What are film programs like at a community college?

I would NOT attend community college for filmmaking with the purpose of learning technicalities - I'd only go for the purpose of meeting potential crew members. That's literally it. I don't care about equipment (though I'm still very curious about what type of film equipment community colleges carry). I guess I'm trying to ask if going to community college for filmmaking would be worth it in my situation. I'm talking about community colleges in general

Well, that seems silly. From the posts that I've read (unless you've done some truly amazing things from the last time you've written), you're still an amateur and don't have much experience. That's not a bad thing, though. I recommend you gain some experience, and study filmmaking. It seems like it's something that requires a little bit of talent and hard work, but it's stressful and requires great amounts of talent, knowledge, and dedication. Once you do find people that you want to work with, you're going to find that you're going to need knowledge and experience to work with them. So I'd say take advantage of the enthusiasm you have, and go get some experience. Go work on film sets, make short films, and make connections with people outside of community college and other similar places. I'm sure you can find PLENTY of filmmaking groups, indie film screenings, get togethers, and so on and on in your area. Approach whatever you do with an open mind and take advantage of it. If you don't go to community college, connect other ways, and study on the internet and in film books. If you decide to go to community college w/ film courses, then I recommend you go ahead and take the classes to gain experience, and meet collaborators along the way.


Thats correct - the same type of dedicated "crew" members you'd find at any other film school.

More advanced or respected film schools offer specialized programs for people interested in certain fields. In addition to that, there are a variety of contributing factors regarding dedication and amount of people interested in different fields. Often times, as Alcove mentions later, people want to become directors. In colleges with larger film programs, you'll find a larger variety of people interested in different jobs. Community college can vary, much like any college. It really depends on where you're looking at. If you have links or a couple of ideas of where you might want to go, it might be easier. Although as a backup plan, I still recommend you go to get togethers and film meet up groups. And if for some strange reason you can't find one, start one!

I'm sorry: I was only curious. If you're saying that every single person who attends film school or enters a film program wants to be the director, that's fine by me. I was only wondering if community college was a good place to meet people interested in specific areas of film - audio, cinematography, editing, etc. - excuse me for assuming people had an array of interests. I was unaware that all film crew members aspire to be directors

Getting mighty sarcastic, aren't we?

No, not every person that attends film school wants to be a director. It's more so that the vast majority of people attending the kind of film programs you are speaking about want to become directors. People that are interested in other fields that decide to go to film school will choose colleges that specialize in the particular field they are interested or, or will go to the more high caliber film programs.

I never said I was special? I feel like you're blowing my question out of proportion and pulling the "what makes you so special" card when I haven't said anything to provoke that.

I beg to differ. It relates to your original questions well. The vast majority of the people that will be attending the program you may or may not attend will be directors. He's asking the question because there are plenty of people like you, and is simply asking you not to provoke you, but to make you think about the number of people that want to be directors as well. In other words, would you like to be the one working as a crew member for other directors?

I was just wondering whether or not a film program at a community college could temporarily supplement a film program at an actual film school.

It could. But you could do better gaining experience from Youtube, working on sets, and making your own films outside of college.

I was only wondering if it was a good place to make friends who could help you with some films.

Maybe. Maybe not. There's no "YES!" or "NO!".

Never once did I say anything of the grandiose nature "I'm the next (X), now tell me how to get people to work for free because I'm the boss and I deserve it"

But you appear to be making the assumption that people will want to work as your crew members.



My mom isn't in the best health. I have a sister. And I don't have the money to move away and live on my own JUST for a community college. The reason I'm considering a community college in the first place is because I want to keep a tight budget. Moving away and paying for a living space seems to defeat the purpose.

Then go the alternative route and skip it altogether. Learn from the internet, work on sets, make your own stuff from the experience you gain from the two former tasks.

The simple fact that I don't have any "festival wins or major credits" (as Alcove Audio put it) means nothing. I'm a junior in high school. I'm curious how many other individuals on this forum had major credits or festival wins at that age? I mean, give me a break. Everyone has to start somewhere. Every director has to have that first experience with pulling together a crew, whether that crew is made up of proffesionals or friends and classmates.

Well, we're not arguing that everyone starts somewhere. We're having a discussion on how you should start, and how you should work up to where you want to get. What people are disagreeing with you is your method and plan.

I'm sorry for the backlash. But I really don't need people to tell me how I'm spoiled, lazy, unmotivated, and don't give a damn about filmmaking when they don't even know me.

*sigh*

That's not how you're being seen. The whole "not give a damn" thing was because you APPEAR to be an amateur and a beginner, and you not caring about gaining knowledge and insight from a program that is meant for that reason makes it appear like you don't give a damn about learning about the things that you don't care to learn but should.

You may think you're being subtle, but by telling me to calm down and "take a deep breath", I can tell you're trying to patronize me.

He wouldn't have posted those comments if he didn't care about what you did.

I understand this is a community. But I find it hard to follow good-natured, helpful advice (no matter how good the intention may be) when that advice feels somewhat condescending.

You have to keep in mind you're on a site on the internet, where anyone can write in. The great thing about Indietalk, though, is that it's more moderated than the other filmmaking sites on the internet.

Thank you for clearing up your comment. As for the thick skin? Don't worry. I won't be losing any sleep over this.

You did call some of the comments 'offensive', called people trying to help you 'arrogant', make accusations of people being 'patronizing', and you appeared to be upset.

I know that all indie filmmakers, from the first timers to the well-seasoned proffesionals, need to find a crew at some point in order to make a film: that crew can be a skeleton crew consisting of four newcomers, or a crew of twenty established people that you're paying very well.

Well not always, but ANYWAY, that's not what's being argued about! We're not disagreeing with you on that! But rather the way you want to get there.

Either way, I don't necessarily think it's an issue of "what makes you so special?" - particularly if you have no festival wins or credits - or else no one would start making films. I'm sure you've either worked on a crew before or hired a crew, of varying sizes and skill levels. I don't think that makes you demanding or entitled at all. It's just the way things are done.

Well it is a bit of a 'what makes you special' situation. You have to have a reason for why they should dedicate their time, patience, and talent to you to bring YOUR vision to life vs. someone else's film.

[QUOTE}Eventually, I would like to hire a crew for an independent film of mine. I don't know when that would be. I don't know if I would meet anyone of that sort in a community college. And I don't know how unprofessional that crew will be when the time comes. But either way, it's still a crew. I don't think I'm wrong for looking ahead like that.[/QUOTE]

Go out. Meet other filmmakers. Work on sets. Do your own short films.
 
I have an exam to prepare for, so I'll try to make this brief (I don't have time to dissect the responses line by line). I'm speaking more to ChimpPhobiaFilms and ItDonnedOnMe now.

I'll throw in a little more information - when I asked my question, I didn't think this information was relevant or necessary to answer, but now the conversation has shifted. You two are correct - I am very naive when it comes to filmmaking (I have some basic technical knowledge from reading books like "from reel to deal" and "filmmaking for dummies", but minimal hands on experience outside of a class). However, I don't intend on trying to 'break in' through filmmaking. I plan to go the screenwriting route and hope that feeds into a writer/director career.

I know I have a lot of experience with writing. I've dedicated hundreds of hours these past three years, writing and reading more than a dozen different books. I feel like I'm well versed on the business aspect of things: how to pitch a project, get a manager, sell a script, etc. This is an area I feel quite comfortable with. I'm proud of my progress, and I feel like it's more than most teens my age. This isn't me being arrogant. If you two can share your personal experiences of dedication (kudos to you ItDonnedOnMe, that's a very uplifting story of how much you sacrificed!), I feel like I should be able to share my own progress in situations such as these.

I've already decided not to attend film school. I know it's a huge debate today, especially with new sites like No Film School popping up. I just happen to lean towards the side that film school isn't worth the money. I've read too many horror stories of people who went into debt for an education they feel like they could have gotten at home with a little more grit and a whole lot less money. I've considered both arguments, and I've come to the conclusion film school isn't the right path for me (as of now)

Now, I was about to write off all forms of film related higher education when I thought "well wait - what about community college?". I know community colleges get a lot of flak for their quality however, particularly in the art department. I don't have a strong film community in my town at all - its very much a scientific community. However, before I considered spending a few thousand bucks for community college, I thought I'd ask if the experience of attending a community college for filmmaking was worth it for any of you. To make the question more direct, I explained the two areas I was most invested in - is the equipment decent (that's not the most important thing for me though), and are there individuals there who could be potential crew for a short film later on? I would also be ecstatic to help on someone else's short film, if we knew each other well enough.

I see now that you guys are just trying to help. :) But my original question wasn't referencing what path is right for me. I wasn't initially looking for advice on how to start my career - I know myself, and I'm capable of figuring that bit out on my own (I've gotten more than a head start in that department). I don't see myself breaking in by working as a PA or volunteering on sets. I see myself breaking in by taking the traditional screenwriters route, and hoping a good reel can help me get into a spot directing, assistant directing, or having any production role on my screenplays (assuming one was ever bought and subsequently made). That's the route I'd like to take. I'm sure it's different from the more guerrilla-style filmmakers on here. I do admire the path you two took however.

I hope I've made myself more clear now. Since this thread has evolved so much, I thought I'd add in more information.
 
(kudos to you ItDonnedOnMe, that's a very uplifting story of how much you sacrificed!)

That's actually not what I was going for - I wouldn't consider mine to be a story of significant sacrifice or overcoming adversity, etc. I've lived a charmed life in comparison to what many, many people face.

My point is that you're asking the wrong questions. Can you find crew at a community college? Sure, or not, depending on the school and the class and the people and you. Is it worth spending the money? Pretty much the same answer. Will they have decent equipment? Maybe - ask someone at the specific school you're looking at and I bet you'll get a definitive answer.

What you should be asking is "How can I make the resources available at my local community college (or anywhere else) work for me?" The answer may be that you can't - but only you can make that call, and it's going to require you to do first-hand research about what specific resources are available, think creatively about how best you can take advantage of them, and weigh the cost (in both time and money) against other options to determine whether it's worth it or not for you. The point is that it's entirely up to you to make things worth your time and effort - and you'll be able to answer the questions you've asked here better than any of us can once you do the research into the specific resources that are within your reach.

And you absolutely have to think creatively about how to use those resources. For example, many community colleges have very active theater departments, even if they have no film or television production programs. You may well have far more success finding crew by taking theater classes (or getting involved in productions) than film classes. And if the school doesn't have that, there may be a community theater that does, and they're probably looking for people to get involved all the time. But if all you're looking for is 'film', you'll completely miss that opportunity.
 
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That's actually not what I was going for - I wouldn't consider mine to be a story of significant sacrifice or overcoming adversity, etc. I've lived a charmed life in comparison to what many, many people face.

My point is that you're asking the wrong questions.

ask someone at the specific school you're looking at and I bet you'll get a definitive answer.

What you should be asking is "How can I make the resources available at my local community college (or anywhere else) work for me?" The answer may be that you can't - but only you can make that call, and it's going to require you to do first-hand research about what specific resources are available, think creatively about how best you can take advantage of them, and weigh the cost (in both time and money) against other options to determine whether it's worth it or not for you.

As surprising as it may seem, I do have common sense. I'm very well aware that the first step in finding a good college match is to do extensive research and figure out how to take advantage of their services. I know you should weigh the cost and the resources available. I know how to use sites like naviance and college board to locate schools. I've been fed that message since junior high school. You don't need to reiterate that.

I feel like my initial question was as straightforward as I could make it- is community college a good place to meet potential crew members? Frankly, I don't know if there's any "wrong" question to ask on this site (or if you're qualified to make that call). I wasn't asking if I deserved to meet potential crew members, I didn't ask for a long winding, off topic explanation that went into working as a PA, getting on sets, joining film groups in my area, etc. I didn't ask if I seemed like I was dedicated or motivated enough to pull through. It isn't my fault that you (and some other posters) have chosen to take a fairly simple, straightforward question and extrapolate it - picking apart what I've said line for line and searching for some sort of subtext in my phrasing that hints at what kind of a filmmaker I am or wish to become. That seems a bit complicated, doesn't it?

I do feel like I'm running in a circle here. I'm sure that any other explanation I give or any additional detail I add is going to be countered. Whatever new response I write is going to be further analyzed and argued with. I asked a question and wanted an answer, not some sort of debate.

Have you taken a community college course in filmmaking? Do you personally feel like it was worth it? And how motivated did you find the other students - did they seem like the kind of people you could shoot a short film with? It was really that simple. I don't need specifics on particular schools. I was just hoping to hear anyone's personal, individual experience with any these programs.
 
I'm going to regret commenting...
I feel like my initial question was as straightforward as I could make it- is community college a good place to meet potential crew members?
It's too bad this isn't what you asked in your first post. I believe this
was was what you meant – but it isn't what you wrote. A very straight
forward question with a very straight forward answer.

But what I read was: “I would NOT attend community college for
filmmaking with the purpose of learning technicalities - I'd only go for
the purpose of meeting potential crew members.
That's literally it”.
And that, along with your statements about your high school group
who “couldn't be lazier” and wouldn't lift a finger is what gave me
(and clearly others) the impression that you were asking if a community
college film program would be worth it in your situation. And that situation
was you wanting to find crew and only crew. “That's literally it” in your
words.

Have you taken a community college course in filmmaking? Do you personally feel like it was worth it? And how motivated did you find the other students - did they seem like the kind of people you could shoot a short film with? It was really that simple. I don't need specifics on particular schools. I was just hoping to hear anyone's personal, individual experience with any these programs.
It wasn't until this post that you asked for personal, individual experiences.

You are convinced that we are all wrong. That WE all attacked you. But
just maybe, your initial was not as clear as you think it was and we all
responded to what you wrote not what you were thinking.

I know that I, personally, would have answered these questions very
differently. I have personal experience in a community college film
program.
 
I'm going to regret commenting...

It's too bad this isn't what you asked in your first post. I believe this
was was what you meant – but it isn't what you wrote. A very straight
forward question with a very straight forward answer.

But what I read was: “I would NOT attend community college for
filmmaking with the purpose of learning technicalities - I'd only go for
the purpose of meeting potential crew members.
That's literally it”.
And that, along with your statements about your high school group
who “couldn't be lazier” and wouldn't lift a finger is what gave me
(and clearly others) the impression that you were asking if a community
college film program would be worth it in your situation. And that situation
was you wanting to find crew and only crew. “That's literally it”

Sorry - I used the word "literally" to emphasize that my main focus is NOT to attend community college as my primary source of film knowledge. I'd prefer to learn and practice on my own at first. I'm a very independent person, but I realize this is hurting me. I don't have too many friends that could help me. I even think I started a thread many months ago addressing this (how the heck do you make a film when you don't have friends to film with?). Connections really are my primary interest - IF I were to spend money on a film program.

As for my film group, they really were something. I'm friends with them, and they're very funny and nice. The only problem is that all of them have C's and D's, and since they're a year ahead of me and have already gotten into their state schools, they couldn't care less about their grades. I don't even think one of them is going to graduate as of now. Don't get me wrong. It's super fun being in a class with them. But as for gaining actual knowledge and practice?... Not so much. The film class was a fun thing for the year, but also a total joke. My jaded teacher would leave the classroom all period or go on his laptop. I don't think we ever had one lecture. It was very much a directionless free for all with very, very limited materials.
 
Have you taken a community college course in filmmaking? Do you personally feel like it was worth it? And how motivated did you find the other students - did they seem like the kind of people you could shoot a short film with? It was really that simple. I don't need specifics on particular schools. I was just hoping to hear anyone's personal, individual experience with any these programs.

Ok, here's my two specific experiences with community college:

When I attended as a student my school had one film course, which was purely theory-based, and while interesting wasn't much use from a production standpoint. I was already making videos with a couple of friends at that point so I wasn't really looking for crew, and I was pretty busy between school and work so I wasn't doing much production anyway. But my main focus at that point was learning filmmaking, and the most valuable courses I took while there ended up being studio photography ones.

Years later I ended up teaching occasional courses at a community college, one or two a semester for about 5 years. Out of 20-30 students each semester there were always 2-3 who were a lot more enthusiastic than others. They were working on their own projects, they didn't want to leave when class was over, they had a million questions. They started signing up for whatever class I was teaching next, and they got to know each other and started doing stuff outside of class together. About a dozen of us went to see a 48HFP screening, someone said "we could do that", and IDOM was born. At that point I'd lost much of my passion for making films and hadn't done much production other than occasional corporate projects for a few years, so it was really my students that got me fired up about it again. For whatever it's worth, I was the youngest member of the team when we started. In addition to the people on my team there are a couple other teams we've competed with over the years who have members that came through my classes as well, but for whatever reason didn't end up getting directly involved with us.

So, two different schools, two different points in life, two very different experiences. Both were worth it, but for different reasons. And yes - based on the second experience, I did find people I could shoot short films with, and actually went on to do that more than 30 times over the next few years.
 
I count myself fortunate to live within 30 minutes of a community college with a dedicated film school. My background is in writing too and I'm on planning on producing my own film. But I know my limits and I don't simply want crew members, I want volunteers who are interested in my idea and in helping me improve and shape the idea. And getting feedback and advice from professors would be invaluable.

I really wish I could attend some classes. It's actually cheap enough (at about $100/credit) and my wife would support me by covering the house/family duties but almost none of the classes fit my full time work schedule.

I've talked a little to the administration and they do welcome producers and directors looking for volunteers even though their students tend to have plenty of projects on their own. But I agree with many of the posters, you'll get what you're willing to put into it. And you might just have to get lucky -- not everyone will be interested in my idea.

In any case, that school asked me to make a flyer detailing my project and they are going to post that in their newsletter and Facebook page. We'll see what happens.
 
Ok, here's my two specific experiences with community college:

When I attended as a student my school had one film course, which was purely theory-based, and while interesting wasn't much use from a production standpoint. I was already making videos with a couple of friends at that point so I wasn't really looking for crew, and I was pretty busy between school and work so I wasn't doing much production anyway. But my main focus at that point was learning filmmaking, and the most valuable courses I took while there ended up being studio photography ones.

Really? Why were the studio photography classes so valuable? I always thought you just focused on taking nice pictures, and that the students in film classes and photography classes didn't have much overlay. What would you say are the similarities between photography and film classes?

Thanks! :)
 
Really? Why were the studio photography classes so valuable? I always thought you just focused on taking nice pictures, and that the students in film classes and photography classes didn't have much overlay. What would you say are the similarities between photography and film classes?

Thanks! :)

You learn about working with people. You learn about framing, lighting, cameras, composition, angles, techniques, and many other useful things that can be applied to filmmaking.
 
You learn about working with people. You learn about framing, lighting, cameras, composition, angles, techniques, and many other useful things that can be applied to filmmaking.

I was a bit worried the lack of movement and editing would create too much of a disconnect between filmmaking (I suppose I'm wrong though). I was also a little worried that the angles and framing used in photography are too different from the angles that "work" in a film. I guess I'll see.

Thanks! I'll definitely check out a photography class at the nearby community colleges - although I don't think there are any film production classes at the community colleges near me, I'm almost positive there's a photography class. I would consider taking the photography course my school offers, but after such a bad experience with my film course this year (and the fact that - I think - the class is taught by the same teacher), I might pass on that one.
 
There's certainly differences between cinematography and still photography, but the similarities greatly outweigh the differences. Personally I think anyone who wants to learn cinematography would benefit from starting with still photography, because I feel it's easier and faster to test, practice and experiment with still images since the equipment and crew requirements can be minimal.

As for the specifics of what I learned, here's a few of the things I can remember:

Basic camera operation - shutter speed, aperture, ISO, etc and how each effects the image.
Composition & perspective, and the effects of lens selection and camera distance to subject on both.
Lighting - how to use a light meter, light ratios, falloff, hard vs. soft lighting, techniques for shaping lighting, etc.
Exposure - the interplay between light, camera settings, and film. Using techniques like the zone system to manipulate dynamic range, and to measure & optimize the dynamic range of a particular equipment configuration.
Basic color correction - both lens filtration, and during the printing process via filter packs in the enlarger for both B&W and color images.
Fundamentals of digital imaging - pixels, resolution, bit-depth, color channels, compositing, etc.

Most of what I did was specifically working with film (digital was very new at the time), but most of the fundamental concepts translate easily between film and digital.

I would consider taking the photography course my school offers, but after such a bad experience with my film course this year (and the fact that - I think - the class is taught by the same teacher), I might pass on that one.

I started photography in my junior year of HS, and had a good teacher that year - but the class was heavy on theory and history, and only introduced us to the basics of the technology. I probably learned more my senior year when I did it as independent study, it basically gave me an hour alone in the darkroom every day to work on my own projects - which put me in a good position to really get the most out of the classes available at the community college the next year. So you might consider taking the class even if the instructor isn't particularly good or active - look at it as just carving some time out of your school schedule that you can take advantage of to learn the stuff on your own.
 
Liv - I'm not a visuals guy, but I've worked with lots of amazing talented people over the years, plus my wife is a photographer and a graphic artist, so I do have a basic understanding.

Many of the talented, experienced DPs/Cinematographers I've met are very big on studying still photography and "fine art," meaning painting. They study colors and contrasts, composition, perspective and the like.

If you delve into BTS extras on DVDs you'll find DPs/Cinematographers, art directors, etc. discussing this. As an example, in "Forrest Gump" BTS extras they discuss using - in fact outright stealing - visual images and composition from various sources such as Norman Rockwell.

They based the composition of the opening shot of the Principals Office scene on this painting:

3.jpg


And the basic palette and imagery of the Doctors Office scene from this one:

medium_NORMAN-ROCKWELL-doctors-office.jpg
$(KGrHqV,!rMFHQubHDETBR9-uVWfN!~~60_35.JPG

4058869.jpg





You may find this interesting:

http://www.film.com/movies/pacific-rim-painting
 
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