Will I benefit from filmschool?

J

Jardoss

Hey fellow filmfriends!
Recently, i've been thinking a lot about whether I need filmschool, or not. As you all know, the fee for a 3 year education as a director is skyhigh.

As a 16 year old, I feel I master the basics of storytelling and film to be at my age. (writing a 90 minute feature to be shot with RED ONE at the moment. Managed to get my hands on 7-10 000$).

However, the reason I would go to filmschool would be networking, and of course, learn how the pros do it. I read A LOT of books, and learn a huuuge amount. I also have a few connections with some directors, and have some connections within the film industry. I want to know more about filmmaking, but feel I am able to simply read my way to the same knowledge, or analyze enough?

My biggest problem is this: How am I supposed to make film, which requires a tremendous amount of time, without starving in the process?

Will I benefit from filmschool? Or is there a way to succeed without doing so?
And say I go to filmschool, what happens next?

This is my plan, if I decide to go to filmschool:
I want to learn the mainstream american blockbuster way of directing a movie. This way I'll know exactly how to tell a story, and what needs to be done to present an idea for an audience.
When ive mastered this, i wanna break it apart, and make my own style. Which school would grant me this wish?

I know these are questions that'll probably sound stupid to some of you. But I really really wanna spend the rest of my life making movies, and telling stories :)

(UPDATE: the feature I'm working on just released a trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Dv-iayj0zU&feature=plcp )

Looking forward to hear from you,
Jarand B. Herdal
 
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My biggest problem is this: How am I supposed to make film, which requires a tremendous amount of time, without starving in the process?

Will I benefit from filmschool? Or is there a way to succeed without doing so?
And say I go to filmschool, what happens next?
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If you choose to go to a film school just don't go to a 4-year college to major in film. I'd take a six month course then start working long hours for very little. That's the indie film business.
Making a movie is a rich person's game. Most indie movies LOOK like their budget and lose a lot of money.
If you're concerned about starvation and earning a living then pick a real major like law or something. Sorry to be a pessimist but entering this field has great risks. It's like people who go to the Musician's Institute to be pro musicians or major in drama to be an actor. How many of those people will actually earn a living at it? Not many. They wait tables.
 
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Sorry for commenting off-topic, but could you tell me any good books to read that you said you read and learned a lot? I'm looking for good quality books right now, so it would be a huge favor for me. ;)
 
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A business degree is NOT stupid. I don't see how anyone can think that way.

I'll tell you what I know and repeat what others have told me:

Go to film school if you want, but know that it won't lead to you making big budget hollywood movies. Jobs in film require experience, connections, and a reel, not a degree. Film school is an option to gaining those things, but its not the only way. You'll probably end up doing small jobs on various sets, such as a PA or grip.

I suggest, get a good degree that can keep you employed. Use your spare time, and money from your job to make films. Get some shorts done, and promote them (film festivals, social media, etc.)

You might find investors or maybe a studio will notice you so then you can make a nice feature. I don't think the chances of that are very high, unless you're very, very talented and have good connections.

However, if film school is the way for you, some schools to consider: USC, NYU, UCLA all have top notch, world renowned film programs.

Chapman University also has a very good program that is gaining a lot of recognition. There's plenty of other schools that offer film majors but may not be as strong. Search old threads here.
 
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There is no easy answer. It depends on you, the film school and what you want.

Film school:
PROS:

Connections. I made contacts that landed me a lot of work right out of school. I shot over 10 features from these contacts

A degree - Comes in handy as a back-up plan if filmmaking doesn't work out or you need a day job for a while to pay for your film or living expenses. I ended up teaching filmmaking classes and that degree helped get those jobs. Also, maybe you can land a job doing corporate video to pay the bills. They like to see a degree.

A well rounded person - At your age I would have jumped at a 1-2 year school that only had film classes. Looking back a few decades, I think that would have been a mistake. I can see that I'm a more well rounded person because of the classes I had to take outside of filmmaking. Yeah, some of the were a waste of time, but some came in handy in screenwriting. I would try to find classes that fit filmmaking like English classes on writing and theatre classes so I could learn more about acting.

Give you time to mature - I know that I really needed the time to mature as a storyteller and find my own voice.

CONS:

Time: Four years or longer.

BS classes: Have to take classes outside of filmmaking.

Expensive: Four years of school ain't cheap, but again that piece of paper can land you a job.

Which school: If you pick a good school, it's great with connections and great classes. If you pick a bad school with bad gear and lackluster teachers, you're wasting time.


Life is what you make it. I went to a film school that was in decline, but I never took no for an answer. I made friends with the top filmmakers in my class, proved to the teachers that I was good which allowed me to get access to better gear and lived and breathed filmmaking.

The joy of film school is you are surrounded by people who are passionate about filmmaking.

ON THE JOB FILMMAKING

This can work, but you need to find a specific skill like shooter, audio, editing, etc that will make you money to live between film projects. You can shoot commercials, edit corporate videos, run audio for other filmmakers for money. If you want to be a general filmmaker, then you'll have a harder time making money because you don't have a specific skill to offer.

Some people can make this work, but I've only seen a few. Sometimes you can get type cast as the gaffer or sound guy and people won't take you serious as a director.

Scott
 
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I went to film school. I really enjoyed the experience. I found it very beneficial and pushed my abilities far faster than learning on my own would have done on the internet. I now have a network of motivated people who find me useful on set. I have a WIDE exposure to world cinema and historical cinema and cinema history and theory and hands on experience and a portfolio and... I received more of this in the 2 years of that major program than I had the other 8 years I've been doing this on my own with the exception of portfolio (although the footage since school is much better than it was before).

If the folks deriding film school have been through film school -- they may have gone to a bad one or simply had a bad experience with the program, that happens sometimes... If not, they have no basis for argument. I would accept "I'm currently making money working in film without film school" or "I choose not to go to film school because I would rather spend my money on productions and learn at my own pace"... but folks who haven't gone who say it's worthless... haven't gone.

You get out what you put in... insist on a good experience and help facilitate that at all opportunities. Remember that in school, you are the consumer, you are paying for an education... if you don't feel you're receiving it, there are "correct" methods in place to help recoup those losses (a smile and pleasant demeanor help alot in those negotiations).

Help out everyone you can and WORK on their sets. The one person who really goes for it and makes it will drag you along with as all of the rest of the college age folks treat it like it's just another fleeting experience and don't show the work ethic and maturity that it takes to work on a film set. Align yourself with the students and faculty who will benefit you in the future. Work hard with them.

Look into more than just one or two schools, look for one that you fit well into. You'll reap the most benefits from it. Ask to see their REEL! If they can't show you good work being produced at their school, they're probably not worth taking classes from.
 
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Blade_Jones said:
I guess we'll agree to disagree. I say you can learn about how to run a business by reading a few books and/ or taking a semester or two of classes.
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Understand that business school, especially at the graduate and higher levels, opens a lot of doors. That may be better put, as it keeps doors from closing. There are lots of positions where they won't even speak to you without the piece of paper. The merit of the paper can be debated, but the fact that it acts as a gate keeper can't.


Also, I don't understand why people don't maximize their credits at an approved community college before transferring to a 4 year degree granting institution. There is no need to not work and take out massive loans to put a degree in place.

For the OP, if film school is where your head is at, then do it. From a practical standpoint, it may be beneficial t minor in film while pursuing another field. These do not have to be all that diverse, i.e. maybe you could invest in becoming a cg artist? Related and marketable.

As a general note, low level IT positions offer a wide variety of unique schedules and decent pay with relatively low barrier to entry. If you're strictly thinking of how can I eat while making movies (or going to school full time, etc.), late night technical support isn't too bad.

Also, depending on where you live, many community colleges allow high school students to take courses or offer AP courses that allow you test for college credit.

It is a good time to get rid of the typical BS fluff classes at a low level of cost / effort. My younger brother is finishing high school with 32 college credits. That is a huge leg up and allows you to focus on the more directly relevant material.
 
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Jardoss said:
However, as I've mentioned, I just made my first feature.
Going through pos-prod as we speak, I'd like to share the trailer here, and get some feedback :)

Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Dv-iayj0zU
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The film looks like it was shot very well, and the premise seems highly intriguing. However, some of the shots in the trailer felt like they were cut too soon before my eyes could register what I was looking at. The quick fades to black are a cool technique, but they were used so much in the trailer that it became really distracting, especially in the end when they were happening more and more, faster and faster. I almost couldn't pay attention to the rest of it. Your film's story seems fairly complex and it would be a shame to take away from setting it up with something as simple as too many quick cuts.

Video Production
 
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Judging from that trailer, you don't need film school.


(but take out the names from the trailer. people don't know those names, but the text makes it seem like famous peoples' names should be there)
 
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The schools that have the top film programs in America are:
-University of Southern California(USC)
-New York University(NYU)
-University of California Los Angeles(UCLA)
-Columbia University
-Chapman University
-Wesleyan University

These are universities so it will take you 4 years to obtain a Bachelors degree. The cost of these universities is around $60,000 per year! They are very expensive and the cost at most universities has been rising each year so these are just going to get even more expensive each year. You also must have very good grades to get into these schools. You are going to need to have at least a 3.5 out of a 4.0 GPA if you want to have a chance at getting accepted to one of these schools. Your ACT or SAT scores are going to need to be very strong also. It is very difficult to get into these schools film program they are very competitive. At universities how the curriculum for a Bachelors degree works is during your first two years of school you take mainly general education courses like math, english, science, social studies and foreign language courses. Then during your final two years you will be taking mainly your major courses and your major would be Film Production.

I WOULD NOT GO TO A UNIVERSITY FILM PROGRAM!
During my senior year of high school I did a lot of research on film schools before I made my decision not to attend and I am very happy I did not go to film school. I would read what I have to say below before you make your decision. It's pretty helpful advice and could save you a lot of money! These film schools today are a rip off!

During my research I came across several people who all said the same thing. They said that back in the day film school was a great investment and had advantages BUT today film school is a horrible investment that does not have many advantages. You see back in the day during the 60's, 70's, 80's and some of the 90's before digital filmmaking came out making films was expensive. The equipment was expensive and hard to get your hands on. So back then for a lot of people the most affordable way to get your hands on equipment so you could practice filmmaking was to attend film school. And back then film school was a lot cheaper than it is today. It was a great investment because you were using equipment and making short films that cost a lot more than what you were paying to attend! Today though in this era it's the complete opposite! People are paying a whole lot more to attend film school than what it costs for equipment and to make films and that is why film school is a horrible investment now. Today you can get a new DSLR camera or prosumer camcorder for around $1,000-$5,000 that will give you a high quality picture. A lot of these film schools even the top schools like NYU and USC use prosumer camcorders that are around this price range and these cameras are beat up because they have been used by a lot of students. Most schools are not using Hollywood type camera's that cost tens of thousands of dollars. You could get Final Cut Pro X editing software for $300. Most of these film schools use Final Cut Pro X. For good sound equipment(mic, boom pole, recorder) that cost would be around lets say $1,000 maybe even cheaper. So you could get your basic equipment(camera, sound, editing software) you need to make films for $6,000 or less and your films will be the same quality of films you make at film school! Also for lighting you could just get work lights from Home Depot that will work fine and save you a lot of money. Today you can make a low budget feature length film for less than the cost of one semester at a university film program! Your making a low budget feature on a Red ONE camera for $7,000-$10,000! See that's a lot cheaper than the cost of one semester at a university film program! So basically film schools today are a horrible investment since you can make a good looking feature film for less than the cost of one semester of film school.

NETWORKING
You do not need to go to a top university film program to build connections! The truth is most film school grads do not end up with there dream job. Most film school students are unemployed after they graduate and end up going into a different industry. Some end up unemployed for years! There are film school grads who get a job in the industry but it's a low paying job that almost anyone with a high school diploma can get. With a high school diploma you could get a job as a production assistant and build great connections thru the job! You could attend the major film festivals and meet people. If you live in Los Angeles, California then you could just walk outside your house and make connections! A person who does not attend film school can easily make the same amount of connections that a person who attends a top film school makes! Also going to film school does not give you any advantages in the industry there's no educational requirements in the industry it's all about talent.

FILM SCHOOL & THE INDUSTRY ARE VERY RISKY!
The film industry is very competitive and very hard to get into! The odds are against you! Like I said already most film school grads do not end up with there dream job and end up going into a different industry. So let's say you go to film school and graduate with a Bachelors degree in Film Production. When you graduate you will have at least $100,000 in student loan debt. Now there's a very large chance you won't get your dream job or a job close to it. If that happens which there's a good chance it will your really going to struggle. Your going to have $100,000 or more in loan debt and a Bachelors degree in Film Production which does not have much value! The risks are way too big in this economy! BE SMART AND DO NOT GO TO A UNIVERSITY FILM PROGRAM! Go to a cheap 3 or 6 month film production program where you get a certificate when you complete it. THE REALLY SMART THING TO DO IS HAVE A BACKUP PLAN! I would go to college but not for film. Go to college and get a bachelors degree in something other than film and practice filmmaking on the side. This way if you don't get the job you want in the film industry you'll have a good backup plan.

HOW DO YOU GET INTO THE INDUSTRY?
There are many different paths into the industry but the main path for aspiring directors seems to be thru film festivals. What I did was I researched over a dozen Hollywood directors. I mainly read there bibliography to find out how they got into the industry and I noticed a pattern among most of these directors. What a lot of them did is they raised money and made a low budget indie feature film and submitted it to major film festivals like Sundance an so on and the film ended up getting accepted into a major film festival and the film did well and there talent got noticed and they started getting offers from Hollywood studios to direct films and calls from talent agents looking to represent them! There are Hollywood talent agents, studio executives, producers, directors and actors who attend these major film festivals there's some top people from the industry at these festivals. Film festivals are a great way for you to get discovered and make connections! Also there's distributors at most of these major film festivals who could want to buy your feature film and release it in theaters and you can make some decent money!

YOU DO NOT NEED TO ATTEND FILM SCHOOL TO LEARN HOW THE PRO'S DIRECT!
There's a lot of top Hollywood directors who did not attend film school. Here's a list of some Hollywood directors that did not attend film school:
Stanley Kubrick
Orson Welles
Alfred Hitchcock
John Ford
Woody Allen-Attended NYU film school but flunked out after his first semester!
Steven Spielberg-Applied 2 or 3 times to USC and was denied every time! Ended up going to Cal. State but dropped out after a couple years.
James Cameron
Quentin Tarantino
Christopher Nolan
Clint Eastwood
Paul Thomas Anderson
Wes Anderson
Sam Raimi
Kevin Smith
Jason Reitman

I have no clue why most people today go to film school and rack up $100,000+ in student loan debt when they could just get a full time job that pays $7 or $8 an hour after they graduate high school and within a year they could buy good basic equipment to make films and also buy books and instructional DVD's! Film school today is just not worth it!
 
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Judging by the trailer to your film, you'll find film school quite frustrating, given that most of your classmates will be fairly rich kids who've enjoyed watching a few films but have no practical experience (massive generalisation, I know).

This forum tends to sway towards the 'no film school' line of advice and I think that's probably right. But because you're in Europe, university is a hell of a lot cheaper and you really ought to do it. It doesn't matter whether you're studying film or anything else, you'll have a great time and you'll be employable afterwards. Win win!
 
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I disagree with all who say resoundingly and vehemently that you should 'DEFINITELY NOT go to film school'. Usually these people have not been to film school themselves, and are sometimes quite jaded by the industry as a whole.

Having been to film school, both as a degree program and also the summer program at USC a while ago, I can tell you that it 100% worth it. The contacts you make, and the opportunities you get are second to none. There are a whole lot of BS classes, but the ones that count and matter are the ones you get the most out of.

You definitely don't have to go to film school, but I think it can be very advantageous.

jmm124567 said:
The schools that have the top film programs in America are:
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I'd also add AFI

Today you can get a new DSLR camera or prosumer camcorder for around $1,000-$5,000 that will give you a high quality picture.
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What's the point if you don't know how to use it?

A lot of these film schools even the top schools like NYU and USC use prosumer camcorders that are around this price range and these cameras are beat up because they have been used by a lot of students.
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Perhaps in first year, but I've seen a whole bunch of USC grad stuff shot on 35mm, Red Epic, Red Scarlet etc. I know USC own a whole bunch of F3s, and are looking into purchasing some Red Epics. They also have some S16mm cameras, though film is being phased out there.

You could get Final Cut Pro X editing software for $300.
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And learn to use software that will do you no use in the industry as professionals as a whole moved off it to Adobe or Avid.

Most of these film schools use Final Cut Pro X.
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No. USC for one uses full copies of Avid Media Composer.

Today you can make a low budget feature length film for less than the cost of one semester at a university film program! Your making a low budget feature on a Red ONE camera for $7,000-$10,000!
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Or you could make a whole lot of short films at film school with real cameras, real lighting, real sound equipment, real editing equipment, and real crew, and end up with a finished product that's better than anything you could produce as a 'low budget feature' from a bunch of kids, or alternately you can be the DP yourself, rather than having to hire someone in because you have no idea how to make an image look good.

The truth is most film school grads do not end up with there dream job. Most film school students are unemployed after they graduate
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You mean most people in general, and it does not matter whether they went to college or not.

Some end up unemployed for years!
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As do many high school grads ;)

With a high school diploma you could get a job as a production assistant and build great connections thru the job!
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Just as you could out of film school, and in fact possibly while you're still in film school. Except then you'd have connection with your teachers, lecturers, industry professionals and your fellow classmates. I constantly get calls from my old classmates and even my old professors asking me to work on this or that project that they're shooting or directing

There's a lot of top Hollywood directors who did not attend film school. Here's a list of some Hollywood directors that did not attend film school:
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And here are a list of noteable Hollywood professionals who did attend film school, either in an undergraduate or postgraduate type course:
Judd Apatow
Ron Howard
Doug Liman
George Lucas
Bryan Singer
Lee Unkrich
Robert Zemeckis
Darren Aronofsky
David Lynch
Terrence Malick
Francis Ford Coppola
Alexander Payne
Jeff Cronenweth
William Fraker
Conrad Hall
Janusz Kaminski
Wally Pfister
Gore Verbinski

etc etc etc.

Now film school is definitely not a must and there are those in the industry from both sides of the coin, but IMO, I think it can definitely be worth it.
In a way, film school taught me to be an industry professional before I stepped into the real industry, and it allowed me to figure out where my interests lay so that I could then realise I wanted to be a Cinematographer, make some nice films in film school and then push me out into the industry to work my way up via ACing. If I'd just gone and PA'd on things, I fear I'd still be PAing now, or worse: ADing :| (kudos to all you ADs out there ;))

There are arguments for both sides of the coin, but film school does more for you than just have you make a film. Which is why I disagree with the arguments that say 'but just make your own on a DSLR and it'll be just like film school but better!' (paraphrasing a little ;)) because that's completely untrue.
 
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I setup an account just to weigh in on this debate. What I'd say is never do anything from a place of fear, follow your heart. With that out of the way, this industry is built on "your angle & your story". If you want to be an indie maverick, never go to film school and never compromise.

You've got heaps of talent, if I was your manager. I'd say; instead of spending any money on film school hire a PUBLICIST. A good one. And take the world by storm as the "16 year prodigy" who made a kickarse feature film on 10k. Be the emblem for the DIY Generation. You represent an entire sect of people who can and have learned almost everything they know themselves and online and came through (with what looks like) a really decent product.

That's how you get attention, that's how you make it, "by working an angle that's true & unique to you". There's nothing interesting about the kid that went to film school and bounced around in a few below the line jobs, then finally got his break. Pretty original, huh? People don't know how to find their story and sell them self. That's why they fail to take off.

Cut to the core of this thing and go big, if you trigger a few film festivals, grab a shit hot publicist and you'll be well on your way before you even finish high school. And you'll probably get money to make your next movie if you get even a tiny bit of media attention.

Just so you know, I dropped out of film school and have been leveraging the "Australian kid who went to American film school, then dropped out to come home and make stories for and in his own country". And while I've only done a couple of shorts, that original angle was highly effective for news outlets in Australia and I've never failed to get coverage when I've produced good work.

If you wanna make it, brand yourself, find who you are and ride the wave, keep it consistent until you need to reinvent yourself. And also don't be afraid to try anything new. If you told me 6 months ago that I'd make a 4 minute dance film shot in the Outback that people would rant/rave about, I would of laughed at you, but I did it and I'm better for it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JopaAZgftCA

Good luck sir, I'm rooting for you!
 
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