I'm getting a 550d from canon soon and I need to know a good microphone for it. I'm on a sort of tight budget.
550d/T2i mic
- Thread starter Filmmakerr
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Hey, actually a dude recently PM'd me, asking my advice on a DSLR purchase. When the subject of audio came up, I told him to start a thread, so that #1 and #2 could chime in with their more educated opinions. I told him that I was happy with my H4n and NTG-2, but I'm inexperienced, and don't know any better.
Alcove, in the same price-range, you've mentioned a different recorder, no? Why do you feel it's better?
Define "tight budget." Your tight budget is someone else's pocket change. And you will still need a shock mount, boom-pole, cables and basic wind protection no matter which mic you choose.
99.99% of prosumer camcorders have very limited audio implementation. A DSLR is a still camera with video implementation; audio implementation on DSLRs is next to nonexistent.
Your best bet is a separate audio recorder.
Your second best bet would be a juicedLink or BeachTek mixer/adapter; third choice would be a "rat-tail" adapter like the Pearstone. In both these cases you must make absolutely certain that you disable the AGC. No matter which option you choose the sound will still be noisier than a camcorder, which will be noisier than even mid/low-budget digital audio recorders.
Now, as to mic choices - are you shooting mostly indoors or outdoors? If you are shooting primarily indoors you will want a hyper-cardioid; if you are shooting outdoors you will want a shotgun. You also need to know if your mic will be self-powered or will need external phantom power; this will impact your decisions all the way through the purchase process.
Here's some mic basics:
http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/right_mic_brockett.html
Last bit of advice - the quality of the sound will be very dependent upon the person/people running the sound; a newb with the best gear in the world will still record crappy audio, an experienced pro with budget gear will record very passable production sound.
99.99% of prosumer camcorders have very limited audio implementation. A DSLR is a still camera with video implementation; audio implementation on DSLRs is next to nonexistent.
Your best bet is a separate audio recorder.
Your second best bet would be a juicedLink or BeachTek mixer/adapter; third choice would be a "rat-tail" adapter like the Pearstone. In both these cases you must make absolutely certain that you disable the AGC. No matter which option you choose the sound will still be noisier than a camcorder, which will be noisier than even mid/low-budget digital audio recorders.
Now, as to mic choices - are you shooting mostly indoors or outdoors? If you are shooting primarily indoors you will want a hyper-cardioid; if you are shooting outdoors you will want a shotgun. You also need to know if your mic will be self-powered or will need external phantom power; this will impact your decisions all the way through the purchase process.
Here's some mic basics:
http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/right_mic_brockett.html
Last bit of advice - the quality of the sound will be very dependent upon the person/people running the sound; a newb with the best gear in the world will still record crappy audio, an experienced pro with budget gear will record very passable production sound.
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Hey, that's some good info. And you've answered the OP's question, but not mine. And my question is of course tied-in quite tightly with the OP's.
Basically, I'm trying to answer another dude's question to me. He asked me what's best on the bottom-dollar budget. I told him I've been happy with the H4n, but that I recall you saying there's another option, in the same price-range. What is that other option, and why choose it?
Thanks.
CF - I was writing while you were posting.
We should probably have an audio sticky or two that cover the basics.
There has been a lot of discussion about low audio levels with the Zoom H4n/Rode NTG-2 combination. The Zoom is not a production sound recorder; it was designed and aimed at musicians with musical applications in mind, which are usually high db, so the Zoom was designed to record at somewhat lower levels than is the norm. The NTG-2 has a lower signal level than most other mics (the NTG-1 and NTG-3 seem to be okay). The combination yields lower than usual recording levels.
The recorder that has generated a lot of interest recently is the Tascam DR-100. Early reports show it seems to share many of the same problems - short battery life and low input levels. As a handheld it can record four internal mics at the same time and the build does seem to be a little more solid than the H4n in keeping with Tascams reputation for durable products at a reasonable price. As I've mentioned before, we sound types are looking forward to the middle ground between the DR-100 and the HD-P2 at about the $400-$500 price point. The Marantz PMD661 and Fostex FR2-LE are still my personal low budget choices, especially with the Oade Brothers modifications.
We should probably have an audio sticky or two that cover the basics.
There has been a lot of discussion about low audio levels with the Zoom H4n/Rode NTG-2 combination. The Zoom is not a production sound recorder; it was designed and aimed at musicians with musical applications in mind, which are usually high db, so the Zoom was designed to record at somewhat lower levels than is the norm. The NTG-2 has a lower signal level than most other mics (the NTG-1 and NTG-3 seem to be okay). The combination yields lower than usual recording levels.
The recorder that has generated a lot of interest recently is the Tascam DR-100. Early reports show it seems to share many of the same problems - short battery life and low input levels. As a handheld it can record four internal mics at the same time and the build does seem to be a little more solid than the H4n in keeping with Tascams reputation for durable products at a reasonable price. As I've mentioned before, we sound types are looking forward to the middle ground between the DR-100 and the HD-P2 at about the $400-$500 price point. The Marantz PMD661 and Fostex FR2-LE are still my personal low budget choices, especially with the Oade Brothers modifications.
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I'm that "dude" who CF referred to. lol
Sorry it took me so long to jump into the conversation, but I have a few questions of my own now. I know very little about audio as I am more of a visual guy. But I understand the importance of good audio.
Is there a such thing as a "general purposes mic"? Or better yet, is there a mic I can buy that I can add DIY modifications to work in a variety of situations? I am looking to spend $100-$300 for the mic & recorder. I'll check out the above suggestions and see if I can find anything for cheap.
I'll list what I'd like to use it for, why, and then we'll go from there.
1.) Recording Voice-Overs and Audio in Post.
- Even If I can't get my audio recorded well with my filming, I am a good enough editor (with enough patience) that I'd be willing to record everything separate and "dubb" it over the footage. Believe me, I do know this is a pain, but it is possible.
- I'm also a musician. In addition to voice overs, I'd like to be able to use this mic to record my vocals for my own music. I make Hip Hop, so there won't be any extreme pitches that I would need the mic for. I could record all of my lyrics at the same tones as any dramatic VO.
2.) Recording On-Location aside a DSLR.
- We all know DSLR audio sucks. I see the suggestions for a separate recorder, and that's the route I'll go when I get my DSLR.
- When I wrote of DIY solutions, this is part of that; as in creating DIY Zeppelin windscreens with fake fur, for shooting outside, etx.
3.) Hooking up to my Camcorder down the road.
- I only will be getting a DSLR as a part of my equipment. I plan on upgrading as I generate more money. So eventually I'd like to put this mic in my main camera, which right now is going to be a Panasonic HMC150
I'm assuming a shotgun mic would be the way to go?
Sorry it took me so long to jump into the conversation, but I have a few questions of my own now. I know very little about audio as I am more of a visual guy. But I understand the importance of good audio.
Is there a such thing as a "general purposes mic"? Or better yet, is there a mic I can buy that I can add DIY modifications to work in a variety of situations? I am looking to spend $100-$300 for the mic & recorder. I'll check out the above suggestions and see if I can find anything for cheap.
I'll list what I'd like to use it for, why, and then we'll go from there.
1.) Recording Voice-Overs and Audio in Post.
- Even If I can't get my audio recorded well with my filming, I am a good enough editor (with enough patience) that I'd be willing to record everything separate and "dubb" it over the footage. Believe me, I do know this is a pain, but it is possible.
- I'm also a musician. In addition to voice overs, I'd like to be able to use this mic to record my vocals for my own music. I make Hip Hop, so there won't be any extreme pitches that I would need the mic for. I could record all of my lyrics at the same tones as any dramatic VO.
2.) Recording On-Location aside a DSLR.
- We all know DSLR audio sucks. I see the suggestions for a separate recorder, and that's the route I'll go when I get my DSLR.
- When I wrote of DIY solutions, this is part of that; as in creating DIY Zeppelin windscreens with fake fur, for shooting outside, etx.
3.) Hooking up to my Camcorder down the road.
- I only will be getting a DSLR as a part of my equipment. I plan on upgrading as I generate more money. So eventually I'd like to put this mic in my main camera, which right now is going to be a Panasonic HMC150
I'm assuming a shotgun mic would be the way to go?
No, not really.
$300 for the recorder and $300 for the mic plus a few more $$ for the accessories is about right.
I would suggest that you go through posts by ROC and myself, then check out my blog.
http://www.myspace.com/alcoveaudio/blog
Then, if you are still confused, we'll try to answer your questions.
I just thought I would bump this thread so that I could discuss my own issue which is similar....
I need a mic for my 550D, it's a wasted venture without one. Ideally I would follow Cracker's suggestion of H4n and NTG-2 because that sounds like a darned sensible suggestion.
However- that is expensive. I'm haemorrhaging money at the moment, which is bad considering I earn precisely $0 per annum.
Is there a cheaper alternative? Especially for the sound recorder. I'm shooting a documentary rather than a narrative, so crystal clear sound is perhaps slightly less imperative. That said I would like something that can be re-used if I am suddenly struck by the desire to step behind the lens of a short or whatever.
In the words of The Beatles: Help!
I need a mic for my 550D, it's a wasted venture without one. Ideally I would follow Cracker's suggestion of H4n and NTG-2 because that sounds like a darned sensible suggestion.
However- that is expensive. I'm haemorrhaging money at the moment, which is bad considering I earn precisely $0 per annum.
Is there a cheaper alternative? Especially for the sound recorder. I'm shooting a documentary rather than a narrative, so crystal clear sound is perhaps slightly less imperative. That said I would like something that can be re-used if I am suddenly struck by the desire to step behind the lens of a short or whatever.
In the words of The Beatles: Help!
Me: Not anything remotely resembling expert on this subject of audio.
For what it's worth, yeah, I've been happy with the H4n/NTG-2 combo, but dude, the impression I get from those in the know is that this is the lowest of the low bare-minimum prosumer kinda thing.
I think the answer to your question depends on your intent for your project. Are you trying to sell it? If so, you better spend some money.
Are you just trying to get into festivals, and gain some self-exposure? If that's the case, I don't think you need good equipment.
Shitty camera. Shitty mic. You can make a solid movie that people will want to watch, and that can gain exposure for yourself. Plug a shitty, unbalanced, $30 mic into your shitty camera, and people will still want to watch it, if you've made a solid movie (speaking from experience).
You're movie can look and sound awesome, but nobody's gonna wanna watch it if they don't have a story to grab on to.
Whilst I agree with most of what you're saying, I've already invested in the 550D which is a good enough camera for the project I'm undertaking.
The trouble with sound is that, as Alcove likes to point out, when it's bad it's more distracting than when the film is bad.
That said i'm a long..............................way from trying to sell my product, but I would like to try for some festivals and some self exposure. It's just that with the H4n the lowest price I could find on eBay was (approx) 250 pounds. That's quite a lot of money. Is there no alternative?? :NoApplicableSmiley:
The trouble with sound is that, as Alcove likes to point out, when it's bad it's more distracting than when the film is bad.
That said i'm a long..............................way from trying to sell my product, but I would like to try for some festivals and some self exposure. It's just that with the H4n the lowest price I could find on eBay was (approx) 250 pounds. That's quite a lot of money. Is there no alternative?? :NoApplicableSmiley:
Define your budget; $10, $100, $1,000? Are you shooting primarily indoors or out? That will make a big difference when making recommendations.
I don't have a defined budget as such, but between 100-250 GBP...
As for shooting I'm going to say 80 to 20 in favour of indoors. I'm assuming indoors is cheaper?
Cheers for the advice guys.
As for shooting I'm going to say 80 to 20 in favour of indoors. I'm assuming indoors is cheaper?
Cheers for the advice guys.
Consider your source. Alcove is the man. But we come from different perspectives. I don't agree with this statement one bit (the way it's written here). Audio needs to be really bad to take an audience out of a well-told story, in my opinion.
Dude, buy an audiotechnica $30 mic, and try it out. What do you have to lose? $30 -- that's what. Not a huge gamble, if you ask me. You might be surprised at the not-so-horrible results you can get. Honestly, dude, I just upgraded to the H4n/NTG-2, and I used my shitty $30 mic, duct-taped to a broomstick, for years. And I won awards with it.
Sure, it has to be really bad in order to ruin the film...
But if it isn't very good quality or if the enviromental sound levels are too high, the dialogue to quiet or muffled then it's very difficult to engage with a film. Obviously I hope to be presenting an interesting story, but there is a danger with documentaries that people will disengage if everything isn't made as simple as possible for them.
EDIT: We overlapped posting. That's not a terrible idea (although some people around here my thing it ain't too clever). Do you have any of the footage you shot with that knocking about? Thanks a bunch
But if it isn't very good quality or if the enviromental sound levels are too high, the dialogue to quiet or muffled then it's very difficult to engage with a film. Obviously I hope to be presenting an interesting story, but there is a danger with documentaries that people will disengage if everything isn't made as simple as possible for them.
EDIT: We overlapped posting. That's not a terrible idea (although some people around here my thing it ain't too clever). Do you have any of the footage you shot with that knocking about? Thanks a bunch
Shitty audio with
a $30 mic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxhJxo30VEI
God, this piece-of-shit was fun to make. My roommate and friend was assigned a project in his forensics class, in which he was to show an understanding of the material, via a fake trailer, or something of those sorts. Naturally, he looked to me to produce. We shot this 6-page script in barely over 2-hours, unrehearsed, sight-unseen, and boy does it show. Every single boom in the shot was there unintentionally!
a $30 mic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxhJxo30VEI
God, this piece-of-shit was fun to make. My roommate and friend was assigned a project in his forensics class, in which he was to show an understanding of the material, via a fake trailer, or something of those sorts. Naturally, he looked to me to produce. We shot this 6-page script in barely over 2-hours, unrehearsed, sight-unseen, and boy does it show. Every single boom in the shot was there unintentionally!
Ha! Loved the boom pole 
The audio wasn't that much of a disaster...
The audio wasn't that much of a disaster...