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Old 04-15-2016, 01:27 PM   #1
WCAN
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Question MONEYTALK: People want our videos for commercial use - NOW WHAT!?

Hi there,


as said in our introduction, we make car videos.
It's a pretty unique project in our region and the word spreads fast.
We're very convinced of the capabilities of our project, and we want to promote our work in a manner that really blows people off their chairs.

Lately we've been contacted by a dealer nearby, to promote their carstock.
Going from Tesla to Porsche, Lamborghini and more.

After long discussions, it seems that they see the videos completely different as we do.
I won't go into detail too much, but it looks like they are seeing things very different than we do.
I'll sum it up for you guys, and let you form your oppinion.

-They want (almost) every car filmed in their showroom, up to 10 videos per month.
-As long as we haven't started a real video-production company, they will pay no more than 250 per video, and they suggested to pay us when the cars get sold.
-They're promising that they will help us get more work than we'll ever be able to do.
-They want exclusive cooperation with us, so we can't do videos for other companies.
-They want a type of video that is very different than the things we have in mind. Their target audience is also the opposite as ours.
-We won't always be able to use the footage to put on our Youtube channel

To make a 2 minute video, we are both filming about 2h.
To edit everything onto the music, correct the colors, add effects, texts, logo's,... we're almost editing for about 10h. (With trial & error).
This all adds up to around 10-14h of actual work per video.


It looks like we don't have much room for investing into gear this way. We're also not very convinced by the conditions.
My partner is getting blinded by the hundreds of thousands euros worth of cars that we're getting involved with.
We're getting very limited in our creativity, and we're doing work that doesn't represent our WCAN-vision.
We're very unsure of what to do with this one, we want to hear your oppinion.


The question is: what do you guys think about this?
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Old 04-15-2016, 02:03 PM   #2
WalterB
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From a business point of view I look at it this way:
if the project is not exciting: does it pay enough?
You need to calculate the cost of doing business.
10 videos per month is 100-140 hours of work: that is roughly 3 to 4 days per week.
(If it is indeed true that they want 10 videos per month; sometimes people promise large quantities to negotiate a low price.)

I wouldn't do it:
it looks like it will only be frustrating for you.
The condition that they will pay only when a car is sold, puts all investment and thus all risk on your shoulders. I wouldn't accept that. 100% risk and low rewards is pretty unfair. Sounds like they try to 'outsmart' you by blinding you with cool cars and 'an opportunity'.

However, you can take a change and make 2 or 3 videos if you want; see how it works out.

And ask them why they would pay more when you have an official registered business?
Also ask how much you registration with the chamber of commerce is worth to them.
I think they just want cheap videos.
(Or maybe my judgement is clouded by greedy car dealers...)

To me it sounds like a bad deal.
Don't forget you also have to pay for the use of music. (And searching for music can also take time.)
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Old 04-15-2016, 04:01 PM   #3
WCAN
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Thanks for the reply!




Quote:
Originally Posted by WalterB View Post
Don't forget you also have to pay for the use of music. (And searching for music can also take time.)
Music is something they would arrange via an artist they know.
The reason why they would pay more when we start a company is because it's easier for them to put the cost into their taxes.
It's pretty impossible for us to already start a company and turn our hobby into our job at this point.


And indeed, it doesn't sound really exciting to us... We would only do it for the money and only very occasionally shoot a video that really represents our vision of the project...
I guess we either will have to rework our deal with them, or let it just go by.

Thanks again for your point of view
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Old 04-15-2016, 04:47 PM   #4
mlesemann
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I'll pretty much echo what WalterB said - if it doesn't really excite you, then you certainly need to be paid for it. And not just if they sell the cars.
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Old 04-15-2016, 05:38 PM   #5
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I agree with the others, but also don't like the "want exclusive cooperation with us, so we can't do videos for other companies."
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Old 04-15-2016, 06:03 PM   #6
WCAN
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And what do you guys think of the amount paid?
Maybe we can arrange getting paid as soon as we deliver the video, but then again I'm not sure about the 250€, is that enough?

EDIT: we're working together, so that's 125€ each. (The hours of work are also divided by 2)

Last edited by WCAN; 04-15-2016 at 06:06 PM.
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Old 04-15-2016, 09:38 PM   #7
Sweetie
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Quote:
-They want (almost) every car filmed in their showroom, up to 10 videos per month.
-As long as we haven't started a real video-production company, they will pay no more than €250 per video, and they suggested to pay us when the cars get sold.
$2.5k a month isn't a small amount of $$ to sneeze at for two people starting out. It isn't a lot either. It might be worth asking for $2500 a month for up to 10 cars done with additional cars costing $250 each, thus locking in some income, regardless if they scale down.

What would concern me would be the payment after the car is sold. What if it isn't sold? What do you live on if the car doesn't sell for 6 months? What happens if they trade the car with another dealership? Do you still get paid?

Quote:
-They're promising that they will help us get more work than we'll ever be able to do.
I actually love those terms. Put it down on paper. Define what "more work than we'll ever be able to do" and put in penalty clauses if promises aren't achieved. Also quantify the type of work they'll be referring. There's no point in getting work that doesn't pay but keeps you ties you up forever.

Quote:
-They want exclusive cooperation with us, so we can't do videos for other companies.
Clarify with them if this is for direct competition only. If so, you need to decide if the 250 is enough to have that restriction.

Quote:
-They want a type of video that is very different than the things we have in mind. Their target audience is also the opposite as ours.
-We won't always be able to use the footage to put on our Youtube channel
So it's a job.

Quote:
To make a 2 minute video, we are both filming about 2h.
To edit everything onto the music, correct the colors, add effects, texts, logo's,... we're almost editing for about 10h. (With trial & error).
This all adds up to around 10-14h of actual work per video.
You'll get better as time goes on. You'll learn how to increase that production value for the same time or decrease the time it takes to make each video as your experience and systems improve. In the end, I'd guess you'll get down to that 10 to 14 hours for a few videos.

It could be a very serious stepping stone for you. It could also be a waste of time. Work out what's in your own best interests. You'll have to gauge your potential client, dig down deep and come to your own conclusion.

Write in an exit clause for both parties. You'll get sick of the arrangement if business grows.
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Old 04-16-2016, 06:55 AM   #8
WalterB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WCAN View Post
Thanks for the reply!

Music is something they would arrange via an artist they know.
The reason why they would pay more when we start a company is because it's easier for them to put the cost into their taxes.
It's pretty impossible for us to already start a company and turn our hobby into our job at this point.
So they have an artist producing 10 tracks each month?
Or do they think that 1 track is enough for all the videos?
(After 9 years I'm a bit sceptical about clients saying they know someone who can do something. You need to ask to he point questions to find out how they see it and how they will arrange it and when. Otherwise it could just keep hanging in the air while you are waiting for music. Ask to hear the music.)
If it is impossible to turn it into a job, how will you produce 10 videos a month?
How much time can you spend on it every week as a hobby?
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Old 04-16-2016, 07:37 AM   #9
WCAN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WalterB View Post
So they have an artist producing 10 tracks each month?
Or do they think that 1 track is enough for all the videos?
(After 9 years I'm a bit sceptical about clients saying they know someone who can do something. You need to ask to he point questions to find out how they see it and how they will arrange it and when. Otherwise it could just keep hanging in the air while you are waiting for music. Ask to hear the music.)
If it is impossible to turn it into a job, how will you produce 10 videos a month?
How much time can you spend on it every week as a hobby?


They know an artist who would produce 1-2minutes worth of calm instrumental music.
Indeed he would have to make 10 pieces per month.

And at this point we still have school / work, our project is not even a month old, I guess it would be a possibility to start a company around this. We can each spend about 30h of free time every week, but this doesn't look like a hobby to us. It'll almost be a part-time job, this is a very difficult one...

EDIT: starting a company here in Belgium comes with great cost, responsability and a lot of paperwork...

Last edited by WCAN; 04-16-2016 at 07:45 AM.
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