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Old 01-13-2017, 07:50 PM   #16
Sweetie
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do most scenes even need a WS
As always with everything filming, it depends. Usually yes. The WS, or EWS, are often used to establish geography, hence establishing or master shot. Depending on style the opening shot may be different, to establish pacing, limit the audiences information or to introduce information that is not known to characters within the scene to develop tension or simply to fix what was a boring or less dynamic scene if it was let to progress traditionally.

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So the shot of the award, was an ES but not a WS, so I thought that ESs were usually different because of that.
I guess that teaches me for thinking you're starting to learn. This is another example of you saying less contrast when you mean more contrast. If you want any chance to be a director, you need to learn the basics of the language of film. It's the dumb mistakes like this that puts you further away from being a director and closer to being the village idiot.
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Old 01-13-2017, 08:05 PM   #17
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No need to be insulting.
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Old 01-15-2017, 04:28 AM   #18
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First of all, let's dispense with mundane talk of specific shots that one may or may not need. Every production is different and they all have different needs.

What we really need to talk about here is coverage.

I am a fan of maximum coverage. And that would of course mean that you get a master. Exactly when do you get said master? Logistics determines the order of the shots.

The tricky thing about maximum coverage, at least when you're working on a tiny budget, is that one usually doesn't have time to get all of the shots that they want. In this respect, "maximum" just becomes as much as you can get, and it is your job to prioritize which shots are more important than others.

There is no one-size-fits-all solution to your query. YOU have to make that deciision, dependent upon the particulars of your story and the logistics of your production.

I don't want to hear from anyone else in this thread who isn't experienced in making these things happen on a tiny budget. I know you mean well, but you're leading H44 and others in similar situations, astray. H44 is not approaching this from the perspective of having any kind of budget, so please stop telling him to talk to his DP or whatever, because that is not the reality that people like he and I face.

To give a more straight-forward answer to the question, I prefer to get the master first, but I don't always choose to get a master. Depends on the scene.
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Old 01-15-2017, 06:49 AM   #19
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Without budget you still have time to plan and make a simple storyboard to plan what you need as minimum coverage.
I usually start with widest shots and 'close in' from that angle and then change angle and close in from there. If you would start close and 'move out' you might have to move lights again when you find out they end up in frame. (The oher way around doesn't happen when only lens changes or distance is decreased while angle stays more or less the same. So that is your first win in time.)

However, sometimes you have to make exceptions for whatever logistic reason.
My schedule is based on:
- when everyone is available
- what the most efficient order of shooting is (least amount of moving gear)
- natural light (if that plays any role) and the weather (if that plays a role)
- activities that can interfere with the set
- the shots I really need

I never count takes to determine what take some is at his/her peak. It is my task to get what I need. One thing in that task is trying to find actors that can deliver more than 1 good take
As stated before: it is not common that the whole take is perfect. This is where editing makes the difference. But that is only possible if you have different shots to cut to and from.
Usually my minimum coverage is:
- establishing shot
- wide shot of the whole scene (where wide can be very wide or more like a medium shot: as long as you have the 'whole' scene.
- close ups of talking doing
- close ups of listening/reacting
- close ups or even macros of things people look or point at or touch/hold/grab/move

The order depends on the other list.

Last edited by WalterB; 01-15-2017 at 06:54 AM.
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Old 01-21-2017, 07:30 PM   #20
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Okay thanks. Since I am working on very low budgets though, I don't know if I have time for maximum coverage... I worked under a director who shot a scene in 4 hours once, cause he was on a tight schedule, and that included all the setup and cleaning up the location after.

He only got I think 3 shots out of it. A master and a couple of close ups, but wonder if that is enough, or if that is reasonable amount of time, when it comes to low budget shooting when actors are working for very low pay, or for free even.

Last edited by harmonica44; 01-21-2017 at 07:33 PM.
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Old 01-21-2017, 09:06 PM   #21
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You don't know, because you lack experience.
Lack of experience makes it hard for you to calculate the time you need.
Another reason to make a really short film of a few minutes max.
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Old 01-21-2017, 09:06 PM   #22
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G-59

BINGO!
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Old 01-21-2017, 09:15 PM   #23
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I want to make a short film that is just a few minutes, I find it difficult coming up with a story that can have a beginning, a middle and an end, in such a short amount of time. I think I might go with the 14 page long script I have therefore. It's the shortest one I got right now.

So when it comes to doing mastershots for coverage and safety, do you think it's a good idea to have it be a static shot for safety, or should I move the camera, if the scene calls for certain camera movements?
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Old 01-21-2017, 09:27 PM   #24
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Shoot what you think you need. Go through the process. Learn from the mistakes. Let your experience guide you in the future.

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do you think it's a good idea to have it be a static shot for safety
Yes and no.

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I want to make a short film that is just a few minutes
We're shooting a one page script (we came across an easy to shoot joke) early this week so my new guys can see the whole process before we buckle down and produce a longer documentary. Budget: $0.

It's really not that hard unless you overthink it.
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Old 01-21-2017, 09:46 PM   #25
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Okay thanks. I was wondering how to do in a zero dollar budget... The short I posted before, cost a few 1000, most of it going to the post production pros, hired to work on it, since I don't know much about audio engineering and sound mixing. So I would still have to pay for that most likely.
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Old 01-21-2017, 11:24 PM   #26
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I was wondering how to do in a zero dollar budget...
It's really simple. If you cannot get it for free, you work out how to do it without. It's not that complicated.

Most of the time, you are your own worst enemy.

If you cannot figure out the simple stuff, how screwed are you going to be when you're tackling the slightly difficult stuff. It's too bad for you... film making is about creating the impossible. If you keep making excuses, you'll still be trying to crawl when you retire. What a wasted life for a film maker. Will you ever take the steps to gain the experience you need?
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Old 01-21-2017, 11:31 PM   #27
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I can attempt to learn the audio engineering program again. One of the mistakes I learned from when it came to making my first short was to hire professionals next time. But if I am being told I should make the movie without them, I feel I would be making the same mistake twice, and not learning from it. That is why I have been hesitant on going forth on other projects, cause no DP, PSMs, or post production people, responded to my adds. Well not enough actors either, but those crew members are important though.

Last edited by harmonica44; 01-21-2017 at 11:40 PM.
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Old 01-22-2017, 02:42 AM   #28
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I can attempt to learn
You don't know what you don't know.

You're continually trying to learn without context or perspective and it's the main reason you're failing on the film making front. You need to gain experience before you can learn to improve. Without gaining experience, you're fooling yourself. It's like sex. There's only so much you can learn before the lack of experience turns you into a virgin for life.

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That is why I have been hesitant
BULLSHIT. The truth is you're too busy making excuses to be making films. Do you want to make films or excuses? I know bigger fucks ups than you make films, and those losers won awards too. You need to decide. When you retire, do you want to look back at the films you've made or do you forever want to be making excuses?
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Old 01-22-2017, 03:01 AM   #29
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Okay thanks. You're right I need to just do it, whatever it takes. Just like I did with my first my first short film. I totally let the ends justify the means, even to the point where I had a 16 hour shoot day, which the cast and crew hated, that was my downfall..

But I did it... So I need to get back into that mentally and do whatever it takes to get a movie made, no excuses. I will do that.
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Old 01-22-2017, 03:19 AM   #30
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I will do that.
That's great. Good to hear.

It's the same as sex. You're not going to become better without doing it... and often.
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