are US low budget indie features at a disadvantage?

F

fantomette

Lets take Berlinale for example...

Forget about the competition section as it is mostly for studios, big budgets and stars.

panormama 2013:

Panorama fictional films

Boven is het stil (It's all so Quiet) - Netherlands/Germany
By Nanouk Leopold
With Jeroen Willems, Henri Garcin, Wim Opbrouck, Martijn Lakemeier
World Premiere

Burn it up Djassa – Ivory Coast/France
By Lonesome Solo
With Abdoul Karim Konaté, Adelaïde Ouattara, Mamadou Diomandé, Souleymane Bamba
European Premiere

Concussion - USA
By Stacie Passon
With Robin Weigert, Maggie Siff, Emily Kinney, Daniel London, Ben Shenkman
International Premiere

Hayatboyu (Lifelong) - Turkey, Germany, Netherlands
By Asli Ozge
With Defne Halman, Hakan Çimenser
World Premiere

Interior. Leather Bar. - USA
By Travis Mathews, James Franco
With Val Lauren, Christian Patrick, James Franco
International Premiere

Kai PO Che - India
By Abhishek Kapoor
With Sushant Singh Rajput, Raj Kumar, Amit Sadh, Amrita Puri
World Premiere

Lose Your Head - Germany
By Stefan Westerwelle, Patrick Schuckmann
With Fernando Tielve, Marko Mandić, Sesede Terziyan, Stavros Yagulis, Samia Chancrin
World Premiere

Maladies - USA
By Carter
With James Franco, Catherine Keener, David Strathairn, Fallon Goodson, Vince Jolivette
World Premiere

Mes séances de lutte (Love Battles) - France
By Jacques Doillon
With Sara Forestier, James Thiérrée
World Premiere

Reaching for the Moon - Brazil
By Bruno Barreto
With Miranda Otto, Gloria Pires, Tracy Middendorf
World Premiere

Soğuk (Cold) - Turkey
By Uğur Yücel
With Cenk Alibeyoğlu, A. Rıfat Şungar, Valeria Skorohodova, Yulia Vaniukova, Yulia Erenler, Şebnem Bozoklu, Ezgi Mola
World Premiere

Something in the Way - Indonesia
By Teddy Soeriaatmadja
With Reza Rahadian, Ratu Felisha, Verdi Solaiman
World Premiere

Upstream Color - USA
By Shane Carruth
With Amy Seimetz, Shane Carruth, Andrew Sensenig, Thiago Martins, Kathy Carruth
International Premiere

Will You Still Love Me Tomorrow? - Taiwan
By Arvin Chen
With Richie Jen, Mavis Fan, Stone, Kimi Hsia, Lawrence Ko
World Premiere

Workers - Mexico/Germany
By José Luis Valle
With Susana Salazar, Jesús Padilla
World Premiere

Youth - Israel/Germany
By Tom Shoval
With Eitan Cunio, David Cunio, Moshe Ivgy, Gita Amely, Shirili Deshe
World Premiere
 
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So the USA Films

1. Concussion : premiered at Sundance
2. A James Franco movie
3. another James Franco movie
4. Upstream color : Sundance


The rest are international.. so .. what are the odds of a US Indie ( whose not named James Franco & didnt premiere at Sundance) to get a shot at Berlin
 
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Basma Alsharif Farther than the Eye Can See (United Arab Emirates / Lebanon)
Pilar Alvarez Arturo (Cuba)
Sandy Amerio Dragooned (France)
Joshua Bonnetta Remanence I – (Lost, Lost, Lost, Lost) (Canada)
Lonnie van Brummelen / Siebren de Haan View from the Acropolis (The Netherlands)
Lucien Castaing-Taylor / Véréna Paravel Leviathan (USA/France/United Kingdom)
Filipa César Cuba (France)
Ali Cherri Pipe Dreams (Lebanon/France)
Octavio Cortázar Por primera vez (Cuba)
Paul Geday / Attiyat El Abnoudi El Cafeteria (Egypt)
Richard Foreman Once Every Day (USA)
Malak Helmy Records from the Excited State – Chapter 3 (Egypt)
Philip Hoffman Lessons in Process (Cuba/Canada)
James T. Hong Cutaways of Jiang Chun Gen – Forward and Back Again (Taiwan/USA)
Daniel Kötter Bühne (Germany)
Armando Lulaj Never (Albania)
Babette Mangolte Edward Krasiński’s Studio (USA)
Isabelle Prim Lunch with Gertrude Stein (France)
Lucy Raven RP31 (USA)
James Richards Not Blacking Out, Just Turning The Lights Off (United Kingdom)
Till Roeskens / Marie Bouts Un Archipel (France)
Isabella Rossellini Mammas (USA/Germany/France)
Constanze Ruhm / Christine Lang Kalte Probe (Austria/Germany)
Lior Shamriz The Runaway Troupe of the Cartesian Theater (Germany/China)
Shelly Silver Frog Spider Hand Horse House (USA)
J.P. Sniadecki / Huang Xiang / Xu Ruotao Yumen (USA/China)
Björn Speidel Blinder Fleck (Germany)
Marta Popivoda Yugoslavia, How Ideology Moved our Collective Body (Germany France/Serbia)
Clara Wieck / Ginan Seidl Rotation (Germany)
Florian Zeyfang / Alex Schmoeger / Lisa Schmidt-Colinet Microbrigades – Variations of a Story (Germany)
 
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USA Movies

Once everyday: wow actually an indie! but no info... is it experimental artwork or a feature? premiered at NY

RP31: indie but a short

Edward Krasinski's Studio : a short

Frog Spider Hand Horse House: short-ish ( 49 min )

the lst one is a doc
 
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The entry fee is € 150


so... next time you submit... try to get your movie be from another country to have a shot... otherwise take that 150 and spend it on a nice trashcan to just throw your film in
 
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I didn't see Hide Your Smiling Faces on your lists. I'm pretty sure it world premiered at Berlinale in 2013 and was a very low budget US indie film by a first time director. Then went on to a US premier at Tribeca.

But still it doesn't surprise me that US films have a "disadvantage" because Berlinale is not a US festival. In most US festivals every single other country is competing for a slot in the World category, while the rest of the films on the program were made in America. Sounds like a similar disadvantage to me.
 
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I come from Argentina, and if you knew how hard it is just to get a super low-budget indie movie done, you wouldn't being complaining. I don't mean that it's easier in the states, because, of course, you don't get James Franco for your movie every day, but I just think that what it takes to get that level of production is what in many many other countries you need just to get a micro-budget indie movie done. Is a hard industry everywhere, but it's not unfair, really hard working people get their reward sooner or later!
 
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sfoster said:
What exactly makes it harder in argentina than in maryland, usa?
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the economic situation? if you don't get any support from abroad you'll never reach $200k for a movie, and the fact that you have to look for the money in other countries makes it almost impossible. Then if you get it, hardly you will find good screenwriters, producers, assistants, PD'S, not even good runners! And if you succeeded with that, then I'm sure you wouldn't find good and advanced equipment.

I think that the effort that you need to get a 200k movie in argentina is what you need to get a 2m in us or something like that
 
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maxkissero said:
the economic situation? if you don't get any support from abroad you'll never reach $200k for a movie, and the fact that you have to look for the money in other countries makes it almost impossible. Then if you get it, hardly you will find good screenwriters, producers, assistants, PD'S, not even good runners! And if you succeeded with that, then I'm sure you wouldn't find good and advanced equipment.

I think that the effort that you need to get a 200k movie in argentina is what you need to get a 2m in us or something like that
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I think a lot of what you said is true for us too outside of NY or LA, but also consider that none of us on this board are even dreaming about getting a 200k budget. our aspirations are more like .. 25,000

but I understand where you're coming from and i think you're right. thanks for the insight
 
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I think that the effort that you need to get a 200k movie in argentina is what you need to get a 2m in us or something like that
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It's not the effort that makes a difference. Getting film finance is hard everywhere. How hard depends on how you put together the package for investors.

Then if you get it, hardly you will find good screenwriters, producers, assistants, PD'S, not even good runners! And if you succeeded with that, then I'm sure you wouldn't find good and advanced equipment.
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Isn't that a problem that needs to be sorted before you get finance? It may be the reason that finance is hard to get in the first place? Investors tend not to like the answer, "Give us the money and we'll work out if we get good people"

Why put together a project if you don't already have a great script, or at a dead minimum, a great outline for one.
 
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maxkissero said:
I come from Argentina, and if you knew how hard it is just to get a super low-budget indie movie done, you wouldn't being complaining. I don't mean that it's easier in the states, because, of course, you don't get James Franco for your movie every day, but I just think that what it takes to get that level of production is what in many many other countries you need just to get a micro-budget indie movie done. Is a hard industry everywhere, but it's not unfair, really hard working people get their reward sooner or later!
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My point is about fest chances for a no studio self funded Indy in the premiere festivals are v v v slim.....

the us market is flooded with big budget indies and celebrity pet projects.

So let's say x fest has 10 spots for us movies... They invite a certain number of sundance movies ..then a few spots go to James Franco... Then whatever studio umbrella project takes another spot. Why would they even bother watching the us blind submissions? The spots are already fillled at this point.

a 20k budget under a non us country of production may have a chance... If they take a few movies from each country who wants to compete against the studios & James Franco ?
 
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sfoster said:
I think a lot of what you said is true for us too outside of NY or LA, but also consider that none of us on this board are even dreaming about getting a 200k budget. our aspirations are more like .. 25,000

but I understand where you're coming from and i think you're right. thanks for the insight
Click to expand...

I guess the grass is always greener... I always envy the state sponsorship of art and film in other countries that allows different voices to be heard ...

But as a rogue no budget filmmaker, Hollywood and ny are the last place u want to be. Everyone expects a cut here, u can't get away without permits and insurances which can eat up all the budget.

We were shooting in my own apartment once and the building security stopped us when they saw a camera through the curtains. Permit or ticket. Even the crappiest dumps want u to pay-

Meanwhile in France I was able to get all kinds of locations for free... They don't have that over saturation of projects and money being thrown around by studios. Every store owner, ranger, police officer, is on the lookout for guerrilla filmmakers in l.a., it's their cash cow
 
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fantomette said:
But as a rogue no budget filmmaker, Hollywood and ny are the last place u want to be. Everyone expects a cut here, u can't get away without permits and insurances which can eat up all the budget.

We were shooting in my own apartment once and the building security stopped us when they saw a camera through the curtains. Permit or ticket. Even the crappiest dumps want u to pay-
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I had the opposite experience with my feature film in Los Angeles. We shot on beaches, busy sidewalks, in the streets, public parks, etc. and didn't get hassled even once. Only paid for one location, which ended up being pretty expensive, but it was a beautiful bookstore that couldn't be recreated so it was worth it.

I think the trick is just keeping your crew miniscule. We never had more than 4 people grouped together when a scene was being shot.
 
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moonshieldmedia said:
I had the opposite experience with my feature film in Los Angeles. We shot on beaches, busy sidewalks, in the streets, public parks, etc. and didn't get hassled even once. Only paid for one location, which ended up being pretty expensive, but it was a beautiful bookstore that couldn't be recreated so it was worth it.

I think the trick is just keeping your crew miniscule. We never had more than 4 people grouped together when a scene was being shot.
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good for you!!

we've had a string of terrible luck getting rolled on. We even got ticketed on hollywood blv for shooting even though we had paid for permit and insurance!! the cop didnt bother to ask us and left the ticket with the boom mike guy as we were shooting. we had to show proof and got refunded bu still its so frustrating.

we usually have a v v small crew when permitless too..
 
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another example

cannes, the section for first time feature directors...

2013 lineup
Feature Films
The Dismantlement (Le Démantèlement) Sébastien Pilote (Canada)
Los Dueños Agustín Toscano & Ezequiel Radusky (Argentina)
For Those in Peril Paul Wright (UK)
The Lunchbox (Dabba) Ritesh Batra (India/France/Germany)
The Major Yury Bykov (Russia)
Nos héros sont morts ce soir David Perrault (France)
Salvo Fabio Grassadonia & Antonio Piazza (Italy/France)

2012 lineup
Aquí y allá Antonio Méndez Esparza (Spain/USA/Mexico)
Au galop (In a Rush) Louis-Do de Lencquesaing (France)
Les Voisins de Dieu Meni Yaesh (Israel/France)
Hors les murs (Beyond the Walls) David Lambert (Belgium/Canada/France)
Peddlers Vasan Bala (India)
Los Salvajes Alejandro Fadel (Argentina)
Sofia’s Last Ambulance Ilian Metev (Germany/Bulgary/Croatia)

2011
Feature films
Las Acacias Pablo Giorgelli (Argentina/Spain)
Avé Konstantin Bojanov (Bulgaria/France)
17 filles (17 Girls) Delphine and Muriel Coulin (France)
Sauna on Moon Zou Peng (China)
The Slut (Hanotenet) Hagar Ben Asher (Israel/Germany)
Snowtown (Les Crimes de Snowtown) Justin Kurzel (Australia)
Take Shelter Jeff Nichols (USA)
 
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You'd have a better shot submitting to the cannes director's fortnight. They screen more first time directors.

For the main Cannes festival, it really shouldn't be a surprise that new directors aren't getting their low budget films in. Filmmaking is a skill that takes experience to perfect. On average an experienced director is most likely going to make a better film than someone fresh out of the gate. AND name actors are going to be more likely to star in films made by experienced filmmakers that are known for their good work. PLUS financiers are more likely to fund films by those filmmakers.

My point is, there's no use in analyzing the numbers that way, because the outcome is obvious. You should only submit to the big festivals for these 2 reasons:

1. You somehow made a truly unique and great film that is sure to catch peoples attention. You can clearly see that your film fits in with the caliber of films that the festival tends to screen, even though you probably don't have name actors or a budget, but it doesn't matter because your film is brilliant. You must be extremely talented or lucky, congrats on your new career!

2. You made a mediocre film. The production quality is lacking a bit and the low budget shows in your work, BUT your story is very solid and your friends/family/cast/crew love it. You're feeling lucky and you've got some money to burn on a long shot. Good luck to you, may you be one of the few who slips through the backdoor of that festival lineup! If not, at least you can say you donated some money to an organization that helps indie film flourish.
 
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