Archival footage and fair use

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pacey1800

I've posted some of the short films I've made here, completely comprised of archival footage and images. I have considered making longer-form documentaries with original footage that I plan to shoot myself (interviews, etc.) However, since the rights fees for footage are so high, I have considered using the Fair Use doctrine as a justification for using various archival footage in whatever film I go on to make. Of course, this footage would not be used in a negative light or to slander anyone, rather it would be used to supplement the documentary and to add context to the subject of the documentary.

I am literally working on no budget at all, and I don't have the money to pay for archival footage, I can't pay hundreds or thousands of dollars for even a few seconds. I have a lot of footage of sporting events from my personal tapes and of other things. What I would like to know is this: even if I were to use a few seconds or even a few minutes of footage, and even if I was not using it to put anyone in a negative light, could I claim fair use? I have so much stuff on DVDs I recorded myself and DVDs converted from old VHS tapes. I'm not trying to break the law here, it's just that I don't want to feel like I have to spend a fortune on rights to footage that could have been better spent in overall production.

One final question, and this may sound rather silly, but on the films that I did show here and link to from my Youtube page, even if the footage is public domain or copyrighted or if any images are copyrighted, should I still go about copyrighting the films themselves? I ask mainly because I am considering submitting some of them to film festivals in the near future and I don't know if copyrighting them is a requirement. It probably is, but I'm just not sure. Anyway, any suggestions are welcome. Thanks.
 
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pacey1800 said:
What I would like to know is this: even if I were to use a few seconds or even a few minutes of footage, and even if I was not using it to put anyone in a negative light, could I claim fair use?
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Not really. Public exhibition and re-distribution of copyrighted material without permission is specifically illegal. Will they go after you? Maybe, maybe not. All I can say is that what you intend to do is NOT covered by fair use laws.


pacey1800 said:
One final question, and this may sound rather silly, but on the films that I did show here and link to from my Youtube page, even if the footage is public domain or copyrighted or if any images are copyrighted, should I still go about copyrighting the films themselves?
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Sure, but it's just further evidence that you violated someone else's copyright. You will be negating your own copyright by doing so, but it protects what you do own and have shot yourself.
 
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pacey1800 said:
Maybe I should just give up. I don't know.
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Just who do you think you are... the ex-gov of Alaska, or what?!
smiley_colbert.gif


There is no problem that you face, as a filmmaker, that cannot be resolved somehow... unless you flat-out quit. There might be compromises, settling for next-best, fudging a few things here & there - but if you really have a story to tell, you'll find a way.

even if the footage is public domain or copyrighted or if any images are copyrighted, should I still go about copyrighting the films themselves?
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If the footage is genuinely Public Domain, then that's something you don't need to worry about.

I suspect that there's a lot more PD material out there than you suspect, btw. :)
 
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LOL! :lol: :haha: ;)

I know. I realize that I might have to make compromises here and there, but I just don't want to worry about anything. It's just that right now, I am not made of money. I don't have hundreds or thousands to spend on footage. In no way am I trying to make any kind of excuses, but when I checked out one of the "royalty-free" footage websites that was linked to in an issue of MovieMaker Magazine that I picked up tonight, a single piece of footage, regardless of length, costs almost $400.

The problem is is that I don't really know what to use, and I feel like I can only use footage from the '50s or before that. I'm honestly afraid of copyrighting even those two short experimental films I made and showed here because of what Sonnyboo said. This always seems to happen to me, that someone always comes up with a reason why I can't do something, and it just makes me so mad. I mean, I'm not trying to break the law or do anything I shouldn't be doing.

I did read, while I was doing a Google search on this subject, an article written by the producers of a film called "Bigger, Stronger, Faster*", a recent documentary about the rise of performance-enhancing steroid use in America among young people and how that lifestyle was popularized by movie stars and pro wrestlers. What they did was that they hired an attorney who was an expert in fair use, and she dictated to them what clips could and could not be used (for example, they wanted to use the clip from "Top Gun" when they say 'I feel the need...for speed!' and they were told not to because they would not only have to get a license from the studio, but also pay Tom Cruise and the other actors) and all of the archival footage came either from off-air VHS recordings or Youtube clips. The only times that they did pay for footage was when it came time to finish the film, convert the footage to HD, and it was absolutely necessary to have a high quality master of a particular piece of footage. The article is here, if anyone wants to read it:

http://www.donaldsoncallif.com/press/producers-of-bigger-stronger-faster-talk-fair-use/

So basically, would that be the best way to go, by hiring an attorney early on? Also, does anyone here have any suggestions on where to find affordable footage, even if I have to pay a small fee? Again, I'm sorry if I feel down or anything, I just got really discouraged by what Sonnyboo had to say and it felt like there was just no way to get done what I wanted to do. Thanks, Steve.
 
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Honestly, even if I were to use public domain footage, I bet it would still be impossible to make anything. Right now I'm just so frustrated, it's like I have to be a millionaire to even attempt to make a film of ANY kind, fiction or non-fiction.
 
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pacey1800 said:
Sorry I asked.
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Why?

Every single person who has responded so far has had quite valuable insight & opinion, freely given. Some more verbose than others, but all of it worthy of consideration... and heading you towards areas you need to do research into.


Edit: This came in afterwards

I bet it would still be impossible to make anything. Right now I'm just so frustrated, it's like I have to be a millionaire to even attempt to make a film of ANY kind, fiction or non-fiction.
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Making bets against yourself will ensure that you never accomplish anything.

It's a much easier path, though.

So where you headed?
 
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I'm sorry. I guess it just seems to me, at first glance, like some of the advice has been harsh, but I understand where everyone's coming from. I don't want to feel like I'm being attacked here, and maybe that's how I felt to begin with. I honestly don't know what to do. On at least two of the "experimental" films I showed here using public domain footage from archive.org, I don't even know if copyrighting them would even be possible, or if despite the fact that they're readily available for download, I still have to pay an exorbitant amount of money anyway. I admit that I'm not exactly up on this stuff and I'm afraid that the only footage I can use for any purpose will be some really old film and nothing shot recently. I'm sorry if I acted in any inappropriate manner or said anything to offend anyone. Please forgive me.
 
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pacey1800 said:
Sorry I asked.
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Why? We all did our best to help you.

pacey1800 said:
Right now I'm just so frustrated, it's like I have to be a millionaire to even attempt to make a film of ANY kind, fiction or non-fiction.
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We all understand frustration. You don't need to be a millionaire
to make a movie. Not a single one of us here is a millionaire - not
even close. And many of us make movies. You see examples of
that every day right here on the boards - people posting the movies
they have made.

So you got some info that you didn't want to hear. No need to
tell us you're sorry you asked. You could even go so far as to
thank the people who took time to answer your question.

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pacey1800 said:
I'm sorry. I guess it just seems to me, at first glance, like some of the advice has been harsh,
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It's cool. Sometimes when you get honest, real answers it
seems harsh. You were hoping you could do exactly what you
wanted and were told you legally can't. No one was being harsh
we were all being honest.
 
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I do thank you for all of your help. I don't know why I keep forgetting to thank everyone for their help, I certainly don't mean to, and that does make me upset as well. I'm sorry. Thanks.
 
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Don't take this the wrong way. But stop beating yourself up!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9K4BKkLaCI\

You can make movies and you will make movies if that's what you set your mind to. The world is your mollusk of choice. I know it doesn't always seem like that, but you can manifest anything you want in life.

Plant the seed of your desire and let it grow. You need to water it and care for it, but if you dig it up to see if it's growing you will never get the fruits of your labor.
 
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Thank you so much. You're right, and I notice this more than anything, that all I ever do is just beat myself up over everything. I often tend to be my own worst critic, when it comes to virtually everything. It just seems like there is always a reason to be upset about something, whether it's trying to fool with complicated technology, or lack of success. I'm personally also frustrated because in addition to making these films, I'm also a screenwriter, and a short that I wrote for an assignment in my college screenwriting class that advanced to the second round of the PAGE Awards competition has not gotten anyone interested except for several unknown upstarts who I've become very suspicious of, who I have sent the script to only to hear nothing back from them (and one of them, who for some unknown reason, changed his mind at the last minute).

I've thought of filming it myself, but considering the fact that I am still in college and have those classes to take into account, I just don't think I will have time. In addition, I don't even know of anyone who can help me make the script any better than it is now. My teacher liked it and there were changes made to it, but somehow something tells me it's just not good enough, most likely because of something that someone else said on some screenwriting board, and on those kinds of boards the advice has been wildly inconsistent. I still think somehow that I can make my own films, but right now, with everything that's going on with my life, it's just difficult to make time. I do thank everyone for their advice, and I appreciate it.
 
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pacey1800 said:
I'm sorry. I guess it just seems to me, at first glance, like some of the advice has been harsh
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It's a matter of perception. People told you what you didn't want to hear. We're offering advice and opinions. Sometimes those are not what you want to read, but that's a part of learning I guess.

I recommend shooting your own material.
 
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I'll also add my personal outlook... "Ever Forward!" Don't stop moving, don't take time to wallow in failure and depression, don't take time for people to tell you you'll never succeed - Just keep at it.

If you tell yourself you can't do it, you're right... conversely, if you tell yourself that you can, you're right.

So, go make like Nike! "Just do it!"

If you make stuff with non-licensed, non-public domain stuff, you can still make it - nothing stops you from making it, you just can't sell it or show it, it becomes a learning opportunity/ tool.

If you intend to try to make money off of it, then we fall back on the old business adage, it costs money to make money :) - or you can find interesting workarounds.

Never apologize unless you've done something wrong or harmful... show some confidence, you're a filmmaker - there's no time for being self-conscious (in public).
 
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