Client asking too much

R

RED ROBOT

Hello folks.

Certain forum members warned me to walk away from this project , I didn't and here we go , the problems aren't late.


So they told me that I will be shooting a dancing video . The whole dance would be 3 minute long , they could do it 4-5 times to get different angles and everything would be great!

I go there and from 3 minute dance , they tell me it's actually a 19 minute dance and they could do it twice and they have all sorts of weird breaks in between and I lose all sense of whats happening and what's going on .

They changed their plan 20 times before we started shooting , they were changing things at the moment of the production .

I didn't cared as much since I knew I would have creative control when I get into post production and I can just edit it in a way I want since I have enough coverage .

Now , the main dancer tells me there are a couple of things that she really wants to be in the video and I say okey no problem .

I wake up , look at my skype , freaking Harry Potter book . I got like 50 things she wants and they are all different some of them are freaking absurd . She wants me to change the whole background like I can magically key out every single background that it is on the planet .

She tells me all these different dancing moves that she really wants but I don't know what they are, I have absolute no clue what the fuck she is talking about and she can't point me specific dance moves because when we first started out I asked if they want a trailer , a promo . They said YES THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT WE WANT so I shot it in a way that it will be dynamic . it's not the whole video that it is there , I wasn't shooting a freaking documentary!

I said .. I will make you a 1 minute trailer / promo which is dynamic and really fast - paced . Again . They said that this is exactly what they want .

Now they want me to include 3 minute dance , and a 5 minute dance and then a 2 minute dance into the video which means this is no longer a 1 minute promo but some bullshit I would never do .

They keep on changing things and keep on wanting more and more .

What the hell am I suppose to do this is no longer a promo video it's just nonsense .
 
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baoliun said:
are they paying u?
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Yes they are paying me , they paid me about 100 dollars in advance and they should pay me about 450 dollars for all the videos .But looking at it right now , even before getting into editing and the way they are acting it is completely not worth it.
 
I think one of the issues here is that the client doesn't seem to understand what your requirements are as both the cameraman and the editor. Some people think that you can create something out of nothing and that it takes no time at all.

So my question is how much does your client understand about the filming and editing process? Because if she has no idea then the client will just continue to frustrate you.

When is the deadline? Perhaps you could edit the trailer/promo the way in which you would like to edit it while only including the things she wants that you can accomplish with the footage. Then arrange a meeting to show her what you have in order to gain some feedback.
 
PhantomScreenwriter said:
I think one of the issues here is that the client doesn't seem to understand what your requirements are as both the cameraman and the editor. Some people think that you can create something out of nothing and that it takes no time at all.

So my question is how much does your client understand about the filming and editing process? Because if she has no idea then the client will just continue to frustrate you.

When is the deadline? Perhaps you could edit the trailer/promo the way in which you would like to edit it while only including the things she wants that you can accomplish with the footage. Then arrange a meeting to show her what you have in order to gain some feedback.
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Hi.

Yes,she has completely no idea on how filming works so she keeps on asking for more and more absolutely impossible things to do. I made sure to explain her every single thing before we got into production , we were skype talking and I was telling her about what my idea is and what I will do . She said '' thats amazing '' '' thats incredible ! '' and then I show up and they changed everything.

and now , they keep on wanting more and more .
 
Send the list back with comments what can't be done. And what you don't understand.
Also remind her/them that you agreed on a short promo and that you shot it like that.
That they change their mind is not cool. You will have to explain that editing is like being a barber: you can only cut shorter, not longer.

Make something cool to make them stop fantasising about what else would be cool.
 
Hi Red. I have experienced a similar situation before and it is frustrating. The thing I found too is that even when someone appears to be understanding what you're telling them they may not really understand at all.

There has to come a point where you put your foot down with her, not aggressively but just firmly and explain to her that when you agreed to do the work it was based upon the information you were given before production and that's the information you used in your planning for filming.

Since changes are being requested that do not fit in with how you approached the filming in the first place, you cannot add more when there's nothing more you can add.
 
Give them a hundred dollars worth of your effort.
Maybe about six to eight hours of work.


Next time don't be a schmuck of a business person.
  1. Meet with the decision maker.
  2. Sit down.
  3. Discuss the project.
  4. Decision maker tells what he/she wants.
  5. You tell what you can do.
  6. You tell what options are.
  7. Reconsider everyone's wants and capabilities.
  8. WRITE OUT a contract explaining:
  • When you will meet.
  • How long you will shoot.
  • The shots that the decision maker wants.
  • What material is your discretion.
  • How many hours you will edit for.
  • How long the deliverable will be.
  • Cost for the described work.
  • Cost for additional work.

This is not all fun and games until someone loses an eye.
It's work.

Now, if you honestly have nothing better to do than to have these idiots jerk your wank around then gopherit.
Bleed for them until you're dead.

Otherwise, give 'em just what they paid for.
 
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How about finish editing the short promo, show it to them and use people skills to try to convince them that it's enough? Can these people hurt your reputation?
 
WalterB said:
Send the list back with comments what can't be done.
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I personally would never say that I can't do something, unless what is being requested is completely impossible with any of today's technology. Instead, I would say "sure, that's no problem at all", I would then take the first handful or so of the items on the list and cost them out, something like:

1. Background change - Requirement: 2 months VFX/CGI. Additional Fees Payable = $10,000
2. Include dancing move - requirement: x mins additional shooting, x mins editing. Additional Fees Payable = $100 (per move).
3. Etc.

Stop after just a few of the listings and ask them if they want you to provide a quote for all the other additional requests. Either they'll stop with the requests or you'll get paid extra for the extra work but the ball is in their court and they only have two choices. Saying you can't or won't fulfil a request though is likely to make you look incompetent or petulant.

As others have said, by not clearly defining what you were going to provide in a contract, there is the potential for them to reply to your list of quotes and demand you include them as part of the $550 payment. It then becomes an argument of what you agreed to and what they thought they were agreeing to and neither of you have any proof to substantiate your argument. Do you not even have an email or Skype chat history of what you agreed to?

G
 
1. grow some balls
2. do as much as she has asked you that you can actually do, then show her the edit
3. tell her what is and isnt possible and that it would require more time and money to get it right without it looking horrible.
4. if they dont like it, keep the $100 and tell them that its non refundable because its the price to hire out the camera.

if they want the files they must pay an additional $200 as they are now your property and the deal has now changed.

done.
 
AudioPostExpert said:
I personally would never say that I can't do something, unless what is being requested is completely impossible with any of today's technology. Instead, I would say "sure, that's no problem at all", I would then take the first handful or so of the items on the list and cost them out,
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Exactly!

I was told this by the great Tom Savini when I first started my career.

Never say no - say yes and tell them how much it will cost and how
much time it will take.
 
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Thanks to everyone involved in the topic.

It is not so much that I am unable to finish it , actually I am and I think it will turn to a great promo video because this is what they asked for.

But changing things literally every single hour pisses me off big time . I will just do it my way , something I am afraid of is if she says '' Well , I don't like it that way , I am not going to pay '' . I guess that is just what happens when you play stupid and not signing up a contract.
 
RED ROBOT said:
I will just do it my way , something I am afraid of is if she says '' Well , I don't like it that way , I am not going to pay '' .
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That is very likely to happen. Do it your way and disappoint the client
and they don't pay. A valuable lesson, isn't it? From now on you'll get
everything in writing. That won't change a client with unreasonable
expectations, but it will protect your pay.
 
This sort of thing happens all of the time in the software world, it is referred to as "scope creep".

It's up to you as an independent contractor to manage the user expectations. You need to be clear up front, give them a document of what you are going to do, how long it should take, what your hourly cost works out to be.

If they want to add more, you say sure i can do that but it will take X more hours and cost you such and such more money. is that okay or do you want to proceed with the original understanding instead.

In software it will NEVER finish if you allow them to keep adding things.
 
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