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Old 05-11-2015, 08:23 PM   #1
samwagner1000
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magic lantern thread

i'm a huge magic lantern proponent (as you may have noticed) and use for everything i can, but i'm not nearly a know all expert, so i was wondering if anyone else has used it? for what? how did you find it? do you have test videos, comparisons, or sample footage? magic lantern has a good forum, but i'd be interested in hearing if any ITers have input, too

here's an old test video:


and i'm editing one comparing lighting and movement within the frame for HDR video, RAW video and the standard h.264 compression at 24fps 1920x1080. i shoot on a t3i, so my camera is a little slower and has difficulty running all of these processes at once, so those of you lucky enough to have a 5dii or iii don't have these issues, but for anyone running magic lantern on a lesser canon dslr, these are important comparisons to know in order to get the best footage in different situations. i'll post that soon

looking forward to hearing others thoughts and experiences
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Old 05-11-2015, 08:31 PM   #2
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I've been shooting with Magic Lantern ever since it first became available in alpha stage for the 550D. It sure has come a long way since then. The features I use most are the expanded ISO range, custom white balance, 2.40 crops, and REC picture style. I found that the last feature in particular has really helped the quality of my video come a long way. I light and expose using CineLook from VisionColor, then when I hit record it switches to VisionTech, giving me a nice flat image to work with later.

Personal Note to anyone reading this: DONT USE CINESTYLE from Technicolor. All it does is ruin your skintones. I've been using the VisionColor stuff for two years now and haven't looked back. they're cheap, and worth every penny.
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Old 05-12-2015, 01:21 AM   #3
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This could be a useful thread.

I have looked into Magic Lantern at least two dozen times and then run away after researching if there's been any developments or breakthroughs in workflow. Even the most recent tutorials and dissertations on the latest and greatest "simplified" ML RAW workflows would cripple me. Some of the processes require you to pick your white balance and exposure one time before baking it in, etc... I couldn't imagine. Alas I keep thinking "someday I can go from camera to adobe premiere and drag and drop a single track", but until then in my world just grabbing one of these black magic cameras would give me the same thing with zero headache and pay for itself in seconds when compared to the current ML RAW workflow... and I'm a 5D MKIII fanboy.

I guess the lucky part for me is I chose a very specific retro look to go after - so I haven't had a whole lot of issue with pushing the 8bit h264 where I want it to go or with it falling apart when projected. .. and obviously working with it is a dream. Also worth noting that Cinestyle was wonderful, for me, when partnered with the dual LUT sets from LookLabs that are based on the technicolor color space. Again maybe a boon of the 5D mkIII, but full disclosure I only used outdoor shots in full daylight with blazing reflectors.

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Originally Posted by El Director View Post
I light and expose using CineLook from VisionColor, then when I hit record it switches to VisionTech, giving me a nice flat image to work with later.
It's interesting that the products you mentioned are still tied to the 8bit h264 codec according to their website. Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of using them on 14bit RAW?

Anyway, I think when its time for my next project I will have to start peeping some of the other companies that have hit the scene in recent years, offering better codecs (if not lossless) and dynamic ranges on the cheap. Unless the ML workflow somehow changes dramatically of course.

Last edited by Guanto; 05-12-2015 at 01:25 AM.
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Old 05-12-2015, 08:09 AM   #4
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I've never tried it, but I'm not sure why! I've seen fantastic results. Might have to stick it on my 5D one weekend and have a play.
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Old 05-12-2015, 09:31 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guanto View Post
It's interesting that the products you mentioned are still tied to the 8bit h264 codec according to their website. Wouldn't that defeat the purpose of using them on 14bit RAW?

It would, but I can't shoot RAW on the 550D, at least not in HD. So if you have to stay with h.264, the styles I mentioned I found are the best bet, when used with Magic Lantern
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Old 05-12-2015, 12:04 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Director View Post
It would, but I can't shoot RAW on the 550D, at least not in HD. So if you have to stay with h.264, the styles I mentioned I found are the best bet, when used with Magic Lantern
Thanks for the clarification. I can't help myself but to assume that someone who is using ML is shooting RAW.
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Old 05-12-2015, 02:54 PM   #7
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@guanto to shoot RAW is not the only reason to have ML, you'll have all sorts of other great functions such as Focus Peaking, FPS Override, added ISO stops, and a built in Intervalometer, to name a few things that I often use that are not RAW

@ElDirector you CAN shoot RAW if you are shooting at ~18 or fewer FPS, I often shoot timelapse at full HD RAW with the FPS override function in video mode rather than using the Intervalometer in photo mode
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Old 05-12-2015, 03:45 PM   #8
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also @guanto, the post production is a little strange for working with RAW files, the current build has it so that when i copy the .mlv (magic lantern video, proprietary video file) to my computer, i have to run it through this MLRawViewer program, but that does allow me to export the video as a ProRes4444 or as a DNG series. i do like the DNG series because then i can batch develop and export these files in Lightroom, so i do all my coloring, noise reduction, sharpening, etc in Lightroom rather than Premiere which i think is a good thing because the develop tools in Lightroom are better than any 3-way Color Corrector in Premiere.

so, YES, it's slower, but not by as much as you think, and, especially if i'm shooting timelapse (because with the 600d i have to lower my FPS to shoot full HD RAW video), i much prefer the look i get from this method.

but if you're shooting short films with up to hundreds of hours of footage...yeah, still not ideal by any means
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Old 05-13-2015, 02:18 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samwagner1000 View Post
but if you're shooting short films with up to hundreds of hours of footage...yeah, still not ideal by any means
Yeah when I do bite the bullet and move to a higher brow codec and color space there is just no way this will be my workflow. I'd claw my face off. But I am the first to admit knowing the camera has this secret super power of RAW is like an itch that can't be scratched.

Most of the other features of ML you mentioned seem to be covered by the little field monitor I use... but I can totally appreciate the added value.
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Old 05-16-2015, 03:35 AM   #10
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Ugh

See stuff like this kills me... why does Adobe post stuff like this that clearly leads one to believe you can take "Canon Raw" right from your camera to the Adobe Premiere CC 2014 timeline?

"Enhanced format support
The 2014 release of Premiere Pro CC enables you to work with the vast majority of formats natively — including 4K, 5K and 6K RED media, XAVC, ProRes, and DNxHD — without transcoding or file rewrapping. Premiere Pro recently added support for Sony SStP and Canon RAW, and significantly expanded support for CinemaDNG formats."

What gives?
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Old 05-16-2015, 06:08 PM   #11
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Canon RAW is also a videocodec produced by their C500 cameras. Probably using RAW stills in a container. So yes, it is true :p
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Old 05-17-2015, 03:22 AM   #12
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The results are so nice.

But is it still the case that you can't shoot full HD with the whole sensor on the 5DII?

And there's the, "But remember: it may destroy your camera..."

Ug. Otherwise, I might try to play around with it. Not arguing against its use, of course. Just wish it wasn't...yeah. I'm sure I'm not man enough to handle the workflow, anyway. Probably my hardware isn't either.

=)
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Old 05-18-2015, 02:12 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WalterB View Post
Canon RAW is also a videocodec produced by their C500 cameras. Probably using RAW stills in a container. So yes, it is true :p
Is Canon RAW the file produced by ML off of say a 5D? Is this the same as a CR2 file? If so there is not support in my cc 2014 version of any sort. Unrecognized file. I am a version back though (v 8.0) due to other issues, so maybe the latest and greatest can in fact handle this? I doubt it as this would be rather game-changing news.
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Old 05-18-2015, 02:29 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guanto View Post
Is Canon RAW the file produced by ML off of say a 5D? Is this the same as a CR2 file? If so there is not support in my cc 2014 version of any sort. Unrecognized file. I am a version back though (v 8.0) due to other issues, so maybe the latest and greatest can in fact handle this? I doubt it as this would be rather game-changing news.
I'm talking about Canon RAW video as shot by a C500. The C500 is the most expensive cinema camera from Canon. It doesn't need a ML hack to shoot raw.

I never used ML to shoot RAW video.
I think you should google it to see how that workflow works.
My guess is that it is saved in a different container.
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Old 05-21-2015, 05:02 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WalterB View Post
I'm talking about Canon RAW video as shot by a C500.
Ah OK, pardon my confusion. You yourself said "Canon RAW is also a videocodec produced by their C500 cameras"... This implies you knew it is also the codec produced by Magic Lantern RAW.

I am familiar with the ridiculously overpriced ergo-nightmare camera that cannot record RAW internally and even then only produces a 10-bit file - but we should probably stick to Magic Lantern given the thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WalterB View Post
I think you should google it to see how that workflow works.
What workflow? The Magic Lantern RAW workflow? That's what the entire thread is about here, people who have googled it and are sharing their experiences and opinions about it.

You do bring up a good point though - Adobe's marketing that I quoted may indeed be talking about the C500's output.
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