THE IMPORTANT QUESTION

TheOpusFuller

TheOpusFuller

Alright, I'm posting this discussion in the Newbie thread because I think this is one major issue that needs to be looked at and flushed! I think the newbie section is the perfect home for what's about to be talked about. Every new independent filmmaker and every veteran should be involved in this little chit chat!

So, in my opinion, the issue that needs to be discussed here is what do we do once the film is finished.

For all you new filmmakers out there, for all you filmmakers who have been at this for years, how do you make someone give a damn about the film you have just completed. How do you make them interested enough to invest their time and money to purchase your dvd from your website and sit down and watch it!?

I think that is the question.

A lot of people, including myself make a movie. They make a damn good movie. But then it sits, collects dust and dies.

Think about it. Your name is John Doe and you just made a movie. It can be the next Pulp Fiction for all you know. But the average person out there in the world has no clue who the hell you are or what the hell your movie about. I think the important question here is how do we make that average person in the world curious as to who you are and WANT to find out and watch your movie. What can we do as filmmakers to make that person WANT to spend 10 bucks on your dvd and watch that movie.

I think this is worthy of discussion and I think all of us filmmakers Newbies and Oldies should chime in and flesh this out.

*Let's keep this DIY style. I don't want to bring in Hollywood or major distribution deals.... If you want my reasoning for this, just ask and I will gladly explain why we should start modeling our film distribution as a DIY model and stop thinking we have to rely on Hollywood to get anywhere in the world when it comes to Film distribution. :)


Thanks,

The Opus Fuller
www.theopusfuller.com
www.twitter.com/theopusfuller
 
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So, I talked to Comcast yesterday (Pittsburgh area) - I'm not sure how different this would be in your individual areas. But, anyway, I was there for a commercial client of mine and I managed to kind of get some info that might help the indie filmmakers here as well.

* The Comcast network in my area does Google ads (to answer the question above), and what they basically do (which Facebook also does, FYI) is you give them a set amount of money each month. Say you only want to spend 50 bucks a month on the ad: you give them 50 bucks and they advertise that month until you've reached $50 worth of CLICKS from your ad. Then it restarts the next month. I think they are roughly $3-5 per click. Which, if you get someone to click on the ad, they're atleast going to your site so I think that's not a bad price to pay. Facebook is much, much cheaper but doesn't work as well (you only get the small ads on the right part of your screen). But then again, it allows you to narrow your demographic to people who, say, are 18-25 and like horror films.

* Also, another great idea, IMO is just doing local advertising (especially if you are having a local screening). The price of actually advertising can be expensive, but only if you buy a lot of screen time. However, if you pick the SyFy network for example and just show your science fiction trailer maybe once a day, you're getting some valuable exposure for probably around $100 a month. And this is something that you can work with the cable companies on face-to-face, picking networks, times, marketing areas, etc. And find what fits your budget best.

* From what I could tell, each market area has an advertising channel. The one in Pittsburgh is Channel 11 and it's called the FYI channel. This is all advertising. I didn't get a price, but you can have as long of an ad, trailer, etc. you want play on this channel. The only problem is, I don't know who would watch a channel that only shows advertising - I never even knew about it until yesterday and I've had Comcast for the past 6 years.

That's all I can really think of right now that might help you guys. If you have any questions or anything, let me know and I'll elaborate on anything you need more info on. Hope this helps.
 
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So, I talked to Comcast yesterday (Pittsburgh area) - I'm not sure how different this would be in your individual areas. But, anyway, I was there for a commercial client of mine and I managed to kind of get some info that might help the indie filmmakers here as well.

* The Comcast network in my area does Google ads (to answer the question above), and what they basically do (which Facebook also does, FYI) is you give them a set amount of money each month. Say you only want to spend 50 bucks a month on the ad: you give them 50 bucks and they advertise that month until you've reached $50 worth of CLICKS from your ad. Then it restarts the next month. I think they are roughly $3-5 per click. Which, if you get someone to click on the ad, they're atleast going to your site so I think that's not a bad price to pay. Facebook is much, much cheaper but doesn't work as well (you only get the small ads on the right part of your screen). But then again, it allows you to narrow your demographic to people who, say, are 18-25 and like horror films.

* Also, another great idea, IMO is just doing local advertising (especially if you are having a local screening). The price of actually advertising can be expensive, but only if you buy a lot of screen time. However, if you pick the SyFy network for example and just show your science fiction trailer maybe once a day, you're getting some valuable exposure for probably around $100 a month. And this is something that you can work with the cable companies on face-to-face, picking networks, times, marketing areas, etc. And find what fits your budget best.

* From what I could tell, each market area has an advertising channel. The one in Pittsburgh is Channel 11 and it's called the FYI channel. This is all advertising. I didn't get a price, but you can have as long of an ad, trailer, etc. you want play on this channel. The only problem is, I don't know who would watch a channel that only shows advertising - I never even knew about it until yesterday and I've had Comcast for the past 6 years.

That's all I can really think of right now that might help you guys. If you have any questions or anything, let me know and I'll elaborate on anything you need more info on. Hope this helps.
 
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I have a few interconnected thoughts that are all over the road, so I will simply number them:

1. One thing I think indie realm needs to change for its own good is a fostering of promotion as a creative/technical role. Everyone wants to be a writer, or director or actor or DP or sound guy, but who is jumping up and down saying they want to specialize in film promotions? It’s as important as any other part of the process, but it seems to be regarded as an after thought, and in some cases as fruitful as panning for gold while being attacked by a swarm of bees.


2. I think it’s easy to individually worry about the mule going blind instead of collectively just loading the wagon.

The best 3 or 4 filmmakers here could do (just for 1 genre example) full tilit bad ass professional horror shorts, make a compilation DVD, brand it under the site name, foster and assemble a valuable promotion team, give them a screen credit with a future, then wage a cost effective grass roots print ad/word of mouth/internet campaign -on a global level.


3. Classmates, Co-workers, Brothers, Sisters, Boyfriends, Girlfriends, Best friends, Uncles, Teachers, Neighbors, Mailmen and Parents don’t really ask or likely care what niche website you looked at all that much do they? (Unless it’s porn!)

But engage those same people in nearly every major city (and many small towns) on earth, and prompt them to ask: “Where are you going?” --“What flyers?”-- “Who is that?”-- “How do you know them?”--“Is Indietalk.com Bleed between the lines. Vol. 1 some kind of a hippie death cult!?”-- “What do you mean your name is in the credits!?” --“Who do you know in film!?”-- “How can I see it?”-- “Where can I rent it?”-- “Can I help?”-- THEN you are getting out there.

It won’t make anyone a million bucks over night and part of is you have to be prepared to lose in order to win, but that is no different than at any other time. The Girl Scouts make a fortune with a simple product and a mass network of feet on the ground, not a mouse click away from promotional oblivion.


-Thanks-
 
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Interesting points, Buddy.

1 - I wish there were people who were as passionate about
marketing and promotions as I am about creating the movies. In a
way marketing and promotions is MORE important than the production
of a movie. What I have found is people who lean towards marketing
and promotions do it for the money. And there doesn’t seem to be
much money in the marketing and promotion of indie films.

2. I agree. There have been several attempts at doing this. But it
takes someone who is truly interested in marketing and promotion.
Usually the person who initiates a compilation project or
collaboration project is a director whose primary focus it their
own movie. Quite understandable.

3. Again I agree. Engaging the people is what we filmmakers need
to do. I’m not sure the Girl Scout analogy is a good one. What
they offer is something most people want - cookies. What we offer
is something few people want - an independent film made by
directors they’ve never heard of starting actors they don’t know.

As I pointed out in this very thread, even we indie filmmakers
don’t look for or buy those types of movies. And my question
asking what it takes to get US to buy an indie film was not
answered by anyone.

I hope to find that person who is as dedicated to promoting indie
films as I am to making them. I know we all do.
 
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Directorik,

While I see your point, I have to take offense at one comment - not all people in marketing and promotions are in it for the money.

I graduated with a Degree in Journalism and Film Studies and have since started a small freelance company that specializes in Media Public Relations (building websites, doing advertisements, writing and distributing press releases, newsletters, etc.) and I did it because I realize how many great small businesses and non-profits never get any recognition other than by word of mouth (mostly because PR companies typically charge way too much). I would really like to move into a position where we'd be able to help independent filmmakers spread word of their films, however, we haven't gotten to the point where we're ready to take that on. But it's a goal of mine and hopefully there are enough filmmakers in the Pittsburgh area to take advantage of our services.

I read up on this stuff constantly, not only as a filmmaker myself, but as someone who wants to help filmmakers find new avenues and audiences for an affordable rate.

Sorry to sound like an advertisement, but I just wanted to throw that out there.
 
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danjfiore said:
While I see your point, I have to take offense at one comment - not all people in marketing and promotions are in it for the money.
Click to expand...
Athough I can understand your point, when it comes to promotion & marketing, et al, I want someone who's in it for the money, if you know what I mean. :lol:

As my grandfather used to tell me - "Big money is a byproduct of being one of the best at what you do."

Am I in it for the money? You bet! But the reason I believe I can make living at my chosen career (audio post) is that I love what I do and I have a passion for what I do besides having the talent.
 
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danjfiore said:
Directorik,

While I see your point, I have to take offense at one comment - not all people in marketing and promotions are in it for the money.
Click to expand...
Sorry about offending you. I often forget that suggesting people
want to earn a living in their field is offensive to some.
 
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It's one thing to suggest they want to make a living. It's another to imply that money is the sole motivation for what they do. But, offended is a much stronger word than I probably should have used.
 
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Rik,

Agreed, the Girl Scouts analogy isn’t the best, so package DVD’s with cookies? :D
I don’t know what it will take to get us to buy more Indie films.

We all like gear (I guess), so maybe part of the solution is to place some focus on specific gear or techniques used to make a film on the packaging, kind of like how “Filmed in exciting new whatever-scope” might have helped draw patrons when television was putting a dent in theater attendance. If we see something made with a RED we usually check it out, right? So maybe gear is a minor selling point?

As film makers (And I include myself under that distinction very loosely) we're all interested in budget right?

Somehow maybe budget is a selling point. “Low Budget” has become a negative connotation, yet when someone does something cool on the cheap they are given praise. If I saw like.. “The best damn 47 dollar film of all time!” OR.. “An epic tale of seduction, deceit and a 98 dollar budget.” on a DVD package, I’m in for at least 5 bucks.

I think not only as film makers, but as fans and consumers we demand (or long for) truer expectations to be placed on genre.

My money feels like fuck Disney’s Serial Killers on Ice PG 13 wide appeal watered down joke ass nonsense. It’s not my problem that a big budget has to be recouped. My problem is finding exploding tits on a foul mouth demon ready to bust a hole in this world and fuck it.

I don’t want to say “Oh great, another big douche-athon Saw flick for my little brother to roll his eyes at!” I want to be able to tell people “I think some MFer escaped a mental institution to make this, and the cinematography is kick ass too!”

If it’s horror, I want to be worse off than I was before watching it, not poorer. I think Indie can reach some hardcore genre fans and give them what they want in a well crafted way, and make money doing it. I mentioned branding in my other post, I think that is important. In some circles all you have to do is say “Troma” and the fans unite.


-Thanks-
 
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I also think Genre has a lot to do with how seriously (or maybe just interested) someone takes an independent film.

Horror films, although they are not really "marketable" in a hollywood sense, are probably a lot more secure in terms of making their money back than anything else. I say this because, low-budget horror films are a huge deal. Whether they are so good despite their low budget or so horrible because of their low budget, there will always be a fan base out there that wants to see it (although their reasons for being interested might clash with your initial goals). Although, at the same time, I think (and this is a very general statement) that there are a LOT more low-budget horror films than dramas, comedies, and scifi (features, anyway). So there's certainly more to sift through. But with the dramas and comedies, there is very rarely a lot of people interested in seeing them unless they are of great quality. People seem to be so much more forgiving in terms of horror, but that might because they enjoy mocking the low-budget aspects of that genre.
 
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Questions about aspects of actor driven promotion.

We all see the A-Listers on everything plugging their new movie, but what avenues do Indies have that fellow Indies can frequent and support for their own good? There must be web radio shows, web series interview shows and college radio that actors can call into or if they are close appear on to promote, right?

Can these avenues be structured as “Making the rounds” like a press tour for actors to talk about the film they are in? Would this kind of attention not appeal to actors at the Indie level?

I am sure many do, but should MORE Indie film makers make it standard operating procedure to shoot their own on-set interviews with the actors to use solely as promotional fodder once the film is released?

Can all of those interviews be compiled into a web site with trailers and sales info that we can all check out to get a feel for what is out there? Can a site like that be parlayed into an Indie Netflix scenario or an Indie film of the month club?

I think people often connect or are taken in and charmed by the personalities or views of some actors off screen (in interview settings), then seek out their films. I think interviews can translate into interest, sales and further opportunities for the actors.

-Thanks-
 
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Buddy,
That's a pretty great idea. I really like the idea of a single Indie-based promotion site. While it might be a little hard to do a Netflix-like operation, it certainly would be a great idea to have a single location where filmmakers can have a single page (sort of like an Indie-only IMDB) and have as much info as they want on there. They would manage it themselves, posting blog entries, uploading trailers and have other promotional materials. I think this would be a great way to reach all people interested in Indie film and have one place where they can find generally anything they might want to in the Indie realm. It would also make sense to have an option to sort the productions by area so people can find indie productions near where they live. I'm really liking this idea.
 
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danjfiore said,
* The Comcast network in my area does Google ads (to answer the question above), and what they basically do (which Facebook also does, FYI) is you give them a set amount of money each month. Say you only want to spend 50 bucks a month on the ad: you give them 50 bucks and they advertise that month until you've reached $50 worth of CLICKS from your ad. Then it restarts the next month. I think they are roughly $3-5 per click. Which, if you get someone to click on the ad, they're atleast going to your site so I think that's not a bad price to pay. Facebook is much, much cheaper but doesn't work as well (you only get the small ads on the right part of your screen). But then again, it allows you to narrow your demographic to people who, say, are 18-25 and like horror films.
Click to expand...

Thanks, dan, great information, and I agree with you that that doesn't sound like such a bad deal, at all.

directorik said,
As I pointed out in this very thread, even we indie filmmakers
don’t look for or buy those types of movies. And my question
asking what it takes to get US to buy an indie film was not
answered by anyone.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think that was and is again a pretty piercing point (heheh, sorry). Maybe we wouldn't like the answer, though.

I think you all are right about the need for passionate promoting ( ...ug, there I go again). Of course, you want to make films, yourself, dan, but you also sound like just such a person who, in directorik's words... " ...is truly interested in marketing and promotion." Sounds like the beginning of a beau... , well.

Yeah, the indie-based promotional site does sound nice... a lot like what My Space was supposed to be for muscians, right?

I don't know, what do you do in a world in which the common wisdom has become that the world has lost interest in independent films? And yay, to complicate things more, we have the Great Recession which some say may last a decade. When James Cameron was promoting Avatar on the Tavis Smiley Show, Tavis asked him why he was making a "giant" movie when not so long ago Hollywood was saying, no more. Cameron said something like, well, audiences have shown over the past decade that what they want is big budget extravaganzas... and the decade before that, and the decade before that, and the decade before that. Oh, this paragraph may better belong on another thread about finding financing, but I'll leave it, anyways. :P I guess my point is that it may be tougher than ever to get people to take interest in your low budget indie enough to actually shell out some $ for it. :( But danjfiore's company sounds like it might be just the medicine to try.
 
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Buddy Greenfield said:
Rik,

Agreed, the Girl Scouts analogy isn’t the best, so package DVD’s with cookies?
Click to expand...
Gimmicks worked for William Castle...

I know the gear/tech method doesn’t work for me. I don’t choose
the movies I watch based on the gear use or the budgets. I
couldn’t care less if a movie was shot on RED.

But I wonder if maybe you’ve hit on something. I think if I saw
the “98 dollar” tag on a DVD box I might be more likely to pick it
up. But it would have to be a pretty amazingly low amount - like
$98. I don’t think I’d give a second glance to another $7,000
movie. And the selling point is an issue, too. You say you’d drop
five bucks. Maybe if we sell our movies for five bucks....

The genre films have always been the bread and butter of indie
movies. Horror, Sci-Fi and comedy have done well. But even that is
dropping off as so many terrible, now budget horror films saturate
the market. Even Troma’s sales are way down because they haven’t
made a killer films in years.

Clearly word of mouth is the way. But how do I get you to see that
movie I made that will get you to tell others you think I escaped
from a mental institution? You gotta see it before you can
recommend it.

Buddy Greenfield said:
Questions about aspects of actor driven promotion.

We all see the A-Listers on everything plugging their new movie, but what avenues do Indies have that fellow Indies can frequent and support for their own good? There must be web radio shows, web series interview shows and college radio that actors can call into or if they are close appear on to promote, right?

Can these avenues be structured as “Making the rounds” like a press tour for actors to talk about the film they are in? Would this kind of attention not appeal to actors at the Indie level?
Click to expand...

This comes back to my original point. Do you believe the average
movie buyer/goer is interested in actors they’ve never heard of
talking about a movie? I don’t think so, but I’d love to be wrong.
Just the fact that you don’t know if these avenues even exist (and
I don’t either) says we aren’t very interested in learning about
indie films.

And we’re indie filmmakers.

richy, I believe you’re right. We don’t like the answer we give,
so we tend to avoid answering it. Even us indie filmmakers, who
want people to buy our movies don’t buy movies from our peers. And
I’m limiting my definition of “indie” in this case to what most of
here are doing - low budget movies with no name stars, made
completely on spec.

I suspect (and I have no data to support this) that there are
200,000 people out there who are either making movies or talking
about making independent movies. Imagine if each of them (and that
includes every one of us who post here) would buy just ONE “indie”
movie a month. Say a movie offered by CreateSpace,FlickRocket or
IndieFilmDepot. 200,000 movie a month at $10 would generate
$24,000,000 a year in sales. And if 200,000 movies a month were
purchased from those sites the market would change.

So, to me, it starts with us. If we aren’t the market, who is?
 
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What if there was a website, ONE major website, that was created solely created for the sale and exposure of independent film.

Say, "ShopIndie.com - A one stop shopping site for independent film."

Every indie filmmaker could list their film on the site. For ease of reading, put 2 movies per page with the following:

Picture of cover art
Teaser Trailer
Title/Tagline
brief Synopsis
Name of company/producer/director/writer/actors
Price
"Buy It Now" button or link that directs customer to the actual place of purchase i.e. Amazon/personal site/etc.

Separate by genre, keep titles alphabetical.

That's it. Simple, effective. Anyone's film can be listed.
 
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