Community Project

[NickClapper]

My greatest regret, during my time on IndieTalk, has been my failure to get a community project off the ground. We came pretty close with the organ lottery project, but it never quite worked out. The past few days has seen a new member trying to get another community project off the ground, but is, I suspect, going to fall into a number of inevitable traps.

I am currently studying for the final exams of my academic career (*sob*) so am just sitting in libraries all day, every day. I'd like something to break it up a little bit (in addition to the couple of projects I am, slowly, working on). So I've come up with a new way to do a community project.

If you would like to participate in this project as a director (or in a shooting capacity), I need the following information out of you:

What actors are at your disposal? [i.e. two men and a woman]
What locations are at your disposal? [i.e. a house, a bar, an abandoned quarry]
Can you record decent quality sound? [i.e. yes]

Please be conservative with your responses. In order for this project to be realistic and work, I need to be sure that people can (and will) shoot their scenes in the allocated manner.

Once I have a bunch of participants, I will go away and write a short script that incorporates these various shooting units into a single coherent story. I will ensure that no member has more than a maximum of two days shooting (though generally will try and keep it to what can be done in a single day). If you cannot record decent quality sound, I will give you no dialogue to shoot. Everything will be kept as simple as possible (within the constraints of a very tricky project!) so that we have the maximum chance of success.

Additionally, if you are not willing to direct (or arrange the production of) a shooting unit, there are loads of other roles that are required:

Composer
Editor - individual units should edit their scenes but a central editor will put it all together and try and ensure that the editing matches throughout.
Post-sound
VFX - will not be VFX heavy, but we can incorporate some if there's someone who can supply the talent.
Marketing - with so many cooks, would be great to have someone responsible for pushing the film.

In order to make this attempt as successful as possible, I will only accept forum regulars into the scheme. New members (and I'm talking people who've only been around a few weeks) are welcome to input and help out, but it is of paramount importance that I know people will stick around and see their unit through to completion.

The deadline for signing up is 18th April 2014, giving people two weeks, after which we will allocate two months (and a bit) to complete production of your scenes, meaning a shooting deadline of 30th June 2014. As I have said, should be no more than a day of filming over the course of two months, so if you can't commit to that then please don't!

I really hope this works, and I think it can. Let me know if you have any thoughts and get signing up!

Current units:
David.rhsc (San Francisco, USA)
cheeseandachallenge (Wellington, New Zealand)
Cracker Funk (Richmond, USA)
wheatgrinder
Flicker Pictures (Boston, USA)
mad_hatter (Birmingham, England)
Dreadylocks (Omaha, USA)
Lucky Hardwood (New Orleans, USA)
ChimpPhobiaFilms (Ohio, USA)

Fence-sitting-maybe-merchants:
WalterB
Dreadylocks
sfoster
mad_hatter
ChimpPhobiaFilms
ItDonnedOnMe
jax_rox
Flicker Pictures

Music team
JoshL
mike mcguill

Sound team
mike mcguill

Sound maybes
AudioPostExpert
Alcove Audio

Marketing maybes
RayW

And remember to fill in this form if you want to have a shooting unit in the film!

(Of course, if you're local to an existing unit, why not team up?)

 

[WalterB]

.....

And I'm still interested in knowing if this will be shopped around to short film festivals? Fall/winter of 2014/early 2015?

...................

In The Netherlands I would at least send it to IFFR (International Film Festival Rotterdam), AFFF (Amsterdam Fantastic Film Festival) and NFF (Nederlands Film Festival: aka Dutch Film Festival).
And Newport Beach Film Festival would be fun (my girl's sister lives in that CA area).

(If only we had a unit between New Zealand and Western Europe, we could add a night scene with doomsdaypreppers getting scared by pranking friends.)

 

[NickClapper]

I was thinking that the ufo sighting viral video needed to be shot in and around Mt Hood, but it would be easy enough to account for other sighting locations in the scene where the kid shows how he tracked its vector\trajectory path to where it LANDS in Oregon. So yeah, have the sighting anywhere, in fact we could make it a little contest..

I figured that a rural forest could be imitated pretty much anywhere, but I'd certainly be willing to entertain the notion of having a collage of different videos of the UFO from around the world. Would certainly add credence to the idea of it being taken more seriously than a standard UFO sighting.

Ownership is interesting.

I think that all remote unit producers should retain 100% ownership of the footage they create, however, in order to have your footage included in the film, you must grant NON EXCLUSIVE, NON TRANSFERAL, ROYALTY FREE copyrights to all the other remote unit producers in the project of which the Nick Clapper is one. Any use of the footage must include 100% accreditation. This also extends to the script, Nick will have to grant each of the remote unit producers the same non exclusive, non-transferable copyright to the script.

The spirit of this agreement is that anybody who participates can do anything they want with the final movie, submit to festivals, create their own edit, etc, while simultaneously allowing them to OWN what they produced for any off shoot, sequels or whatever. The non-transferable nature requires that anyone wishing to sell\transfer copyright of some or all of the movie would need to negotiate with those OWNERS of the copyright material directly. So its almost a creative commons license with the commons being defined as just the project participants.

Thoughts?

This sounds very sensible.

We should probably draw up an e-contract, but I think that this would work. This project is being done in the spirit of community, and that's the most important thing.

And, obviously, we need to factor in some sort of part-ownership for those who participate in post-production.

In The Netherlands I would at least send it to IFFR (International Film Festival Rotterdam), AFFF (Amsterdam Fantastic Film Festival) and NFF (Nederlands Film Festival: aka Dutch Film Festival).
And Newport Beach Film Festival would be fun (my girl's sister lives in that CA area).

(If only we had a unit between New Zealand and Western Europe, we could add a night scene with doomsdaypreppers getting scared by pranking friends.)

Why don't we say that everyone who takes part in the project is obliged to send the film to at least one film festival – free or paid – and preferably local to them.

 

[WalterB]

I figured that a rural forest could be imitated pretty much anywhere, but I'd certainly be willing to entertain the notion of having a collage of different videos of the UFO from around the world. Would certainly add credence to the idea of it being taken more seriously than a standard UFO sighting.

Sounds good!
(That makes it possible to turn the doomsdaypreppers into hoax-makers trying to cash in on the hype. If only we had that unit...)
Maybe we only need 1 or 2 in the short itself, but it can be mentioned. Maybe the multiple sightings make it easier for the student to pn point it's location?
And if we make more, we can seed more as marketingtool

This sounds very sensible.

We should probably draw up an e-contract, but I think that this would work. This project is being done in the spirit of community, and that's the most important thing.

And, obviously, we need to factor in some sort of part-ownership for those who participate in post-production.

Why don't we say that everyone who takes part in the project is obliged to send the film to at least one film festival – free or paid – and preferably local to them.

Sounds very sensible to me as well.

 

[NickClapper]

I'm wondering whether we need/should put provision in the contract for who has say over final cut.

Perhaps there should be a system where, if 2/3s of the unit directors and department heads think any particular scene/shot needs reworking or reshooting, then we go with that choice..?

Maybe I'm overcomplicating things, but I'm really impressed with how seriously and practically this is being developed and I think that it has potential to be really good. But, in order to ensure that, I think we need to have some sort of quality control measures in place...

 

[David.rhsc]

Imo, Nick, you should have final cut. Decision by committee is great and all, but if it fails to find consensus then a single benevolent dictator must make the final decision.

 

[wheatgrinder]

Submitting To Festivals:
Requiring all remote units to submit to one local festival is a brilliant idea. If it really comes down to money, then shout out here and we will take a collection and get it submitted.



Final Cut:
I think yes Nick you have final cut over what ever movie you make. One of the intents of my above license proposal was to really make "final cut" a moot point.. If someone doesn't like the edit, they can cut their own version, under a DIFFERENT title!

Which brings out an aspect I hadn't considered. If Nick OWNS the script, then doesn't he have ownership of that particular "title?" If so then Nick has "final cut" of any film with that "title" so that would be the end of it.

Maybe we should treat the "title" as a separate thing so it can by copyrighted\trademarked specifically? Or is it really that big of deal? I feel its overkill.. but..

 

[rayw]

Are we going to fool around w $/£/€3,000 in E&O insurance?
http://www.raindance.co.uk/site/index.php?aid=4182

 

[cheeseandachallenge]

Submitting To Festivals:
Requiring all remote units to submit to one local festival is a brilliant idea. If it really comes down to money, then shout out here and we will take a collection and get it submitted.

There aren't too many festivals in New Zealand. The couple of "big ones" we have are typically exclusive to New Zealand films - so I'll have to do some research to see if they'd take the film. I will submit to as many as I can. The biggest I can think of that might take us is the New Zealand Film Festival (which isn't that much like a festival, really - it travels around cities over a few months spending a few weeks in each city playing a shit tonne of films for the public - but none of the usual awards, or filmmaker Q&A's or meet and greets etc - it'll also be very hard to get into. But we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

Imo, Nick, you should have final cut. Decision by committee is great and all, but if it fails to find consensus then a single benevolent dictator must make the final decision.

I think this is most fair.

 

[rayw]

1. So that we may strategically coordinate with festival submission deadlines, what are our our first and second target completion dates for the final cut?

2. E&O insurance, or no insurance?

3. Distributor insurance (it's a separate thing) will be individual responsibilities?

4. Release forms that will work internationally?

5. What do we wanna call the shell organization for this project (which would be used for future projects)? Global-, Worldwide-, -Collective-, -Cooperative-, -Entertainment, -Productions, -Etc.?


We're missing some good opportunities here for chumming the interest waters.
Soon as I can get a name I can start setting up some stuff.

TY.


International House of Filmmakers, IHoF
International Collective of Filmmakers, ICoF (Sounds like "I cough.")
International Filmmaker's Cooperative, IFC (Pretty sure we should dodge that one.)
Global Filmmaker's Productions
Global Encounters (Sounds like a international "hook-up" organization. )
Pandemic! Productions! (Now I'm just being silly.)
Independent Filmmakers Internationale.
Worldwide Independent Filmmakers Entertainment! (WIFE)
United Filmmakers Org. (UFO)
Independent Filmmakers Unlimited (IFU, I FU ← Not cool Ha!)
International Motion Pictures, Independent Motion Pictures, International Independent Motion Pictures

Worldwide Theatrical Films (WTF)

 

[AudioPostExpert]

A few comments/opinions/suggestions:

1. Opening: I'm going to suggest a revision to the opening, this suggestion is essentially that we don't open the film with the cellphone footage. My reasoning for this is due to first impressions, interpretation and expectation. When we go to the cinema to watch a substantial budget commercial film we have an expectation of a professional level of production quality. If the opening shot is way below that level, we'll assume we're seeing some sort of amateur footage which is part of the story. But, if we submit to amateur film festivals, the production quality expectations are far lower, the impression from the first scene could therefore be; "Oh no, a newbie submitting another crappy UFO/horror short". Maybe whoever is initially viewing the submissions will dump the film before ever getting past the cell footage? Maybe even if it gets to be exhibited, the audience will jump to the same conclusion, first impressions are extremely important! Therefore, maybe the opening shot should be something like: A wide shot of man and Steve, distant but approaching light (+ approaching UFO sound FX) ... man taking cell out of his pocket and Steve unzipping his bag ... maybe a slight zoom into the man's cell and then the cut to the current opening. This introductory shot should obviously be a stable and beautifully cinematic shot so the contrast with the cell footage (+ the cut to mono futz'ed sound) is blatantly obvious. This is all just a suggestion of course!

2. Ownership: I'm not particularly bothered about having any ownership rights if I'm involved, although I'd obviously want to get some financial recompense in the unlikely event of the film making some money. I'm not sure I understood about unit directors being able to re-edit and re-distribute the short, I'm not sure how that would be possible in practice?

Perhaps there should be a system where, if 2/3s of the unit directors and department heads think any particular scene/shot needs reworking or reshooting, then we go with that choice..?

While I think it would be OK to have (for example) a few days for all the unit directors to view and comment on the edit before it's declared "The Locked-off Edit", I think there should be 1 person who ultimately makes the final decisions (that person should be Nick IMHO) and one person who does the editing. I made my case for this back on post #144.

G

 

[David.rhsc]

Agreed on point 1, that all makes sense.

Regarding ownership, I don't see us needing anything more than the ability to freely distribute. I don't forsee us wanting to do a separate cut.

That's essentially 3 votes for Nick having final cut. Seems that motion carries.

Did we land on an editor during earlier discussion? I want to say that a couple folks volunteered to edit?

 

[Jack Lynt]

I don't know. Maybe it's more work or more complication than anyone wants. But as far as ownership etc. goes, I want to ask, what would you do with a typical film production? Maybe you all, all involved, should form one of those LLCs, for instance. And form some kind of production company? Maybe you should try to do some of the usual production things (with which I am barely and only casually familiar).

And yes, share copyright, cool. But in a normal production, it's not like everyone gets final cut, right?

If I were you (folks), I think, I'd try to make this at least sort of like a normal production.

It does occur to me that, while Nick is playing the role of writer and producer, it seems to me, have you considered appointing a producer? Isn't that an important part of the usual production stream?

Might be a pain or an unwanted complication. But it would perhaps be a good, or a more full exercise in the the usual filmmaking process?

Of course, maybe Nick is happy to play the role of producer, as well. But make sure he gets credit for it in the end.

Speaking of which, need I remind anyone that you need to start thinking of, and actually getting (!), this all down on paper, with signatures...the sooner the better?

 

[WalterB]

@APE

I totally get your point 1, but that means immediately showing it is 'real' instead of a hoax.

If we want to not start with cellphone footage, the opening scene shouldn't be the moment they capture the footage, but someone getting pointed to the footage or someone seeing it on YouTube.
The question is: how can we do this naturally?
Does Vern get a call about it?
Or Robin?
They are 2 characters that seem to be on an 'UFO-shortlist'

Just some ideas...
but I don't mind starting the story with the cellphone footage.

Btw, I also think Nick should have final cut.
About copyright: yes, share it plus a free distribution license (after the festivals?) and the right to take parts you worked on to put it in a showreel.

 

[WalterB]

1. So that we may strategically coordinate with festival submission deadlines, what are our our first and second target completion dates for the final cut?

I looked some things up:
shortfilm deadline for IFFR is october 1st
for Imagine Film Festival (formerly known as AFFF): january 1st
for Newport Beach Film Festival: early bird: october, final deadline january.

NFF: july (that means I will submit it in 2015. )

About the name.
Global Movie Experience is a twitteraccount I made for this.
https://twitter.com/GlobalMovieXp

 

[rayw]

Ahem! Over 24hrs later + Views as of this posting: 5,054

1. So that we may strategically coordinate with festival submission deadlines, what are our our first and second target completion dates for the final cut?

Thank you, WalterB for already being on the ball on this one.
Anyone else have some target dates?

2. E&O insurance, or no insurance?

3. Distributor insurance (it's a separate thing) will be individual responsibilities?

4. Release forms that will work internationally?

5. What do we wanna call the shell organization for this project (which would be used for future projects)? Global-, Worldwide-, -Collective-, -Cooperative-, -Entertainment, -Productions, -Etc.?


We're missing some good opportunities here for chumming the interest waters.
Soon as I can get a name I can start setting up some stuff early next week.

TY.

1. Global Movie Experience ← Twitter Account WalterB has already set up.
2. International House of Filmmakers, IHoF
3. International Collective of Filmmakers, ICoF (Sounds like "I cough.")
4. International Filmmaker's Cooperative, IFC (Pretty sure we should dodge that one.)
5. Global Filmmaker's Productions
6. Global Encounters (Sounds like a international "hook-up" organization. )
7. Pandemic! Productions! (Now I'm just being silly.)
8. Independent Filmmakers Internationale.
9. Worldwide Independent Filmmakers Entertainment! (WIFE)
10. United Filmmakers Org. (UFO)
11. Independent Filmmakers Unlimited (IFU, I FU ← Not cool Ha!)
12. International Motion Pictures, Independent Motion Pictures, International Independent Motion Pictures
    
13. Worldwide Theatrical Films (WTF)

 

[NickClapper]

1. What are our our first and second target completion dates for the final cut?

2. E&O insurance, or no insurance?

3. Distributor insurance (it's a separate thing) will be individual responsibilities?

4. Release forms that will work internationally?

5. What do we wanna call the shell organization for this project (which would be used for future projects)? Global-, Worldwide-, -Collective-, -Cooperative-, -Entertainment, -Productions, -Etc.?

1) August 1st sounds a good target to have a rough cut together, then, ideally, a locked edit by 10th August, giving time for sound and music post. How does that sound?

2) I'm inclined to say no E&O. I've never heard of anyone actually having a problem with that, and I don't think there's a stealable (or stolen) idea at the heart of this film.

3) Sure... (unless anyone else has a strong opinion)

4) Let's put together a standardised release form that we can all use in order to make it easier from an organisational perspective. Walter, I'm assuming you'd be fine with the releases being in English? (The Dutch do speak better English than the English, on the whole...)

5) We have the GlobalMovieXP Twitter handle, which is alright. I think it'd be good to come up with something shorter if possible, but not sure how much it'll matter.

 

[rayw]

1. Good.
Mid-August for final video.
Then... mid-September/pre-October for final audio and final-final release?

2. Excellent.
Never heard of anyone needing it for a short, but maybe others know differently.

3. Sold.

4. Super.
Perhaps some of our legal eagles will cobble one or two together.

5. GlobalMovieXP it is.
The name matters because that's often what's going in the URL bar thus what people will first see, and can be used for subsequent projects rather than rebuilding this whole thing all over again should we decide to pursue this as a feature.

Think auto "Make & Model."
We can name the short (model) later - and have a big reveal for it!
In the meanwhile we can start gathering interest with the production company (make) now.

Walter, since you set up the twitter will you please set up Facebook and Google accounts, the latter of which will give us auto access to Google drive, YouTube, and blogger accounts?

I'll start researching some proper interview questions to PM or email to crew members.
Later cast interviews and bio-briefs will be added.
We'll start filling up blogger and Facebook entries with material for family, friends, and interested parties to be notified of as this project progresses.

By the time this thing is ready for local/regional festivals it can be accompanied by a heathy media package including followers - which can increase festival acceptance chances.
Festival organizers are equal whores for attention themselves.

 

[wheatgrinder]

do we have the actual (estimated) page assignments yet? I THINK I know what Im working on, but need confirmation.

 

[WalterB]

@Ray

Twitter 'forced' me to shorten Experience to Xp.
I made a gmail account to set up the Twitter account: I will send you inlogs for both.
(I'm editing 2 projects now, so it will be later today: I have to be at home to get the inlogs.)

@Nick:
English forms are fine!
I guess English is the '2nd language' in The Netherlands; at least for those born in/after the 60's (thanks to pop music and TV)

.....giving time for sound and music post. How does that sound?

.........

LOL

 

[NickClapper]

do we have the actual (estimated) page assignments yet? I THINK I know what Im working on, but need confirmation.

Alien video – ?
San Fran beach – David.rhsc
Richmond art studio – Cracker Funk
Netherlands pyramid – WalterB
Wellington apartment – cheeseandchallenge
Vern in the woods – ?
Oregon cult – Wheatgrinder

We have sfoster, ChimpPhobiaFilms and Lucky Hardwood to assign units to (if they're still keen), but none have spoken up in this thread since the script was posted...