Building my own lights

[mad_hatter]

I'm in the possibly enviable position (probably the only only time i'll describe my job as enviable!) to build my own lights, from scratch, to any specification I might choose. But, truth be told, I'm a little stumped as to what I might need.

From your experience, if I'm only going to build one set of lights, what would be my best bet for the best picture quality (assuming I'm shooting on a dslr)? I'll definitely be making them dimming, but what else should I go for?

When lighting a scene, am I right in thinking you set your key light first, then set white balance and exposure in camera, then add the back and fill light as desired?

 

[IndieBudget]

Depends on where and what you are shooting. Daylight 5600k and Tungsten / Incandescent is 3200k you will have balance issues if you have strong areas of mixed light colors. One size ( color temp ) does not fit all, same w/ microphones

 

[directorik]

I'm in the possibly enviable position (probably the only only time i'll describe my job as enviable!) to build my own lights, from scratch, to any specification I might choose. But, truth be told, I'm a little stumped as to what I might need.

From your experience, if I'm only going to build one set of lights, what would be my best bet for the best picture quality (assuming I'm shooting on a dslr)? I'll definitely be making them dimming, but what else should I go for?

You should have one 2,000 watt, two 1,000 watt, four 650 watt
and four 150 watt lights.

When lighting a scene, am I right in thinking you set your key light first, then set white balance and exposure in camera, then add the back and fill light as desired?

That sounds right.

 

[PaulGriffith]

In addition to fixtures, don't forget light stands, c stands, diffusion and gel, soft boxes, reflectors, apple crates, sandbags, stingers, extra bulbs, clamps and all the other little doo-dads needed in a light/grip kit.

Out of curiosity, what's your budget?

 

[mad_hatter]

No budget, but really that's irrelevant. The point is that I can build my lights myself, and they will be free! I can build to any specification I can come up with, with practically no limitations. Of course, I don't want the fittings to be too big and I really don’t want too many of them. I’m only talking for use on micro-budget productions, so I don’t expect things to be perfect for a while.

I’m sure on ‘real’ movie sets they have different lighting for every situation, different times of day (or night), indoors under fluorescent lamps, indoors under tungsten lamps, indoors under LED. Might sound like I’m hoping for too much, but I had hoped to find something that would give reasonable results in a variety of conditions, hence having them dimmable.

Rik, why such high wattages? Is this for outdoor lighting? To get those kinds of wattages, I’d have to be looking at High Pressure Sodium lamps or Metal Halide, and I’d rather avoid those. Of course, I can go ahead and make fitments with 2 / 3 / 4 fluorescent lamps, but size then comes into play. My main concern at the moment is for indoors, in homes or on small sets. What would you use the specific wattages for?

Any thoughts on using LED’s?

 

[chilipie]

I’m sure on ‘real’ movie sets they have different lighting for every situation, different times of day (or night), indoors under fluorescent lamps, indoors under tungsten lamps, indoors under LED. Might sound like I’m hoping for too much, but I had hoped to find something that would give reasonable results in a variety of conditions, hence having them dimmable.

The main distinction between film lighting is the colour temperature - daylight (5600K) or tungsten (3200K) balanced. If you want to dim fluorescent lights you'll need ballasts that are designed to be able to do this. Dimming tungsten lights other than practicals is often not that useful, because of the change in colour temperature - the more you dim it, the more orange it will be.

Rik, why such high wattages? Is this for outdoor lighting? To get those kinds of wattages, I’d have to be looking at High Pressure Sodium lamps or Metal Halide, and I’d rather avoid those. Of course, I can go ahead and make fitments with 2 / 3 / 4 fluorescent lamps, but size then comes into play. My main concern at the moment is for indoors, in homes or on small sets. What would you use the specific wattages for?

Even a 2000W tungsten lamp (which is a fairly common fixture) won't do a huge amount outside, except in close-ups and at dusk/dawn/night. FWIW, HMI lights are much more energy efficient than tungsten-halogen ones, outputting 4-5x more light per watt. If you'll be working on small indoor sets, it's also worth remembering that tungsten-halogen lamps output far more heat than they do light - not an energy-efficient solution. Lastly, if you're in a room with windows shooting during daylight hours, you'll probably need to put daylight gels on any tungsten lights to eliminate the colour difference - this will reduce your lighting output by nearly 2/3rds.

Speaking generally - the big lights may be used as keys or for lighting a room through a window, the 650Ws would be useful fill lights when diffused/bounced, and the 150Ws could be great for backlights/kickers, adding more light to inserts or creating interesting background lighting. As with a lot of lighting techniques, it's not so much what you use as how you use it.

Any thoughts on using LED’s?

If you can source high-quality LEDs with a CRI of 90+ then you'll have a very useful tool in your arsenal, but a lighting kit with only LED lights will not do everything. Arri are working on LED fresnels at the moment which look very interesting, but the current LED lights on the market - while compact and cool-running - do not give you much of a 'punch' lighting-wise.

 

[mad_hatter]

So, I can gel the light to get the correct colour, which naturally reduces their light output, which is the reason for needing high wattages, so there’s at least some usable light?

If I can control the light, i.e. block out daylight, and I light a scene with lights all with the same CCT, say 4000K, am I right in assuming that, so long is there enough light on the scene, I’ll be able to white balance and get a natural looking picture?

In general, LED’s seem to have a CRI of 65+ and a CCT of 6500K, so I don’t think this would be appropriate.

I think I’ll build a set of dimmable fluorescents, using lamps with a CCT of 4000K, and see how they look on video. Best way to learn is to try these things! (Or am I being over-zealous? Will this be a waste of time?)

 

[chilipie]

So, I can gel the light to get the correct colour, which naturally reduces their light output, which is the reason for needing high wattages, so there’s at least some usable light?

If I can control the light, i.e. block out daylight, and I light a scene with lights all with the same CCT, say 4000K, am I right in assuming that, so long is there enough light on the scene, I’ll be able to white balance and get a natural looking picture?

In general, LED’s seem to have a CRI of 65+ and a CCT of 6500K, so I don’t think this would be appropriate.

I think I’ll build a set of dimmable fluorescents, using lamps with a CCT of 4000K, and see how they look on video. Best way to learn is to try these things! (Or am I being over-zealous? Will this be a waste of time?)

Well, the main reason for having high wattages is because that amount of light is often needed, even without colour correction. The best option for shooting in daylight is HMI lights - a 2K tungsten balanced to daylight will output around 600W of light, whereas a 1.2kW HMI will output the equivalent of nearly 5000W of tungsten.

However, as you rightly say, if you can eliminate a certain colour temperature of light then you can white balance to whatever you like and everything will look "normal". I think most professionals tend to pick either tungsten or daylight, and then gel their lights to match. Remember that variations in colour temperature are often what make a scene look more realistic and more interesting - an orange gel on a backlight may sell a sunset scene, for example. If you build your own lights, it'd make sense to pick either 3200K or 5600K as a base and then work other lights in from there. The great thing about fluorescents is that you can easily swap tubes over and change the colour without losing lots of light from conversion gels.

Dimmable fluorescents sounds good - they're fairly compact, cool-running and efficient. Remember that it won't be possible to output hard light with them though, which also makes them less controllable spill-wise.

 

[mad_hatter]

Okay, thanks for all the help Chilli. And thanks to everybody else too, you've been a great help.
I guess i'm about ready to start designing them then!

 

[chilipie]

Okay, thanks for all the help Chilli. And thanks to everybody else too, you've been a great help.
I guess i'm about ready to start designing them then!

Good luck, would love to see any progress/the final result!

 

[directorik]

chilipie answered, but I just wanted to agree.

The lamps and wattage's I suggested are not that high. A 2k makes
a nice key light indoors and (as chilipie mentioned) is fairly
useless outside except for fill.

The lights I mentioned are the lights I own for my small micro-
budget productions. The eleven lights give you a lot of
versatility and makes a micro-budget production look so much
better than most. You won’t use all eleven on each set up, but
having the extra lamps available can be a major advantage when you
do need it.

There is a false belief that when using video (especially the
DSLR’s) lighting can be less because they shoot so well in low
light. You can get a image, but to get a good image lighting is
very important.

It’s amazing what an extra hair light can do; what a 650 and a bit
of blackwrap throwing a shadow on the background can do; what a 1k
outside a window can do.

To get those kinds of wattage's, I’d have to be looking at High Pressure Sodium lamps or Metal Halide, and I’d rather avoid those.

Interesting. I own 2k and 1k lights that are neither. What is the
highest wattage you want to use?

Any thoughts on using LED’s?

Can you build LED panels like Arri’s BroadCaster DMX and the ones
from Litepanels? Those are amazing and not cheap.

Can you make extras? I'll buy some...

 

[mad_hatter]

I know you can get higher wattage lights that aren't sodium or metal halide, but unfortunately those aren't available to me in the arsenal I have to work with! I suppose I could buy the lamps and lamp holders and fit them into a custom fitment, but that'll cost money, something I'm trying to avoid right now!

I think now I'm going to look at building something using 2 x 450W fluorescents for key lighting. That should give me similar light output as a 1kW.

Looking at the Arri led panel, I can't do that. Too clever for me! The one's on the Litepanel site however, that's a possibility!

 

[directorik]

I know you can get higher wattage lights that aren't sodium or metal halide, but unfortunately those aren't available to me in the arsenal I have to work with! I suppose I could buy the lamps and lamp holders and fit them into a custom fitment, but that'll cost money, something I'm trying to avoid right now!

Ahhhh! That changes everything. You didn't mention that you
have restrictions. And budget IS relevant.

So you can build your own lights, from scratch, to any specification
I might choose except you a limited to the lamps you can use. In
that case my suggestion would be to built at least six and as many
as ten lights of different wattages to create a versatile a kit as you
can.

You should have as large a key light as you can. At least two lights
for fill, at least one for backlight and two for background. That's six.
If you can, build one more for backlight, two more for fill and another
large one for an additional key light. That would make a kit that will
handle just about every situation you find yourself in. From a small
bedroom or bathroom to a kitchen and living room combo.

I look forward to seeing the pictures of these lights you build.

 

[knightly]

If limited by heat to fixtures of 100 watts or less, make a single head with 5-6 fixtures mounted on it... this will garner a 500-600 watt light for you... heat will still be an issue with it, but it'll throw enough light to work as a key and be able to take a dimmer (harbor freight tools, router speed control) that can make it a variable wattage light for you. 2 of those and a couple 2-3 light fixtures will get you most of what you need.

 

[mad_hatter]

Yeah, I suppose I should have been slightly more specific on the possibilities. Essentially, my job allows me access to all sorts of lighting gear. But most of it is commercial (fluorescent) and industrial (bulkhead, floodlighting). And I guess budget is relevant, in that I don’t particularly want to spend a penny!

So, if I go fluorescent, make a good number of them, go as high wattage as possible, dimmable, use lamps of all the same CCT, I should be good to go?

Sounds good to me!

 

[chilipie]

Yeah, I suppose I should have been slightly more specific on the possibilities. Essentially, my job allows me access to all sorts of lighting gear. But most of it is commercial (fluorescent) and industrial (bulkhead, floodlighting). And I guess budget is relevant, in that I don’t particularly want to spend a penny!

So, if I go fluorescent, make a good number of them, go as high wattage as possible, dimmable, use lamps of all the same CCT, I should be good to go?

Sounds good to me!

It won't do everything you'll need from a lighting kit, but it's a very good start. If you could find a way of bringing cheap, KinoFlo-style fluorescents to market I'd bet you'd have more than a few keen customers in the indie world…

 

[knightly]

With fluorescents, you want really good balasts too! other wise there will be a bunch of buzzing in your audio and color shift in your picture. Even then, there'll probably be some buzzing.

 

[directorik]

With fluorescents, you want really good balasts too! other wise there will be a bunch of buzzing in your audio and color shift in your picture. Even then, there'll probably be some buzzing.

Yep, that's the issue with fluorescents. Especially when on a
dimmer. The ballast buzzes like mad. Fluorescents usually don't
make good key lights or hair lights and you can't really get a
good, harsh shadow on a background with them so having only
fluorescents doesn't make a good kit.

But considering your restrictions making a few fluorescent fixtures
is a great start. Add a couple of floodlights and that will make a
difference.

 

[polfilmblog]

There are two designs I liked, that you may want to check out. One is Woodylight, and the other used some kind of baking tins configuration with the wires trapped between two rectangular aluminum tins. I don't have the links, but Woodylights has a website.

 

[mad_hatter]

I don't think buzzing or flicker should be an issue, but I guess I'll have to try it.

You've obviously got more experience working under fluorescents, so I'm sure you know what you're talking about. But, I was in New York in December and inoticed that a lot of their fluorescents still seem to be fitted with T12 lamps, which must be running from wire-wound ballasts. I don't know if that's the standard for the USA, but that would create all sorts of buzzing and flicker issues.

Here in the UK, T5 lamps and electronic ballasts are the norm. They're much more efficient, they run cooler and they are (theoretically) flicker free. We'll have to see how they look on video! Nobody here uses T12 anymore!