Best lavalier for Zoom H4N (and other questions)

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eivashchenko

I'm prepping for essentially a no-budget film, and I'm trying to figure out how to get the best bang for the buck audio setup.

I'm sure it's a frustrating topic, as production gear in other areas has very much a "you get what you pay for" nature when it comes to quality. Thus, asking a lot and offering a little budget is obviously unreasonable. So I'll try to approach it from a different angle.

I have a Rode NTG-2 and a Zoom H4n already. I want to get the audio to sound a little more present, so I was thinking of investing in two lavalier mics to mike up the main talent. What lavs would be a good pair with my existing setup? I have about $300 available. I'm sure if I go too fancy, it'd be a waste anyways as it's recording to a Zoom, and if I go to cheap, it'll further cheapen the quality of sound.

I was also thinking about possibly going wired instead of wireless, use vampire clips to get the mic in place, and run the cable out of the bottom of the talent's pants. I don't imagine that I'll need their feet in frame for dialogue shots.

Also, I read that shotguns aren't ideal for indoor work. If I invested in 4 or 5 audio blankets and try and contain the sound, would that improve the quality?

Finally, I've read many times on the forums that the gear is only as good as the person running it. So, does anybody have any tips for getting the best sound with limited-quality gear? I've done a very little bit of booming before, and I know the very basics such as S/N ratio, inverse square law, watching out for sound reflections, etc. But are there any other tidbits that may help?

Thanks for any help!
 
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Hiring would not work too well, unfortunately. We're shooting with a tiny, committed crew, nobody's getting paid, and we're only shooting on a crazy schedule that consists mainly of weekends.

We want to do it this way, so that we can reduce the pressure of traditional narrative moviemaking. This way, we're not stressing about the time we have with rented gear or rented help, and just focus on making a quality movie.

Also, I'd highly prefer to own, because then I can use the mics on future projects, be they narrative, corporate, whatever.
 
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You can rent Sennheiser G3 systems for about $50/day. They cost about $700.

You can buy the Audio Technica Pro-88 wireless for about $160 each; I would not recommend getting anything of lesser quality (more headaches than you can imagine) and personally would not use anything less than the Sennheiser G3 systems.

Good production sound is all about skill, knowledge and prep.
 
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Thanks for the help! I'll definitely check out the AT Pro 88. I'd love to rent the G3, but 2 at 50 a day comes out to 100 a day, and probably 1500 by the end of the production. I couldn't afford that.

Just for my edification, what headaches would come with going cheaper than the Pro 88?

Also, could I get away with a wired lavalier? It seems like I could get a better sound out of a wired lav for around the same price.

And if I were to get the 88, would it be worth it to upgrade the mic down the road?

Btdubs, I checked out a couple of the links in your "so you wanna be a boom op" post, and it was really helpful. Thanks for posting that.
 
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Budget wireless systems are prone to problems like cross-talk, fade-outs (loss of transmission/reception), weak signal, distortion and limited range. Budget lavs tend to be tinny sounding, and do not handle moisture well (humidity, sweat). They also tend to be relatively large (especially when compared to a CountryMan B3 or B6, for example) so are more difficult to hide effectively.

Getting a better mic/lav is always a good idea, but a Sanken, CountryMan or Tram lav by itself will cost twice as much as the entire Pro-88 wireless system.

There are lots of decent tutorials on hiding lavs. Here's one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sNve5rNAMI
 
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eivashchenko said:
Thanks for the help! I'll definitely check out the AT Pro 88. I'd love to rent the G3, but 2 at 50 a day comes out to 100 a day, and probably 1500 by the end of the production. I couldn't afford that.
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You can keep rental costs down by shooting weekends and holidays. I have yet to find a rental shop that charges more than 1-1.5 day rate over a weekend.. even a long holiday weekend. So, for example say you were shooting over memorial day weekend, you would pick up the gear friday night, and return it tuesday morning, and at least with the shops I've worked with pay for a single day rental.
 
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Thanks for the vid, Alcove Audio. That info is super helpful!

I talked with the other guys, we looked into the quality of the 88, and mixed with the ntg-2, it'll do well. thanks for all the help guys!
 
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what's sonic set prep?
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Sound blankets (moving pads, quilts, whatever you can get - and lots of them!) to absorb ambient reflections (put them on C-stands away from the wall, don't pull them tight - leaves lots of folds), carpeting for the crew to stand on, sweeping hard floors to eliminate grit, etc. (a few pebbles can sound like an avalanche to a mic!), turning off appliances and HVAC while shooting... Anything and everything that you can to tame the sonic environment.

You should also prep props (felt on the bottoms of glasses and plates, etc. if the bottoms are not seen) and have the actors wear soft soled shoes or put something on them to control loud foot steps. Actors and crew should not corduroy (Shwip, Shwip, Shwip!) or satin, or vinyl and other artificial fibers; they are very noisy. They rustle and sound huge when picked up by a mic.

Yup, it's real PITA, but worth it.

Except for dialog (and sometimes even that) everything you hear in films is added during audio post. All you want to record on the set is very clean, clear dialog; you strip everything else out and replace it. Footsteps, hand props and other sounds are called Foley, which is capitalized in honor of Jack Foley, who codified the process. And, of course, "hard" sound effects; everything from doors to vehicles to weapons, although weapons handling is done in Foley. Ambient backgrounds are constructed in multiple tracks as are crowd sounds, which is handled by a loop group that does "Walla" and one-off lines.

On one of my current projects I need to create some gore; bullet impacts and pulling objects out of bodies. Fairly soon I'll be doing a day of "Vegetable Abuse" to make those sounds; hitting melons with hammers, doing weird things with cucumbers, squeezing fruits - you want soft squishy produce. I spent an hour a few weeks ago noisily munching king size pretzels; the werewolf in the film loves dog biscuits!

I have a huge duffle bag filled with cloth which I "dress" in various jackets, etc. to create body falls. A backpack with all kinds of hardware attached makes the sound of military gear. I had fun last week inventing the sounds for a dart gun, and doing whooshes for the flight of the darts by swinging thin dowels, a tennis racket and thin metal rods. I spent today dropping armloads of wood and other items (crashes), jostling a plastic box on a table, smacking my lips, and other odd things.

One of the "secrets" of audio post is to make most sounds much larger than you think they should be; they fall back into perspective when you mix.

Oh, you have so much to learn......... It's frustrating and fun all at the same time. Audio post is such a bizarre profession!
 
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I have a H4n and H1 and what I've been doing is hooking them directly up to PearStone OLM-10's which the actor then wears :)

The mic is a bit hot (boomy bass) but that is easy to fix in post and they only cost about $25.

There is better of course, and wireless if you need it but this option works well for our no-budget indies.

Example --> http://vimeo.com/58343215 at the 3minute mark, the ticket-giver is wearing the H1 and OLM-01, that is the only sound source on this set.
 
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