Home Your Ad Here

Go Back   IndieTalk - Indie Film Forum > Making The Film > Post Production

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-04-2017, 03:30 AM   #1
LAactionfilmmaker
Basic Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 7
Best way to get good green screen effect?

Other than lighting?

I can get a clean key using After Effects or even Premiere. However, it still looks "cut out" not like it's in the scene. The lighting matches well but I see this clear distinction between my subject and the plate/background

Feels like I have to round the edges but it seems Premiere or after effects doesn't do that too well
LAactionfilmmaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today   #1A
film guy
Basic Member
 
Posts: 17

 
Old 12-04-2017, 03:48 AM   #2
jax_rox
IndieTalk Moderator
 
jax_rox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 2,821
The best thing you can do is shoot your green screen footage to match the lighting of the background plate, ensure correct lighting and exposure of green screen and as much distance as possible (and flagging) between subject and green screen to eliminate spill as much as possible.

Then, you should be able to play around with the Keylight settings to get a pretty good key.

If you've done all that, then colour correcting all the layers will help sell the effect.
jax_rox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2017, 07:06 AM   #3
Velusion
Basic Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Utah
Posts: 102
LAaction,
Which keyer are you using: Ultimatte, Primatte,...?
SD, HD, or 4K resolution?
What kind of compression?

There's more to pulling a good matte from a green screen than lighting. The software companies make it look like all you have to do is press a button for flawless mattes. Most of the time that just isn't true. Another thing to consider is that a green screen composite that looks good for a single image might look bad when you play the entire shot. Always play the entire shot from the timeline to check it.

Give us some specifics and post an image if you can.
Velusion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2017, 07:30 AM   #4
jax_rox
IndieTalk Moderator
 
jax_rox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 2,821
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velusion View Post
There's more to pulling a good matte from a green screen than lighting.
Of course. But getting the lighting and exposure as best you can makes the job significantly quicker and easier.
jax_rox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2017, 07:59 AM   #5
El Director
Basic Member
 
El Director's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Spokane Valley, WA
Posts: 371
Try a very slight lightwrap
El Director is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2017, 08:31 AM   #6
Velusion
Basic Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Utah
Posts: 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by jax_rox View Post
Of course. But getting the lighting and exposure as best you can makes the job significantly quicker and easier.
That is obvious but even with the best lighting (which doesn't always happen), there will be issued to be dealt with. Let LAactionfilmmaker give us some specifics then we can address them properly.

Last edited by Velusion; 12-04-2017 at 09:02 AM. Reason: added text
Velusion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2017, 10:48 AM   #7
LAactionfilmmaker
Basic Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 7
I mentioned in the first post, besides lighting.

Lighting is 70% of it.

But I'm talking, how do you guys in Premiere (harder) or After Effects (easier) composite the subject into the background to make it look professional.

I'm imagining this for fantasy landscapes, bringing a person into a location with vfx, and not the YouTube blog / tutorial / review / interview with someone talking into the camera.

More specifically, it feels like the edges of the subject are too "clean cut." Like theyve been cut out. I tried edge blur in Premiere a few times, but it doesn't seem to produce the result I want. It only blurs the edges slightly.
LAactionfilmmaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2017, 11:44 AM   #8
Velusion
Basic Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Utah
Posts: 102
Sorry LAaction. Without specific information (see above) the best anyone can do is give you general information.

If edges appear too clean cut then soften them up. There is a slider for that. If you look, you'll find it.

but like jax said, you also have to color correct.... You have to adjust the foreground so that its overall values match the background plate.
Velusion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2017, 12:35 PM   #9
indietalk
IndieTalk Founder
 
indietalk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 10,055
LA, can you post an example of what you are experiencing? Thanks!
indietalk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2017, 04:24 PM   #10
pictureplanet
Basic Member
 
pictureplanet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 162
I don't agree that lighting is 70% of it. Yes, you want to match your green screen elements to your plate elements, but green screen separation is in my opinion just as important. If you have everything spilling everywhere you might as well not set up a green screen in the first place and just roto it.

Color correction is extremely important. Where you apply lightwrap (And where you don't) will really sell the composite.

Matching the grain (or noise) will help.

Environmental elements- dust, light leaks, chromatic aberration will also help.

Edge blur and pixel spreading helps.

Truthfully if you are doing this in premiere and are expecting a decent result you should probably just find a compositor now. Nuke or Flame will do a much better job than AE ever will.
pictureplanet is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2017, 06:17 PM   #11
jax_rox
IndieTalk Moderator
 
jax_rox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 2,821
Quote:
Originally Posted by pictureplanet View Post
green screen separation is in my opinion just as important.
... which is mostly helped by lighting and lighting modifiers (as well as distance, but there are few studios where you’d be able to get far enough away from the green screen to be able to shoot full coverage and have no spill).

Quote:
Originally Posted by pictureplanet View Post
Nuke or Flame will do a much better job than AE ever will
Nuke and Flame are both great pieces of software and some may find them easier to pull a key in, but AE is perfectly serviceable - you can get a great key, and indeed many Hollywood Films and TV series use AE in their workflows for compositing, including pulling keys.
jax_rox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2017, 06:21 PM   #12
indietalk
IndieTalk Founder
 
indietalk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 10,055
It would really help to see the footage.
indietalk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2017, 09:13 PM   #13
pictureplanet
Basic Member
 
pictureplanet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 162
If you have your green screen right up on talent, it will not ever look right no matter how you light it. The green screen distance from subject is a very valuable part of any composite, as is compositing. You said lighting is 70% of it and that is incorrect.

At the end of the day can you do a final composite in after effects? Yes. You can, but not without plenty of third party support. You want insight into how to do it best? Or do you want me to say "sure you know everything"?

A good matte does not equal a good composite.
pictureplanet is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2017, 09:28 PM   #14
jax_rox
IndieTalk Moderator
 
jax_rox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 2,821
Of course. I'm not suggesting having little distance between your green screen and subject.

Lighting to match your background plate is extremely important to getting your key to sell. Lighting your screen is extremely important to getting a good key. Creating distance and using light modifiers and grip equipment to eliminate green spill as much as possible, as well as creating some separation through lighting is also extremely important. Of course, this is of little use once you've already shot (and cannot re-shoot if there are problems), but all important to keep in mind for when you're approaching shooting and comping green screen. I never gave a specific number as to how important lighting is for green screen work, but it is extremely important. The worse your capture, the harder your compositor has to work, the better their skills need to be, and the more likely the output is to be sub-par.

Lighting to match, exposing the screen correctly, and eliminating spill are pretty much the three most important things you need to concern yourself with when shooting green screen.

Personally, I would have thought that suggesting you're unlikely to ever get a key to work in Premiere or AE (despite much evidence to the contrary) is not particularly helpful or insightful in a thread specifically asking for tips on Premiere and AE, though you're right - both Fusion and Nuke are perhaps better suited to, and more widely used on professional compositing work.

As for advice for the OP, this is good general advice:

Quote:
Originally Posted by pictureplanet View Post
Color correction is extremely important. Where you apply lightwrap (And where you don't) will really sell the composite.

Matching the grain (or noise) will help.

Environmental elements- dust, light leaks, chromatic aberration will also help.

Edge blur and pixel spreading helps.

If we can get a screen grab, we will be much better placed to provide specific advice.

Last edited by jax_rox; 12-10-2017 at 06:07 PM.
jax_rox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2017, 10:59 PM   #15
Scoopicman
Premiere Member
 
Scoopicman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 1,765
I shot a scene, where everyone was in the street, that had miniature cars that had to be blown up to lifescale. To control the situation better, I put everyone in front of my garage. The greenscreen was being blown and was wrinkled, but no one who watched the movie would ever guess it was green screen.

I used Ultrakey, within Premiere. Under SETTING, I selected AGGRESSIVE, which usually works best for me.









Here are links to bigger pics, if you're looking for more detail:

http://www.midnightsunent.com/ROADgreen.jpg

http://www.midnightsunent.com/ROADcomp.jpg

http://www.midnightsunent.com/ROADgarage.jpg
__________________
midnightsunent
Scoopicman is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:52 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.


©IndieTalk