Shot List???

I think your shotlist is detailed enough, but I'm not sure it's actual shots. Some of them multiple lines apart seem to be the same "shot", but with other shots intercut between them. This is almost more like an editing list than a shotlist?

Also, I think your numbering is a bit confusing, have X.Y as a scene number. I tend to stick with a number for the scene (no periods) and then a letter(s) for the shot; A-Z, skipping I and O, then AA-AZ, BA-BZ, etc.

When I'm shotlisting a conversation, for example, I'll have something like:
A - 2S of Michael and Julia
B - OTS of Michael from Julia
C - OTS of Julia from Michael
D - CU Julia
E - CA Julia's phone showing no service

I always include the CAs, as the shotlist is meant to detail every shot you need, and it's so easy to forget that one 2 second shot you needed, especially when there's no dialogue during it. Now, when it's edited, I might use A then B then C then back to A then E then C then D then back to A, but I only list each one as separate shot once.

I also put the dialogue line numbers in the shot list, but that's less important if I have a shooting script. For me, a shooting script is locked down with line numbers on each line of dialogue, with the CONTINUED etc included. Then I'll "line" the script, essentially taking each shot and putting a line down the page for the duration of that one shot. I start with a small horizontal line above which the shot # goes, then draw the line straight down the page. If it continues to the next page, I end the line with an arrow pointing down, and start on the next page with an arrow pointing up. When the shot finishes, I cap the line with another small horizontal line and put the shot # below that.

The shooting script is mainly for the script supervisor, to be able to quickly follow each shot from a script perspective during each take. The shotlist is critical for the producer/PM and AD to determine time requirements and best shooting order, and then (after it's been restructured in shooting order) for the AD and DP to be able to setup on the day of, as well as for everyone being able to ensure each and every shot was acquired.

This is what I do at least, something I've organized from researching the various ways different people do things. It's worked pretty well, when I'm running things and we have these all laid out, we haven't missed anything and caught a number of little issues that we could address on location. Every time I've been involved in one that didn't, something always seems to have been missed. It's a lot of work, but I think it's worth it when it comes to the organized chaos that is shooting.

CraigL

It also looks (and I could be mis-interpreting) like your shot list is in the order that scenes appear in the script; they should be in the order that you're going to shoot them.

CraigL – Thanks for the detailed response! I’m thinking now I should create a “shooting script” as well, I think it would definitely help. In your example you have a single OTS of Michael from Julia, followed by an OTS of Julia from Michael, then that’s it. Is that more representative of a camera set-up, from which then you would then perhaps select a number of shots? Or are you assuming here you only require one OTS of Michael, then one of Julia (then should we return to the same shot after the CU, it would be listed again, so F might be OTS of Julia from Michael)?

mlesemann – You are correct, this is in script order. What I am calling my “shooting schedule” (which is actually quite similar to my shotlist) is the only place the script is broken down into a non-sequential order. I felt this was the only place necessary to do it. I guess this could be broken down further, into the shooting order, once I get the final schedule set in stone (and that’s a little while off yet).

Thanks all, so far!

Mad_hatter,

You are on the right track:

1) Call out each setup only once in the shot list (i.e. OTS of Julia).
* See if you can combine any setups so you can run the entire scene and get several items in your desired shot list in one take; i.e. Block the scene so an actor walks from a medium shot into their CU.

2) List each shot in shooting order.
* When determining your shooting order, a major consideration is avoiding re-lights. Once you're dressed and lit for one direction, shoot everything you can before you turn around.

Just before crew call, I reviewed and modified my shot list with my DP & AD just make sure we were all on the same page.

Thomas

mad_hatter said:

CraigL – Thanks for the detailed response! I’m thinking now I should create a “shooting script” as well, I think it would definitely help. In your example you have a single OTS of Michael from Julia, followed by an OTS of Julia from Michael, then that’s it. Is that more representative of a camera set-up, from which then you would then perhaps select a number of shots? Or are you assuming here you only require one OTS of Michael, then one of Julia (then should we return to the same shot after the CU, it would be listed again, so F might be OTS of Julia from Michael)?

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Right. If the conversation goes from lines 1 - 10, and the CU of Julia was for a reaction at line 7, I'd shoot A, B and C for all lines 1-10, then the D (the CU) of Julia for lines 6-8. They might be intercut into 8 or 10 pieces when editing, but they'd all come from the takes of those 4 shots. It's critical to consolidate everything as much as you can, the setups are by far the most expensive (time-wise) component on set. Set up the shot, shoot all you need from that angle, then move on to the next setup for the next shot.

It's important to always get a bit of lead in and out for each shot, you never know when you'll need it during editing. That might be a line before and after, or blocking, whatever.

mad_hatter said:

mlesemann – You are correct, this is in script order. What I am calling my “shooting schedule” (which is actually quite similar to my shotlist) is the only place the script is broken down into a non-sequential order. I felt this was the only place necessary to do it. I guess this could be broken down further, into the shooting order, once I get the final schedule set in stone (and that’s a little while off yet).

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And this will need to change, as I indicated. You might have a scene in the car, then 10 scenes later, be back in the car. While you've got the talent and the car, you should (normally) shoot everything around the car, then move on. Or, scenes at the same location even if they're the beginning and end, as again, the "Company Move" and the setup at the new location are the most expensive. Obviously, sometimes there are reasons not to, but generally it's a good place to start.

CraigL

Oh, absolutely. I'm not, for one second, suggesting that I'd set up multiple times, to film the same thing, or that I intend to shoot the film in chronological order... I get that. What I'm calling my "shooting schedule" has the shots and scenes broken down into shooting order, based on characters and locations. Some of the night exterior scenes are actually be shot day-for-night, so I've had to take that into account, to shoot as dusk.

What I really wanted to clarify was the typical way in which a shotlist deals with situations like conversations, and how much detail to go into. And that's definitly been cleared up for me. I'd hate to miss something, when just taking a little extra time to get this sort of stuff in order would have solved any issues.

Anyway, thanks for all the help. Next step is to combine my "schedule" and "shotlist" into one. Then perhaps write a shooting script. Then, fingers crossed, I should be all set.

Cheers guys!

mlesemann said:

It also looks (and I could be mis-interpreting) like your shot list is in the order that scenes appear in the script; they should be in the order that you're going to shoot them.

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You're confusing shotlisting with scheduling.

A shooting script is a locked down script that you're going to shoot that includes scene numbers etc.

A shot list is a list of shots in script order. mad_hatter, you're on the right track. However:
-shot lists should list only shots. It seems you have written a 'cut list' of what you'll be cutting between. If you have a CU of Michael, then that's one shot no matter how many times you'll cut back to it in the edit.
-shot lists should list special equipment you'll need (I.e. Jib, Dolly, Steadicam etc.)
-scene breakdowns are different to shot lists and that is where your AD or Producer will list out characters, props, costumes, FX etc. for each scene. Your AD will use a combination of their scene breakdowns and your shotlist when scheduling.

In terms of combining scene days - that's not up to the shotlist. You just need to shotlist what shots you need for each scene in script order, and if there are similar scenes, or multiple scenes in the one location that's up to whoever is scheduling the show to put them together.

In terms of numbering, it comes down to what makes the most sense to you. Here, it's more common to see shots listed as numbers (I.e. 2.5) whereas it's more common in the US to use letters (I.e 10N, 15AB).

Your script scenes (every time you write a scene heading, generally starting with INT or EXT) should be numbered sequentially counting up from 1 (I.e. 1, 2, 3; NOT 1.1, 1.2, 2.1 etc.).

I'll see if I can grab one of my shotlists to give you an idea of what I do.

jax_rox said:

You're confusing shotlisting with scheduling....

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Uh oh.... Perhaps I shouldn't be re-ordering my shotlist after all!

Jax - if you do stumble across a shotlist of yours, I'd love to see it. There's so much irrelevant crap on Google that it's really difficult to know what people actually do and have had success with.

I think I get the idea now though; I need to look at the shotlist as a list of camera set-ups, not a list of actions.

Cheers!

How does this work with a script that has no lines? I'm trying to write a viral that has no lines and is just the one actor basically walking around a house.

I don't know how to start with the script as it would basically just be a story board and shooting list?

Foggy said:

How does this work with a script that has no lines? I'm trying to write a viral that has no lines and is just the one actor basically walking around a house.

I don't know how to start with the script as it would basically just be a story board and shooting list?

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No difference really. Figure out each scene in your mind as you'd like to see it edited. Combine the shots that are identical and make a shot list. Order the shots into a make-sense shooting order.

You could still line the script, each shot would just begin and end on an action line instead of a dialogue line.

CraigL

All the others in this thread have offered great info. The only thing I can add is that a shooting script is sort of a marriage of the final cut of the screenplay with the shot list. It won't include as much details as the shot list, but it should indicate when each shot starts and stops.

Well, I'm halfway through fixing up my shotlist, then I'm going to make a start at my shooting script. I really like the idea of lining the script the way CraigL suggests above; I'm going to do that.

During production, using a combination of these things should make things run smoothly!

mad_hatter said:

Jax - if you do stumble across a shotlist of yours, I'd love to see it. There's so much irrelevant crap on Google that it's really difficult to know what people actually do and have had success with.

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I shot a short over the weekend, I'll try and break down how I approached this part of the pre-pro for it.

Firstly, on a plane from NYC to LA, I sat and broke down the script - I believe in a similar/same way as what CraigL refers to as 'lining' the script. It doesn't really matter what you call it, but it looked a little something like this (forgive the awful handwriting :


I draw little pictures on the side to help jog my memory sometimes (i.e. what was I thinking here..?).

From there, I created a list of locations and wrote next to them the amount of shots that would be taking place in each location; for example:

INT Engagement Party (12)
INT Bedroom (5)
INT Kitchen (3)
EXT Patio (3)
INT Car (2)
etc.

Upon returning home, I met with the Director, and I discussed with her my ideas for the shots, what I felt was going to work well (based on how I broke down the script), what she wanted, if there was anything specific she wanted/didn't want etc. etc.
That day, I handwrote a shotlist, which was almost all of the shots that I had figured when I was breaking down the script, but I always discuss it with my Director, and as often as possible I'll try and collaborate on that. Some Directors give you a shot list, but I prefer to collaborate on what will/won't work.

From there, I wrote it up into an app called ShotLister. What I wrote into the app was almost identical to what I'd handwritten. Here's how the app spits it out (formatted a bit nicer than handwriting):



I normally number shots 1.1, 1.2 etc. but ShotLister defaults to 1A, and there's a 1.1-type numbering on the right side.
I generally don't list lenses on my shot lists unless there's anything specific that needs to be super-wide or super-long etc.

From there, I sent the project to the AD, who I then sat down with and we scheduled it together. The schedule came out like this:



And that's basically it, at least in terms of shot listing. That's essentially my 'workflow' for shot listing just about anything I do. The specific formatting of your shotlist doesn't really matter - I've written some by hand, some in Excel, some in Numbers, some in Word, others in ShotLister. As long as you've got the information you need - What the shot is, who/what it's of, sometimes some sort of positioning in the scene, any special equipment you'll need (dolly, jib etc.), what scene the shot is in, how many shots in each scene - then you'll be fine.
A Director and I once sat and wrote a shotlist on Word using really simple little descriptions that meant nothing to anyone but us. We later explained it to the AD, who put it into ShotLister and created something a bit more manageable, but at the end of the day it doesn't matter what program or app it's done in, as long as it conveys the necessary information.

Awesome jax! Thanks!

jax_rox said:

I believe in a similar/same way as what CraigL refers to as 'lining' the script

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It is exactly. Only difference from what I do, I put an arrow if it continues to/from the next/prev page, otherwise a little line perpendicular to indicate it starts/stops.

I also find having that on set is helpful when we have a script supervisor, just to help them make sure everything was covered.

jax_rox said:

From there, I wrote it up into an app called ShotLister.

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Do you like Shotlister? Until they come out with an Android version, I won't be using it, but it does look pretty good.

I use Shot Designer when I'm doing anything with complicated blocking, and I love it. It does do some basic shotlist type reporting, but doesn't have the live shotlist component, which seemed kind of nice. I'm looking forward to the storyboarding addition to Shot Designer, but I'd also love to see them expand the shotlist side of it.

CraigL

CraigL said:

Do you like Shotlister? Until they come out with an Android version, I won't be using it, but it does look pretty good.

I use Shot Designer when I'm doing anything with complicated blocking, and I love it. It does do some basic shotlist type reporting, but doesn't have the live shotlist component, which seemed kind of nice. I'm looking forward to the storyboarding addition to Shot Designer, but I'd also love to see them expand the shotlist side of it.

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I haven't used Shot Designer much, a friend of mine has it and I tried it out once but I was more confused by it than anything.

I like ShotLister, though it's probably not all that necessary. I ended up getting it because almost every AD I work with uses it, and I felt like it streamlined the process a bit if we were both on the same thing. I bought it thinking you could share 'live' days - I was hoping I'd be able to see a copy of the live mode the AD uses, so I could see what we're doing, how far ahead/behind we are, what's coming up next, what we still need to get etc. For now, I haven't figured out if that's possible, but I'm hoping it is, or will be in a future update.
It's kinda expensive at $15, but then Artemis and pCam cost me $30 each..

What are "sticks" Jay?

Foggy said:

What are "sticks" Jay?

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Also referred to as 'legs' - a tripod:



Generally, on set we'll have high legs (above), low/baby legs:



And A hi-hat:



That's what you'd get out of a standard head + legs package from a rental house (of course, with a head as well).

Ah ok!

I'm really struggling with where to start with this short.I love the concept and I'm shooting at home so can't wait to start, but I just can't work out how to write it when it has no dialog.