How does an iphone get such deep focus?

[harmonica44]

Some people where I live are shooting their first short films on their iphones or blackberries, etc. I wonder how the phone gets such good deep focus. It even looks better than my Canon T2i, at it's deepest which seems to be f8.

All the characters in a master shot, are in focus, and their is no need to rack at all it looks like from the footage I have seen so far. Any way to do this with a DLSR are bigger video camera, or is an HD cell phone ideal for deep focus?

I've noticed that the phone is deep focus under much lower light as well, but if I were directing I would want enough light for deep focus, that will get rid a lot of the the noise of course.

 

[knightly]

OK... my brief google studies seem to indicate that this problem is for points of high contrast (lights at night against a black sky). For a good image with long DoF, you will be over lighting the set so you can stop down... and this won't lend itself to high contrast images or set design. Can you give us more imformation (as we always ask for) for why these two things are being used together (Long DoF and nighttime / high contrast shooting with over exposed point lights in the image)... change out the lights in the practical fixtures with lower wattage ones that won't create as much over exposure. What your'e fighting against is the overexposure of a point light source in the frame. Deal with those "glings" and you won't have to worry about the diffraction.

 

[ItDonnedOnMe]

I just don't get why if Apple can give us this in a crappy camera phone the big camera companies can't do it!?! I mean, c'mon Canon, Sony, Panasonic, get your acts together and give us what we want - affordable cameras that can achieve deep depth of field! Why should this be reserved for Hollywood? We've been stuck with this shallow depth of field for long enough, we shouldn't be forced to resort to shooting on a cellphone to get a proper cinematic look.

 

[harmonica44]

Yeah the DP wants to shoot this movie on his panasonic. I thought that hyperfocal meant a particular fstop, like F16. I didn't know it was a turn of the focus ring. Well hopefully we can make it work. The DP hates the idea though, and would rather just shoot shallow. I'll ask him to do some tests with his camera.

 

[jax_rox]

Here's the thing:

You can't stop down if you don't have the lighting to do so.

Also, deep focus can often look very 'video' depending on the camera you're shooting on.

 

[harmonica44]

Well his is a panasonic something. Not sure what but it's big about the size of a RED. He also has another camera which is a Sony, and it's bigger, but I am not sure if I want to use that one. He said it's his best quality one, but it's hard to fit into confined spaces for some shots, such as shots from the floor pointed up, where I would want wide shots.

And it takes DV cassette tapes which take longer to process and I would have to wait till I got them processed from somewhere.

I don't mind paying for extra lights to stop down, it's just he doesn't like working with such bright lights, but I think he could get use to it, respectively.

As far as it looking home video-ish, I just love that old school 60s, and pre 60s film look where multiple characters are in focus in master shots, and you don't have to rack between all of them. I don't need the background to be in focus. In fact I want the background to be out of focus, since we will be using real locations, which means mediocre to crappy production design.

So I would the background out of focus, like a modern DSLR movie, but all the characters in focus, like a 60s movie for before.

 

[jax_rox]

I'm not sure if you're saying you want shallow focus at the same time as having deep focus..?

miniDV cameras are great. They have a buttload of features and are still very reliable and robust cameras. They look like home video, to a certain extent. Lighting helps that to an extent, but you can't take a early '00's miniDV camera and expect to have it look like a movie shot on 35mm in the 60s.
Also, miniDV cameras tend to have small sensors. Rather than one large sensor a la DSLRs and Digital Cinema cameras, they have multiple small sensors. So, in general, your DoF won't be all that shallow at all. It will have some depth to it, but unless he plans to shoot everything zoomed in all the way (or has some kind of lens adapter), it won't be overly shallow.

DSLR is a different story.

 

[harmonica44]

Oh I forgot, he has an adapter which he sticks at the end of the camera to achieve shallow DOF.

I want to do a scene like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tU98uP7pXA8

Notice how in the master shot all the characters are in focus. I want that, but with the background blurry to hide mediocre art directions on real locations, if that's possible.

 

[Cracker Funk]

I just don't get why if Apple can give us this in a crappy camera phone the big camera companies can't do it!?! I mean, c'mon Canon, Sony, Panasonic, get your acts together and give us what we want - affordable cameras that can achieve deep depth of field! Why should this be reserved for Hollywood? We've been stuck with this shallow depth of field for long enough, we shouldn't be forced to resort to shooting on a cellphone to get a proper cinematic look.

!!!

Thank you. I've been waiting for someone to say that.

 

[knightly]

That lighting setup is probably around 20k of light over all for the Dr. No clip wide shots. The actors are most likely being lit with a 650 - 1k as a key each, then tons of lights around the room to bring the exposure up to the levels the DP wants.

Look at the reflections in the green lamp cover on the desk. Each point of white on there is a light on the set... each probably at least 650w if not more. Depending on the stock they were using. If they chose slow stock to get a crisper image rather than a grainy one, they may even be using 2Ks as key lights to bring up the exposure enough to make up for the lower ISO/ASA filmstock.

Each actor in that shot is probably being hit with 2-3K of light just in their own 3 point setup. Then add in the background lights (note the portrait on the wall gets its own spot light at a high exposure. and that the bottom half of the room is lit at a different level than the upper half to use chiarascuro to contrast the exposure values of the faces and make them stand out from the background while still giving the impression that the background is well lit.

They're not doing run and gun (punny) on that set. It's not a little 3-point lighting kit they're using... it's a huge setup that took a few hours to arrange with electricians and standins, etc.

If you're the director, and your DP doesn't agree, then you're right... and if you are wrong, you're still right -- you're the director. If you've hired/enlisted your DP because you value their opinion and skillset, then you may want to listen to them as you've hired then to have that opinion... then right or wrong, it's still your decision... you're the director, captain of the ship... the crew sinks or swims because of you. Make a decision, move forward -- that's your job as director.

 

[mus]

I'm sure there's a lens out there that provides deep focus

 

[TheArtist]

I'm sure there's a lens out there that provides deep focus

Did you even bother reading what was said ?

 

[wheatgrinder]

I just don't get why if Apple can give us this in a crappy camera phone the big camera companies can't do it!?! I mean, c'mon Canon, Sony, Panasonic, get your acts together and give us what we want - affordable cameras that can achieve deep depth of field! Why should this be reserved for Hollywood? We've been stuck with this shallow depth of field for long enough, we shouldn't be forced to resort to shooting on a cellphone to get a proper cinematic look.

 

[knightly]

I'm sure there's a lens out there that provides deep focus

The only option would be to find a lens that goes smaller than f/16... I've got an f/22 that I can use, it's a 80-200mm and I never use that end of the f-stop range - because I use it to get a shallower DoF specifically as it's a longer lens. So find a 25-50 ish mm lens that goes to f/32 and you'll find exactly what you want... then just crank up the light.

 

[ItDonnedOnMe]

I'm sure there's a lens out there that provides deep focus

Well, obviously the one in the iphone does. If canon would just give us that in an EF mount everyone would be happy - but clearly they're too worried about protecting their market for high-priced glass. They'd rather release new lenses with just an extra foot or so of depth-of-field each year so that we have to keep upgrading to keep all of our actors in focus. It's all a big scam! Hopefully RED will see this opportunity and release something at NAB.

 

[mus]

Well, obviously the one in the iphone does.

In response to both this and TheArtist's stupid question, my response was to your original question:

I just don't get why if Apple can give us this in a crappy camera phone the big camera companies can't do it!?! I mean, c'mon Canon, Sony, Panasonic, get your acts together and give us what we want - affordable cameras that can achieve deep depth of field! Why should this be reserved for Hollywood? We've been stuck with this shallow depth of field for long enough, we shouldn't be forced to resort to shooting on a cellphone to get a proper cinematic look.

Without resorting to using the iphone as a filmmaking device, I am willing to bet that there are specific lenses that can give you the deep focus look.

 

[mus]

It's all a big scam!

No argument there... but if Harmonica wants this look, he may have to fork over some dough

 

[jax_rox]

Yes, there are specific lenses - wide angle lenses stopped down! If you throw a 16mm lens on and shoot at f/8, you're going to have much deeper focus than anything shot with a 50mm lens, assuming the same sensor size.

Focus - shallow and deep DoF is due to the combination of the focal length, aperture and sensor size. A 100mm lens could give you deep focus stopped down enough and on a small enough sensor!
That's why it was always difficult to get shallow DoF in video cameras, because they all used multiple small sensors. Then one day someone thought of putting a single, large sensor in a digital camera, similar to actual film and voila - you have the digital cinema revolution, and with it shallow DoF.

 

[ItDonnedOnMe]

That's why it was always difficult to get shallow DoF in video cameras, because they all used multiple small sensors. Then one day someone thought of putting a single, large sensor in a digital camera, similar to actual film and voila - you have the digital cinema revolution, and with it shallow DoF.

Wait, let me get this straight - you're saying there are already video cameras out there that can give us true cinematic deep focus? I mean, other than the iphone, of course. I find this very unlikely, otherwise we'd all be using them instead of these hard-to-focus DSLRs with razor-thin DOF, wouldn't we? And if this is the case (crazy as it might seem), why hasn't anyone suggested one of these amazing cameras to the OP?

 

[jax_rox]

Wait, let me get this straight - you're saying there are already video cameras out there that can give us true cinematic deep focus? I mean, other than the iphone, of course. I find this very unlikely, otherwise we'd all be using them instead of these hard-to-focus DSLRs with razor-thin DOF, wouldn't we? And if this is the case (crazy as it might seem), why hasn't anyone suggested one of these amazing cameras to the OP?

I feel like this often in these threads:



We spend three pages discussing the same answer only to be met with ridiculous reasons why it can't happen ('but what if aliens come down and take all the small sensors in the world? What will I do then??!!!')

 

[Cracker Funk]

OMFG, ItDonnedOnMe, I can't stop laughing! Thank you!

This is a really weird position for me to be in, but I feel the need to point out that I'm not quite sure that everyone is getting the sarcasm.

We've ALWAYS had deep focus. For decades, we complained about not being able to have shallow focus. Your average shitty camcorder will get deep focus. We spend a whole bunch of money to get shallow focus. That DSLR you're holding will capture some fucking beautiful deep focus, you just need to know how to use it. The iPhone is not your solution.

H44 is a troll.