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Audio and camera syncing

A

Audioslave74

Hey,

I will be recording audio for a low budget documentary film that will be shot in the jungle. I will be using a Sound Devices 788 and need to sync to an Red Epic camera. Any suggestions on how to do this? I prefer not to be connected to the camera via a cable, since I will be the boom operator as well, and since the whole rig has to be fully mobile.

Have anyone any experience from digital clappers, the kind you have in your iPhone? Would using a clapper suffice, or do I need tc as well?

Thanks!

Best,
Max
 
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you can do it easily by just clapping your hands and stating what take etc then you can use the high frequency from the clap to sync up and the stating of take will make it faster to find which shot it goes with
 
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Then you use a wireless digital slate to sync the RED and the 788T. If you can afford that level of equipment the extra cost shouldn't be a burden, especially if you rent. Syncing in post should be extremely easy since the video and audio will share the TC/sync metadata.

If that is not an option you do the usual - use a US$30 dry-erase slate, verbally slate the takes and sync using PluralEyes or something similar. If your slates and logs are detailed and accurate you don't even really need PluralEyes; syncing is tedious but not difficult.

Are you using the SD 664 mixer or the the CL-8 Controller? Or a Wendt, or a...? And what is your mic and wireless lav selection?

Oh, and why ask here? Why not on Jeff Wexlers site? Those are the guys who really know this stuff!!!
 
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One of these plain old puppies:
Clapboard-Pro.jpg


You do need a slate - The only way you can record a guide track on an Epic is to tether to the camera, so you will need a slate. You do not need timecode, and in fact I'd say the complications of running TC as well are unnecessary for a limited person, low-budget crew.

I assume there'll be some sort of camera crew that can slate. I wouldn't be relying on my iPhone.
 
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I have only seen the name PluralEyes. What is it? Found the website, but it didn't say much to a newbie. Would that software be my editing software, or something I only use to sync in post?

escher said:
PluralEyes does an excellent job of syncing audio. As for slate apps, there's one simply called MovieSlate that gets fits the bill.
Click to expand...
 
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What digital wireless slates are around? Is a slate and a clap the same thing? How do these wireless stuff work in the jungle with no wifi around? Or do they need a transmitter and receiver?

Where can I buy a dry-slate?

I will not be using any mixer at all. I will have a boom with a MKH460 and two or three wireless DPA 4060 lavs that will go straight into the 788.

Sorry for being a newbie, but who is Jeff Wexler? The jwsound forum? On there as well! :) Thanks!

Alcove Audio said:
Then you use a wireless digital slate to sync the RED and the 788T. If you can afford that level of equipment the extra cost shouldn't be a burden, especially if you rent. Syncing in post should be extremely easy since the video and audio will share the TC/sync metadata.

If that is not an option you do the usual - use a US$30 dry-erase slate, verbally slate the takes and sync using PluralEyes or something similar. If your slates and logs are detailed and accurate you don't even really need PluralEyes; syncing is tedious but not difficult.

Are you using the SD 664 mixer or the the CL-8 Controller? Or a Wendt, or a...? And what is your mic and wireless lav selection?

Oh, and why ask here? Why not on Jeff Wexlers site? Those are the guys who really know this stuff!!!
Click to expand...
 
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This is kind of the answer I am hoping for. :) Thanks!

jax_rox said:
One of these plain old puppies:
Clapboard-Pro.jpg


You do need a slate - The only way you can record a guide track on an Epic is to tether to the camera, so you will need a slate. You do not need timecode, and in fact I'd say the complications of running TC as well are unnecessary for a limited person, low-budget crew.

I assume there'll be some sort of camera crew that can slate. I wouldn't be relying on my iPhone.
Click to expand...
 
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Audioslave74 said:
I have only seen the name PluralEyes. What is it? Found the website, but it didn't say much to a newbie. Would that software be my editing software, or something I only use to sync in post?
Click to expand...

What it does is automatically synch externally-recorded audio with the camera's audio track. Then you mute the camera's audio and use the external audio.
 
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PluralEyes isn't an option as the Epic has no guide track unless you tether your recorder to it with a long cable.

You can pick up a dumb slate from any good film supplies store, or even eBay. I wouldn't be relying on iPhones or iPads in the jungle - they're horrible to slate with even with somewhere to charge them.

What you can do, is get a device like a ClockIt:
va-hire-Clockit-Controller-ACC-501.jpg


And sync the TC of the Epic with the TC of the 788t. This also means that you'll be having to check and re-check timecode (I'd suggest re-syncing at least once every hour).

My personal preference would be to merely use the dumb slate. It's the cheapest, easiest and least prone to screw up. If you're using Epic, you're most likely to have a 2nd AC or at least a Data Wrangler/DIT who can slate for you.
 
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Keep in mind, when recording with EPIC, there is no guide track. There's a nifty tool every EPIC owner should have that's called the A-Box. Made by woodencamera and gives you two XLR's on your EPIC for sound.

My suggestion is to either Timecode jam camera and recorder and repeat this every 30 mins to hour and check it's still on time or just use a slate. Not a TC slate, but a dumb slate. Just use the clap on audio to sync with the visual of the clapper hitting the board!
 
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Phil_UK said:
There's a nifty tool every EPIC owner should have that's called the A-Box. Made by woodencamera and gives you two XLR's on your EPIC for sound.
Click to expand...

I don't really see it's use, as most of the time if you're using EPIC you'd be slating anyway. I've never known of anyone sending any audio to an EPIC, let alone simply a guide track for syncing. Slateing is better and easier.
 
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Audioslave74 said:
What digital wireless slates are around?
Click to expand...

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...ng_ACD301RF_ACD_301RF_Master_Radio_Slate.html

Audioslave74 said:
How do these wireless stuff work in the jungle with no wifi around? Or do they need a transmitter and receiver?
Click to expand...

You use a dedicated transmitter/receiver system.

Audioslave74 said:
Is a slate and a clap the same thing?
Click to expand...

Yup.

Audioslave74 said:
Where can I buy a dry-slate?
Click to expand...

B&H or Amazon, or most any reputable video/film/audio vendor.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/725696-REG/Pearstone_SADC_911_SADC_911_Acrylic_Dry_Erase.html
http://www.amazon.com/Pearstone-Acr...TF8&qid=1357089116&sr=8-1&keywords=film+slate

BTW, I did mention that you could get and use one in my post.

... you do the usual - use a US$30 dry-erase slate, verbally slate the takes...
Click to expand...


Audioslave74 said:
Sorry for being a newbie, but who is Jeff Wexler? The jwsound forum? On there as well! :) Thanks!
Click to expand...

Yup, http://jwsoundgroup.net/index.php?

If you ask over there (or did you?) they will all probably suggest that you use a mixer or at least the CL-8 controller.

BTW, you can and should mount a cheap mic (like the Audio-Technica AT875 or MXL FR-330M) on the camera to use for the audio sync; especially of you are not going to use TC sync.

Make sure that you have a very large supply of those acrylic drying packets for when you pack up the mic and lavs; the humid atmosphere of the jungle will corrode them to junk in a hurry.
 
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jax_rox said:
I don't really see it's use, as most of the time if you're using EPIC you'd be slating anyway. I've never known of anyone sending any audio to an EPIC, let alone simply a guide track for syncing. Slateing is better and easier.
Click to expand...

I know exactly where you're coming from. I've shot with EPIC many times and never used the A-Box, except for once. It's still nice to have the guide track.. Doesn't really hurt you either..
 
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Phil_UK said:
I know exactly where you're coming from. I've shot with EPIC many times and never used the A-Box, except for once. It's still nice to have the guide track.. Doesn't really hurt you either..
Click to expand...

It's like a Beachtek for your Epic ;)

If you're recording dual system anyway (and on an Epic you probably are), I'd save myself the $200 and the hassle of tethering, considering you're going to trash that audio track straight away anyway.
 
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Thanks! Lots of helpful info here.

I read in Ric Viers book that you should avoid syncing audio to the camera audio, since there will be a time difference between the boom and the camera? This is why a slate seems like a good option.

Alcove Audio said:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...ng_ACD301RF_ACD_301RF_Master_Radio_Slate.html



You use a dedicated transmitter/receiver system.



Yup.



B&H or Amazon, or most any reputable video/film/audio vendor.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/725696-REG/Pearstone_SADC_911_SADC_911_Acrylic_Dry_Erase.html
http://www.amazon.com/Pearstone-Acr...TF8&qid=1357089116&sr=8-1&keywords=film+slate

BTW, I did mention that you could get and use one in my post.






Yup, http://jwsoundgroup.net/index.php?

If you ask over there (or did you?) they will all probably suggest that you use a mixer or at least the CL-8 controller.

BTW, you can and should mount a cheap mic (like the Audio-Technica AT875 or MXL FR-330M) on the camera to use for the audio sync; especially of you are not going to use TC sync.

Make sure that you have a very large supply of those acrylic drying packets for when you pack up the mic and lavs; the humid atmosphere of the jungle will corrode them to junk in a hurry.
Click to expand...
 
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