Well well

[James Rogers]

Hello there, Indietalk people; Sean, Nate, Mike C., Chris T., Mara....

It's been a while. I haven't had time to scan the board to see what everyone's been up to, but I can see at a glance that Nate is still busy with his super cool project. Keep it up, my friend...

I wasn't getting anywhere with my film making endeavors so I took a break to write a novel. I just finished the first draft. Now, I'll probably spend the next 3 to 6 months on the second draft before I pass it off to a couple of editors, one of whom is my son. I had never written a novel before, so I did not know what to expect going in. So far, It's been more fun than I had imagined. The first draft is 123,000 words, which is approximately 400 pages, depending on formatting. There's no money in it. I decided to write the novel, then pay to have 100 hard cover copies printed to be sold or given away-just to let the world know I was here. I may approach an agent to see if there could be any interest in the book, but that's not a part of my immediate plan. The novel is about a 13th century French witch.

Well, I don't have much to say. I'm not even sure why I stopped by after all this time. I suppose I just wanted to see in anything had changed in the last 7 months... later

 

[indietalk]

Hey yo!

 

[Nate North]

I think when you left my average output frame looked like this

Then yesterday my output frames looked like this

So there's the 7 months in a nutshell from my perspective.

New book sounds cool. 400 pages is a really solid run length. What's the vibe of this thing? Is it historical fiction, or supernatural fiction? Basically you have two kinds of witch books, one where they can't do magic, and one where they actually can. Typically very different books.

 

[James Rogers]

My witch is pure evil. She has her reasons though. Yes, she has powers, and she uses them, but her main power is the power of persuasion.
I suppose I'd say it's supernatural horror on the surface though there are a lot of subtleties. If you take away the horror aspect of the story, then it's really a story about choice. I should also mention that if the witch is the star, then sex is the co-star. I can talk more freely about it after I have it copyrighted. I'll do that after I complete the 2nd draft, before I turn it over to the editors.

Your renderings are looking better and better! Way to go, man!
Keen tools has a plug in for Nuke that allows you to easily model a human head off of pictures of any person you choose. Keen has a suite of tools that allow you to model, then track the head over video of the actor performing. It will track and record the deformations in the mesh that it helped you model and texture. Check it out. It's kind of the low end version of what they did in the Netflix film The Irishman. What they did with De Niro and Pesci in that film blew my mind. I had to go out and buy it on Blu-Ray just so I could study it frame by frame.

 

[mlesemann]

Good to see you on here! And congrats on the book - very cool indeed.

 

[sfoster]

Hi James

In the last seven months I made a Zapp Brannigan costume.

 

[indietalk]

The guy from Scrubs?

 

[James Rogers]

Good to see you on here! And congrats on the book - very cool indeed.

Thank you, Mara.

 

[Scoopicman]

I took a break to write a novel. I just finished the first draft. Now, I'll probably spend the next 3 to 6 months on the second draft before I pass it off to a couple of editors, one of whom is my son. I had never written a novel before, so I did not know what to expect going in. So far, It's been more fun than I had imagined. The first draft is 123,000 words, which is approximately 400 pages

That is fricken fantastic!

 

[Spike]

Hey! In the last seven months I haven't done much but work on my spreadsheet, a master self-categorizing to-do list sorted under various acronyms:

TCB, take care of business--contact student loan people. It's been 30 years and I think they're beginning to realize it is a blood/stone situation. Thank god there is no longer a debtors prison.

GSD: get something done. Mow lawn, water plants, do laundry, etc.

PFIT: physical fitness. Do 100 sit-ups a day. Go to Y every day. All that crap.

MFIT: mental fitness. Try to meditate (I'd rather drink muddy water and sleep in a hollow log. Oh well. ) Try to be mindful of mindfulness (whatever the f that means), Find a MHP (mental health professional) who will write me a scrip for a pill that will make me a better person. Etc.

anyway. Cool about the book. A real and impressive accomplishment.

 

[James Rogers]

Update
I just finished the 3rd draft of the book. It's interesting that writing a book is much like sculpting in clay. You can look at the first draft as roughing in the design. The 2nd draft, like sculpting, is about fixing and refining. The 3rd draft is just more refining. I'm doing a lot of the editing with the help of my son, Alex, who is brilliant and insightful. I can't afford a professional editor. I suppose there is no limit to the number of drafts a book can go through, but I hope I can call it done by the 5th draft. My biggest fear is not that the story will not be understood or that its structure will collapse, but rather, that not all the typos will be found! I have nightmares about publishing a limited editing hardcover then discovering on the day the UPS person delivers them, and I open a copy to page 1, that there is a typo!!

Anyway, I think I'm ready to start the 'line edit', which is when you go through the manuscript sentence by sentence to evaluate its correctness. That should be interesting, to put on the brakes and read 1 sentence at a time, having no regard for the story. I do take comfort in knowing that novels are considered informal writing, and that there have been plenty of authors who's books contained less than perfect grammar. I call it writing acrobatics. You assume they made their choices consciously, based on their sensibilities and style, and willingness to bend or break the rules, but maybe, just maybe, they were errors missed by the editors.

 

[James Rogers]

The project is moving swimmingly along. Life gets in the way sometimes, and I had to put the book on the back burner for a few weeks, but I'm back. I looked into hiring a professional copy editor and line editor to polish my manuscript, but the cost!! Around $7,000!!! I don't know what to think about that. On one hand, I see myself as an Indie-novelist. I'm going to self-publish 100 hard cover copies. The editing, if I hired a pro, would cost more than the printing of the books, times Three! On the other hand, well there is no other hand. I can't afford to spend that much money. I think I'm going to rely on me, my son, and editing software such as PerfectIt and Grammarly. Wonderful software that does more than just point out questionable sentences. It help you adhere to a style and stay consistent throughout the story.

The manuscript has gone from 125,000 words down to 118,000. I was expecting that. Characters have been dropped, or rewritten. Same with subplots. I agree with Stephen King, who said you should write the first draft as quickly as possible. Like throwing up, just get it out of your system. I found out that the real fun starts after the first draft. That is when you start to transform your pile of poorly worded thoughts into something better..

 

[sfoster]

The project is moving swimmingly along. Life gets in the way sometimes, and I had to put the book on the back burner for a few weeks, but I'm back. I looked into hiring a professional copy editor and line editor to polish my manuscript, but the cost!! Around $7,000!!! I don't know what to think about that. On one hand, I see myself as an Indie-novelist. I'm going to self-publish 100 hard cover copies. The editing, if I hired a pro, would cost more than the printing of the books, times Three! On the other hand, well there is no other hand. I can't afford to spend that much money. I think I'm going to rely on me, my son, and editing software such as PerfectIt and Grammarly. Wonderful software that does more than just point out questionable sentences. It help you adhere to a style and stay consistent throughout the story.

The manuscript has gone from 125,000 words down to 118,000. I was expecting that. Characters have been dropped, or rewritten. Same with subplots. I agree with Stephen King, who said you should write the first draft as quickly as possible. Like throwing up, just get it out of your system. I found out that the real fun starts after the first draft. That is when you start to transform your pile of poorly worded thoughts into something better..

I don't know hte specifics, but look into an AI solution. it's perfect for that sort of thing.
there are some that have large memory youcan use and it will read your entire novel at once and analyze the whole thing as a cohesive whole

and we're talking under a hundred bucks.
You want to keep it on the leash of course, not let it do all the thinking for you, but its sure great at pointing out flaws and things to consider from an editing standpoint

 

[Nate North]

I don't know hte specifics, but look into an AI solution. it's perfect for that sort of thing.
there are some that have large memory youcan use and it will read your entire novel at once and analyze the whole thing as a cohesive whole

and we're talking under a hundred bucks.
You want to keep it on the leash of course, not let it do all the thinking for you, but its sure great at pointing out flaws and things to consider from an editing standpoint

I was going to say the same thing, but you said it first. You can even customize an AI to edit the book with specific goals in mind, which is significant. Try out some experiments with smaller volumes of text. Test various goals and see what happens.

In response to James

If you think about it as a more advanced spellchecker, rather than a "writing machine" it becomes very useful. What is that 7k editor going to do if you hire them? He or she would apply their own intelligence and experience to slightly refabricating your original writing to a format more aligned with your meta goals. That's exactly what the AI would do. It's just cheaper. So the idea that using the AI is "cheating" is valid only if you concede that the idea of hiring someone else to help you is "cheating". Either way, you didn't edit it, and are getting some credit for work you didn't do. Personally I don't validate any creativity purchased as legitimate. It's pay to win, and it's been abolished long ago in any arena where sportsmanship is valued. You can't come from a rich family and buy another guy to help you in a boxing match, but that's exactly what happens in the films we compete against. It's not George Lucas's star wars, it's George Lucas and his 300 lackey's Star Wars. I think that gets forgotten.

At the end of the day, all indies should realize that we are not competing with another creative person. Almost every single time, we are creating against another creative person, and their 100 helpers and assistants. I don't personally feel any moral obligation to fight a 112 person studio team alone. If you define integrity as "doing everything yourself" then I'd say we're all loosing the battle to an army of wealthy people with zero integrity.

Basically my issue with people who consider AI cheating, is that it creates a situation where "having money" is the only "legitimate" way to be good at anything, considering that no single individual has ever made what we would call a good movie. (have you tried using a public restroom with a 40lb camera on a Steadicam?, I have. And who is in front of the camera if I'm behind it?) Books are different, but even then, why spend 7k on a philosophy, if you can't afford it. And if you can afford it, just admit that you're identical to those using AI, in that you manufactured an advantage with a power you had access to and some others didn't.

BTW, this is mostly a response to the other thread where you sarcastically pointed out that providing everyone with identical advantages would fill the world with people who made things identical to what used to be produced only by the "special" (that means inherited wealth, statistically) people that used to produce good content. I'm down with sarcasm, and your point is valid, but on the other hand, I see the old way, the alternative, as a Hapsburg reality in which only debutantes and princes are allowed to elevate their creativity to a level we would perceive as "talent". Filmmaking isn't singing. It's not a natural talent. It's a typically a long chain of talented people, with huge amounts of help, through the lens of a 40-300 million dollar force multiplier.

Here's how I perceive AI assistants. I used to bring a spork to a gunfight, and now I'm bringing a wrench to a gunfight. I'm still going to loose (marketing budget counts for 50% of your final grade, look it up), but at least now I have a sliver of a fighting chance. If the world gets overrun with good content, and it's hard for Jaden Smith to retain his position as one the highest paid "actors" in the world, then, you know, maybe it's time for Giancarlo Esposito to get paid at least half as much, even though he didn't have the "incredible talent and work ethic" that got his 8 year old rival a dozen times his salary. When you call everything except spending money "cheating" you cement the world into a caste system.

Sorry for the argumentative rant, I just feel strongly about the topic, and didn't have time to respond to your post on the topic a couple weeks ago. It's not an attack on you, I'm just defending my arguments, and actions, and explaining my reasons for disagreeing with the anti AI sentiment I've seen so much of.

 

[James Rogers]

At the end of the day, all indies should realize that we are not competing with another creative person. Almost every single time, we are creating against another creative person, and their 100 helpers and assistants. I don't personally feel any moral obligation to fight a 112 person studio team alone. If you define integrity as "doing everything yourself" then I'd say we're all loosing the battle to an army of wealthy people with zero integrity.


BTW, this is mostly a response to the other thread where you sarcastically pointed out that providing everyone with identical advantages would fill the world with people who made things identical to what used to be produced only by the "special" (that means inherited wealth, statistically) people that used to produce good content. I'm down with sarcasm, and your point is valid, but on the other hand, I see the old way, the alternative, as a Hapsburg reality in which only debutantes and princes are allowed to elevate their creativity to a level we would perceive as "talent". Filmmaking isn't singing. It's not a natural talent. It's a typically a long chain of talented people, with huge amounts of help, through the lens of a 40-300 million dollar force multiplier.

I agree with a lot of what is being said. It's true; Star Wars is George Lucas plus a couple hundred ultra-talented people. How does any one or 10 people compete with that? They don't.

Yeah, I've let my feelings about A.I. be known, and sometimes in not so subtle ways, but you do have a point; it does help level the playing field for people who don't have an army behind them. You're right, a person's ability to succeed or fail should not be based on that person either having access to top notch equipment and personnel or not. I won't use A.I. to write a book, but human input is always welcome.. You have to remember that I'm old and set in my ways.

I approached a professional editor willing to critique my work so far, and I got hit square in the nose. I know I'm not an experienced writer so I expected to learn that there are things I need to work on. I wasn't ready to hear that I have a systemic problem with my writing. It's one of those things I kind of already knew but could never put my finger on. It was pointed out that I 'tell' what is happening rather than 'show' it happening. It's the difference between saying 'he was afraid' and saying 'frozen in terror, he waited as the impending doom crept nearer'. That single observation will have a great impact on the quality of the book even though it means a complete rewrite. I would pay for information such as that, though the editor I contacted gave it for free. Show the story, don't tell it. Let the reader experience it rather than you, as the author, simply giving them the facts.

 

[Nate North]

I agree with a lot of what is being said. It's true; Star Wars is George Lucas plus a couple hundred ultra-talented people. How does any one or 10 people complete with that? They don't.

Yeah, I've let my feeling about A.I. be known, and sometimes in not so subtle ways, but you do have a point; it does help level the playing field for people who don't have an army behind them. You're right, a person's ability to succeed or fail should not be based on that person either having access to top notch equipment and personnel or not. I won't use A.I. to write a book, but human input is always welcome.. You have to remember that I'm old and set in my ways.

I approached a professional editor willing to critique my work so far, and I got hit square in the nose. I know I'm not an experienced writer so I expected to learn that there are things I need to work on. I wasn't ready to hear that I have a systemic problem with my writing. It's one of those things I kind of already knew but could never put my finger on. It was pointed out that I 'tell' what is happening rather than 'show' it happening. It's the difference between saying 'he was afraid' and saying 'frozen in terror, he waited as the impending doom crept nearer'. That single observation will have a great impact on the quality of the book even though it means a complete rewrite. I would pay for information such as that, though the editor I contacted gave it for free. Show the story, don't tell it. Let the reader experience it rather than you, as the author, simply giving them the facts.

I think that's very good advice. Think of how disappointed you'd be if you bought a jigsaw puzzle, settled in for an afternoon of fun putting it together, opened the box, and found it fully assembled already with all the pieces glued together.

Writing for me feels like a puzzle of sorts. If my goal is to communicate this shocking moment such as "wait a second, the detective investigating the case was the murderer all along", I can't just say that. I have to find a way to make the reader come to that conclusion on their own. I think that's the feeling they want, the feeling that they (the reader) are the one who figured it all out. I liked ACD's work for example, but it's primary weakness, in comparison to say, Agatha Christie, was that in most of his stories, you couldn't really solve the mystery yourself from the information given, you had to wait for Holmes to tell you, and that typically involved deductions based on information you as a reader didn't have. Though it's a kid's series, one that did this well was Encyclopedia Brown, in which every story included enough clues for the reader to solve the mystery themselves.

Think of pool. Every shot must ricochet off of another ball, and you can never just use the cue to hit the ball you want into the pocket you want.