Audio Export question for the experts...

[knightly]

I'm currently working on a project whereby I'm the editor as well as the sound editor…

I'm struggling with order of events vs. the group's needs in terms of non-diegetic sound.

We've a scene where ADR'd voices build in the head of a blossoming detective, the rest of the producers/directors can't visualize (audialize?) the scene with the sound and want the voices roughed in. I don't want to double up my efforts, so I'd been saving that bit for the sound design portion of the sound edit.

I'm in FCP7 and Sound Track Pro with an OMF/XML export in-between. If I rough in the voices in FCP, does it use the crappified audio from Final cut or the original source files when it gets to the audio editing environment?

I'm hung up on a rough cut as I can't get feedback from them on the current edit (don't ask about the editing process, it's a new thing we're trying -- committee critique on every pass, slow)… I need to do what I can to push forward so I don't lose traction, but they can't hear what I hear… and I'm already having to redouble my efforts so much due to this new process test (don't do it, for the record - one editor, one director; in the room at the same time every time or you'll slowly go insane). I'd hate to add another layer of 2 steps back for this bit.

I'm looking for specific technical advice here re: OMF / XML export of a project to a Sound Editing Package (Sound track pro in this case). The methodologies of the critique cycle are set in stone for this project (I won't do one like it again - we should have been done months ago with this portion), so comment as you like on that, but it's the reality of it.

 

[AudioPostExpert]

I'm in FCP7 and Sound Track Pro with an OMF/XML export in-between. If I rough in the voices in FCP, does it use the crappified audio from Final cut or the original source files when it gets to the audio editing environment?

I can't give you specific advice because I've hardly ever used FCP and I've never used Sound Track Pro. Having said this, there is a standard procedure for the scenario you're describing. A standard (embedded) OMF will take all the audio in your FCP timeline (plus user definable handles, by default usually 2 secs) and include it in the OMF file. When you open this OMF file in STP (or some other audio program) you'll get all that audio from your FCP timeline. However, for more discerning projects, the audio post team does not want the sound the picture editor has faffed around with but the original production sound recordings. For this reason another type of OMF exists, the referenced (or linked) OMF. The linked OMF file itself is very small compared to an embedded OMF file because it doesn't actually contain any audio, each of the audio clips and edits in your FCP timeline are created in the linked OMF effectively as just empty regions with metadata references to external audio files. So, along with the Linked OMF file you also have to supply a folder containing the actual audio files (referenced in the OMF). I don't know the process in FCP to create a linked OMF but I presume it's a relatively simple process of pointing the OMF to a different folder of audio files (containing the original production recordings) rather than the folder containing the audio files used in your FCP sequence. Upon opening the linked OMF in your audio program it will ask for the location of the audio files folder (which you've supplied), pull in all the audio for the clips in the timeline and you're good to go with all the picture editor's audio edits but the original production recordings. There are other advantages to linked OMFs as well, which is why I always request a linked OMF in preference to an embedded OMF. However, I obviously don't know how well STP handles linked OMFs (if at all) and you should allow yourself quite a bit of experimentation time for both creating a linked OMF in FCP and opening it successfully in STP. BTW, AAFs are generally more reliable when referencing rather than embedding and that's why I would advise using a linked AAF rather than a linked OMF but again, I'm not sure how well (if at all) STP handles AAFs.

don't ask about the editing process, it's a new thing we're trying -- committee critique on every pass, slow..

I have to say, pretty much every professional project I can remember has had a separate director and producer and so has effectively been done by committee. With experienced professionals it's usually been a reasonably smooth ride but I've had some unpleasant experiences of changing something on the instructions of the Producer and then being slammed for those changes by the Director, going back and forth with the changes, wasting time, and even spending time coming up with compromises which no one (including myself) liked! Even though it adds time and is sometimes a real pain, for me this is just a part of the job, which I accept as a standard working practise, I just have to do my best to please everyone, which is occasionally impossible if the producer and director have opposite views/desires. I should imagine that with a "committee" who are not experienced professionals (experienced at making executive audio post decisions), you might have a bit of a bumpy ride ahead. Good luck!

G

 

[knightly]

Thanks. I'm nearly certain I can used linked OMF - I'll go ahead and give it a go and report back when I'm done. As the files reside on both the picture and sound editor's machine (mine in both cases), this should be a fairly straight forward project then.

The only problem I have is that I'm editing in isolation. We would still be on an assembly edit had I not insisted that I get 8 hours from one of the producers to sit in the room with me and bounce a full pass off of in real time. We got more done in that one session than I'd done in the previous 2 months.

 

[AudioPostExpert]

I'm nearly certain I can used linked OMF... As the files reside on both the picture and sound editor's machine (mine in both cases), this should be a fairly straight forward project then.

You might be lucky but don't count on it! There can be all kinds of issues which cause a glitch with either the creation of a linked (or embedded) OMF/AAF or the loading of it into the audio software: The odd audio file in a different format, bit depth or sample rate (say an MP3 sound FX for example) or how stereo files are formatted, track names (starting with numbers, with unusual characters, or too long) in the NLE can cause problems, as can nested tracks or sequences and some sort of metadata mangling (in the audio files) by the NLE also commonly causes issues (which can be a non-trivial problem to locate and fix), the list goes on (and on) and there maybe issues which STP is sensitive to (or insensitive to) relative to the audio software I accustomed to.

I usually work with picture editors who are used to working with a commercial audio post team and so know all the foibles of creating an AAF for ProTools but when I'm working with a picture editor who is not used to creating AAFs, then almost without exception there's a period of trial and error trying to get an AAF which will load without errors. So my advice would be to assume it's not going to go smoothly and schedule yourself plenty of time.

It might be useful for you to post up here (when you've time) the steps you took to export your OMF/AAF and import it into STP, although I'm not sure how many people actually use STP. At some stage, when neither of us is too busy, it might be worth seeing if I can import your linked OMF/AAF (or a shortened version) into ProTools. That procedure (if it's different) might well be worth having as reference here on IT.

BTW, just for the record, on a commercial feature it is the Assistant Picture Editor who is responsible for packaging/creating the deliverables (OMFs/AAFs, audio files folder, rendered Quicktime, Sound Log and EDL) for the audio post dept. And again just for the record, it would be the Dialogue Editor to whom the Assistant Picture Editor would send the deliverables.

One last thing: Hopefully you are now working with a locked-off edit but when "a committee" is involved, in practise the so called "locked-off edit" more often than not ends up being not quite so locked-off! I'm not sure how STP deals with re-conforming, in all likelihood it can't do automatic re-conforms. Nevertheless, for the short amount of time it takes it would still be worth running off an EDL of the edit you handover to audio post (yourself in this instance!) and storing it somewhere out of the way, just in case!

G

 

[knightly]

By the time I actually do the trip into STP, it'll be locked. I was mostly concerned that any audio work done in FCP would have to be redone once I made the move to STP… doesn't sound like that's the case, so I'm going to rough in the temp ADR sound design bits for the production team… Then after we've got lock, I'll make the move across. I'll be emphatic with them that locked is locked as it has to go to a composer (not me) at that point as well. And a colorist (me).