CMOS=Jello Right?

cameronchapman

cameronchapman

I've seen a lot of posts with people who want to upgrade their (usually older or consumer-grade) camcorder to something more professional/pro-sumer level. A lot of these posts mention getting a DSLR, and inevitably those posts turn to the weaknesses of the DSLR, most notably rolling shutter or jello effects, which is caused by the CMOS sensor used in DSLRs (and a lot of other cameras).

Yet I never hear rolling shutter/jello as the reason these people want to upgrade. A lot of consumer-grade camcorders use CMOS sensors (as do a lot of pro-sumer and professional camcorders, including the Red, which has documented rolling shutter artifacts). And yet this argument seems to be used most heavily against DSLRs.

Now, not trying to single anyone out here, but just today I saw a thread about the Canon Vixia HV30 vs. a hacked GH1. The HV30 uses a CMOS sensor, as does the GH1, and yet the poster specifically stated they were worried about jello with the GH1. Have they never experienced jello with the HV30? Am I completely missing something with regard to the CMOS sensors used in camcorders as opposed to the ones used in DSLRs? I have very little experience with camcorders (a Kodak zi8 is probably the most advanced camcorder I've used, and I can tell you now that that thing has the worst jello effect I've ever seen), so I really don't know.

Or is this something that's being used against DSLRs as a way to discredit them, when it really applies to a much larger group of equipment? I sometimes get the feeling that that's the case...:huh:
 
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What SinEater said. The larger the CMOS sensor, the more you can manipulate depth of field, but with potential rolling shutter issues. If you shoot knowing the limitations, you can minimize jello and, also, different manufacturers have better reputations than others on the subject. Panasonic is one of them, I believe.
 
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The smaller size sensor makes sense. I just always hear it discussed like DSLRs are the only cameras with rolling shutter problems. But even the Zi8 (like I said, it's the only camcorder I really have much experience with) has a 1/2.5 sensor (which is 9 times smaller than the micro 4/3 sensor in the GH1) has really severe rolling shutter issues. It's easily compensated for if you use a stabilizer of some kind, but otherwise the footage is pretty much unusable.
 
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cameronchapman said:
The smaller size sensor makes sense. I just always hear it discussed like DSLRs are the only cameras with rolling shutter problems. But even the Zi8 (like I said, it's the only camcorder I really have much experience with) has a 1/2.5 sensor (which is 9 times smaller than the micro 4/3 sensor in the GH1) has really severe rolling shutter issues. It's easily compensated for if you use a stabilizer of some kind, but otherwise the footage is pretty much unusable.
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Keep in mind what the Zi8 is. I have 3 HV40's I use for multicamera wedding ceremonies and use them for other stuff, too, and there is virtually no rolling shutter.

A DSLR can't run for 40 minutes straight.
 
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SinEater said:
Only the Euro version is capped to 30 minutes.
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Ahh.... My apologies for misspeaking. I'm going to seriously look at the GH2 when these wear out. There's no market for them used. I got them before the GH2 came out.

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cameronchapman said:
Now, not trying to single anyone out here, but just today I saw a thread about the Canon Vixia HV30 vs. a hacked GH1.
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:D

cameronchapman said:
The HV30 uses a CMOS sensor, as does the GH1, and yet the poster specifically stated they were worried about jello with the GH1. Have they never experienced jello with the HV30?
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To tell you the truth i have never experienced rolling shutter with my hv30. I never new that the sensor is what causes the rolling shutter. Does that mean that if i dont notice it with my hv30 i wont notice with the gh1?
 
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i saw some videos on youtube where the guy was using his gh1 on a steadicam. He was moving fairly fast turning and everything and i saw no jello-effect. Is that because of the steadicam? or is it that the GH1 doesnt get "jello" as bad as other cams?
 
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CamVader said:
There is anti-rolling shutter software out for one. You never know how the footage you saw was processed.
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This.

Even just the Warp stabilizer in Premiere 5.5 is pretty good. Look around though, ProDad has one that is pretty amazing from the demos I have seen.

Remember also that a steadi-cam rig involves adding lots of weight to the camera sled as well as the counter weight.

I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that part of the reason the RED has less jello issues is that the body starts out weighing 17 lbs. Solidity goes a long way in stabilization.

Even with that, post-stabilization is the big bang for the buck. I want to say that the RED does some level of this in camera as well, but I cannot be certain.
 
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Memory hasn't been serving me right lately, but here goes. I remember reading about the sensor used in at least one of the RED models that was something like 5MP, but didn't skip lines like DSLR's do and had no rolling shutter issues (because it didn't skip lines).

DSLR's skip every 3rd line and that's why you get the jello effect because, when panning, the information at the top of the sensor is read first and by the time it gets to the bottom the image has moved.

Anybody recall RED's not line skipping?
 
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