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Old 11-19-2005, 06:15 PM   #16
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...good for you, Clive. I would hate to see you leave 'the biz'....

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Old 11-19-2005, 06:40 PM   #17
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Sometimes in life things get mundane and the feeling of "Where am I going?" comes up. I guess it's when there is a 5 way fork in the road and it's hard to figure out which way to go. I was there a few years ago and that brought me here, to filmmaking and IndieTalk. I was doing too much and loved what I was doing but it was too much. I decided that I had to focus and get more streamlined. I decided to always move forward. Every step I take moves me forward.
I thought I wanted to be an editor but now, I'm more into VFX and that's where I'm headed now.

So take a road that moves you forward.
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Old 11-20-2005, 12:58 AM   #18
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I'm glad things are beginning to balance out for you Clive, and you're feeling more positive about the future. You never know what your 'goat-herd' job will lead to, or what opportunites might open up for you. Sometimes what seems like a pile of ka-ka to you now, actually turns out to be a blessing in disguise somewhere else down the track. I also believe you already know in your heart of hearts, you will be making more films.

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Old 11-20-2005, 11:10 AM   #19
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i don't know why, but it seems this is the 'season' of filmmakers going insane or depress, I've met a few whom are having the similar concern Clive is going through, including myself... There's day I just don't want to do anything (while piling up some work I have to finish to get paid)... Many times, I just want to quick this all and change a new profession (IT) so I can just regularly get a pay check instead of going out there sell sell sell...

Clive, keep your spirit going I think reading your own stuff at times will help re-inspire you to move on without killing the dream.

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Old 11-20-2005, 12:02 PM   #20
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Clive I gotta say that ten years is really nothing in the film industry. I've been doing this for thirteen years and still haven't gotten my big break. If filmmaking was easy I think everyone would do it. Part of the fun of making it and getting to the point where you can live off your love of film is the ride. Don't look at what you don't have, our society makes us do that already, look at what you have accomplished. Enjoy the the fact that you have put forth an effort to follow your dreams and aspirations. Most people go through life being complacent and never have the luxury of following any dreams. That fact that your able to even say I don't know whether I can go on making films or not is a luxury for you whether you realize it or not. This is a tough industry and it's not going to just happen for you, you have to make it happen. It is a real waste for any artist to say I'm packing it up hitten the high road. I think that you now realize that giving up won't get you there and that you'll be even more depressed at that fact if you did.

For myself I lost a huge national television show contract and was forced to decide how the hell I was going to be able to keep my business going. Bad business on my part but there was nothing I could do. I ended up having to go back to cooking part time(what I was doing throughout film school) and work full time during the day trying to keep my shop open. I thought about giving up...it was the worst feeling I've ever had. I felt like I was killing off a piece of myself. But I didn't and now I have a couple television shows in the works and a feature film for next fall. Things happen for a reason. Don't give up and don't say you can't.

Last edited by liquidrogue; 11-20-2005 at 12:05 PM.
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Old 11-20-2005, 08:36 PM   #21
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Making it in the movie business is tough. It takes three things: talent, patience and luck. The first two make the last one, but there's no timetable on luck. For some it happens in days or months and others it's years or even decades.

I took a break from filmmaking (ok, not a fulltime break, I did shoot one feature during my break) for two years when I took time off, moved back to Ohio for family reasons. I ended up teaching video production and found it very rewarding, but something said come back to filmmaking, so I moved back to LA. I was geared up to make movies, but the big project I came back to shoot was pulled out of my hands (a long story.) I was throw out of wack. The next year was tough. Then at the start of this year I was up for a $800,000 movie. After two months of heavy pre-production, the whole thing went belly up. There was no money. I had $8000 worth of rubber checks written to me. I was ready to pack it in, but got an offer to shoot a micro budget horror feature. Then I ended up shooting 6 features (3 on DV, 1 on Super-16, 1 on HD and the last one on 35mm) in the last 8 months.

So life sounds great, but at the end of all that work, I'm still not where I'd like to be money wise. Everyday I ask myself what the hell am I doing? I love the work, but wonder when I'll be financially sound. I'm nearing 20 years in the biz with over 20 features and numerous other credits. Some days I think I shoot because I don't know how to do anything else, but I know that's not true.

There are lots of options for you and me. If you need a break, I say take it, but don't make it a permenant change yet. Take some time to taste different things. If they please you more than filmmaking, then you may have your answer, but if you're still hungry for filmmaking, then you have to make a tough call or maybe you can find way to still make movies and make a living. Nobody can make that decision for you.

Happy travels on whatever road you choose.

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Old 11-21-2005, 04:23 AM   #22
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You guys are right. This is a tough business and also you never know when things are going to change either for the better or for the worst.

Personally, this year has been tough. With No Place not selling or even picking up a sales agent yet, the investment that I put into that now appears unlikely to bring any return. This is a situation I could have lived more easily if the selling of the film was in my hands and my responsibility, but with the breakup of my business partnership, the film remained in the hands of my ex-business partner. I not only have no control over what happens to my film, I'm also not informed as to the film's progress or what's being done about selling it. This film, if sold, owes me nearly $100,000 in ROI and defered payments.

With my business partnership dissolved this year I've had to start from scratch with all my capital tied up in No Place, $200,000 worth of debt and no income. I've picked up some work this year, but not enough and so last month I effectively had to go bankrupt in order to clear the debts. This involved selling my home and pretty everyhting else I had to get the debtors off my back. Something that has taken all year to achieve.

Don't get me wrong, I've made some bad business decisions and as a result am paying the price. I'm not whinging, I'm just saying that as it stands right now I've got no capital to fund another production, not even a camcorder movie. For the last year I haven't even have the funds to get an NTSC conversion of my digibeta tape so I could send it out as showreel material in the States.

I learned a lot making No Place, but it's been an expensive education. The thing that's annoying me is that even before we made it I knew that from a business point of view it didn't make sense. I knew that a no name, mid budget, art house drama was going to be a nightmare to sell. And yet I still alllowed myself to be talked into it.

I think it's important that people understand that I'm not depressed; not in the least. I'm just taking stock of my business and saying "Hey, this isn't working financially, I need to do something else." Now whatever that somehting else is is either going to be a "working for the man, food on the table job" or maybe a completely new direction. I don't know.

Anyhow, enough. Thanks for all the input.
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Old 11-27-2017, 11:28 AM   #23
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This is a blast from the past, and it brings up a good point; when do you decide enough is enough?

My first though when re-reading this thread was "where are all these people?". Did everyone give up?

This thread is from 2005! 12 years later and I'm still kicking. So are some others that I recognize...

So, what have I done in the past 12 years? Not much. Mostly research and practice. I wrote a few scripts, became a stereoscopic film expert (according to me), finished raising my 2 sons, got divorced and remarried and divorced again. Bought and sold a half dozen cameras, microphones, sound boards, tripods, a steadycam and other equipment.... But in the end, I didn't really produce anything. Just filled my time.. I don't regret one minute of it though. ... There is a character in the book The Alchemist who made plans every single year of his adult life to go on a religious pilgrimage but he never actually went. He had no regret for never actually going though. He said ther is value in the preparation and having something to look forward to each year. I agree with him, however, I really don't want to be 90 years old in my rocking chair remembering all the fun I had planning to make movies and wishing that I actually made one. The guy in the book wasn't what I would call delusional. he just accepted that sometimes life gets in the way of the things we would like to do.,, I don't know.... is that true or is it just an excuse.

2005 was a long time ago. Anyone else want to tell what they've been doing and their thoughts about when enough is enough?

For the record: I did produce 2 short films, created CGI shots for a feature, worked on a major theme ride at Universal and a few others, and did some commissioned make-up fx work,,,, but I did all of that prior to 2005

Last edited by Velusion; 11-27-2017 at 11:46 AM. Reason: added a final thought
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Old 11-29-2017, 04:51 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Velusion View Post
My first though when re-reading this thread was "where are all these people?". Did everyone give up?

This thread is from 2005!
You know, with the email notification that comes from you responding to this thread, it would be cool if anyone from back then would chime in. Several names that I recognize
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Old 11-29-2017, 10:45 AM   #25
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Wow, 2005 is a whole different era: SD, tapes, camcorders, no DSLRs. I was still a student.
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Old 11-29-2017, 12:13 PM   #26
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Back then it seemed like more was going on too. More people making feature films.
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Old 11-29-2017, 12:27 PM   #27
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It was also the pre-Netflix-era, 2005 was the year YouTube was founded.
Production and distribution were both very different.
Are less people making features?
Or are less feature makers on IT?
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Old 11-29-2017, 01:03 PM   #28
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I'd imagine more people are trying to ease into the business via webseries, more diverse options are available for people in areas like youtube content creation, and independent features have become less lucrative
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Old 11-30-2017, 05:48 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by WalterB View Post
Are less people making features?
Feels to me like there are more features being made these days, but there are also more avenues for distribution. It feels easier than ever to get your feature on some sort of streaming service, but harder than ever to get it into a wide theatrical run...
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Old 11-30-2017, 09:43 PM   #30
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...it brings up a good point; when do you decide enough is enough?
I guess if it caused him bankruptcy that's a pretty good time to do it.
I'm curious though, he said he knew it was a bad move to put so much of his money in it, so why did he? Excitement? Faith? It's a tough lesson but sometimes the only way to learn it is to go through the consequences. I know how that goes.
I hope he & his family are in better shape now, whether he's still involved in film or not.
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