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Old 09-08-2012, 04:31 PM   #1
liamupton
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Getting around the 12 minute DSLR limit

Since the 12 minute limit is due to the file system of the memory cards, could you just reformat the cards as NTSC (or HFS+) in order to get around the limit? Does anyone have any experience doing this or something similar?
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Old 09-08-2012, 05:00 PM   #2
micster
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I was told that time limits on DSLR's are so the camera's arnt classed as camcorders, which had some sort of tax reason or something like that. Either way, I doubt that'd work.
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Old 09-08-2012, 05:20 PM   #3
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I've tried using a 45 minute card, but it still overheats after 12 minutes, on my Canon T3i. I was told that there is some Sony DSLRs that are designed not to overheat, so I suppose you can get a 45 minute card or longer, and shoot with one of those.
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Old 09-08-2012, 08:50 PM   #4
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Even if you can get round the 12 min limit, you're going to run into other problems. If you're recording audio on to a separate device you're going to run into drift problems (even before 12min in all likelihood). Even if you are recording sound internally, some DSLRs use different clocks for their audio and picture reference, so the same drift problem over time.

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Old 09-08-2012, 10:26 PM   #5
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I know the GH2 doesn't over heat. But that's not technically a DSLR.
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Old 09-16-2012, 03:01 AM   #6
8salacious9
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If your using a dslr to record something longer than 12 minutes in a row then get a camcorder.. I have yet to experience when I would need to film for more than 12 minutes in a row ?

I also have the t3i which I used for 5 hours recording in the boiling hot sun, just get a reflective material and hold it over your camera or get someone to do it either way you should be ok, I was using a battery grip though so I don't know if that would help anything?
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Old 09-17-2012, 08:43 AM   #7
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There are firmware hacks for a lot of cameras that will stop recording when the limit is reached and auto start a new clip, but basically that's it. If you had a camera with clean HDMI out you could go to an external recorder, but most DSLRs aren't clean HDMI.

This is the #1 reason DSLR are not well suited to "event" recording. In "narrative" it would be very rare for me to have a clip longer than 3 or 4 minutes. Most clips less than 2 minutes.
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Old 09-24-2012, 02:18 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8salacious9 View Post
If your using a dslr to record something longer than 12 minutes in a row then get a camcorder.. I have yet to experience when I would need to film for more than 12 minutes in a row ?

I also have the t3i which I used for 5 hours recording in the boiling hot sun, just get a reflective material and hold it over your camera or get someone to do it either way you should be ok, I was using a battery grip though so I don't know if that would help anything?
Do you mean you shot 5 hours of video or time lapse under scorching sun? If it is time lapse, then camera circuit gets periodic rest in between the shots, but video is a different ballgame. Can you please share us the details? It will be very helpful for any such future project.
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Old 09-24-2012, 02:28 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by AudioPostExpert View Post
Even if you can get round the 12 min limit, you're going to run into other problems. If you're recording audio on to a separate device you're going to run into drift problems (even before 12min in all likelihood). Even if you are recording sound internally, some DSLRs use different clocks for their audio and picture reference, so the same drift problem over time.

G
Those are ancient issues of past. Canon 5D MKII firmware 2.0.3 onwards, it shoots in proper frame rates

NTSC
19201080 : earlier 30 fps changed to actual 29.97 fps
19201080 : earlier 24 fps changed to actual 23.976 fps
640480 : earlier 30 fps changed to actual 29.97 fps

and in PAL
19201080 : earlier 25 fps changed to actual 25.0 fps
19201080 : earlier 24 fps changed to actual 23.976 fps
640480 : earlier 25 fps changed to actual 25.0 fps

No more sync problem.
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Old 09-24-2012, 06:44 AM   #10
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Those are ancient issues of past. Canon 5D MKII firmware 2.0.3 onwards, it shoots in proper frame rates ... No more sync problem.
No I'm not referring to an issue with a particular camera, I'm referring to an issue common to all digital equipment!

Let's take an example of standard HD recording, where the picture is recorded at 23.976 frames per second and the audio is recorded at 48,000 samples per second. For the audio to stay in sync with the picture, the internal clocks measuring the duration of a second for both the picture recording and for the audio recording have to stay perfectly in sync with each other. Even atomic clocks will not stay perfectly in sync with each other and to be sure, not even professional grade equipment contains internal clocks anywhere near as accurate as an atomic clock. The result is that as the duration of the take increases, so the discrepancy between the picture clock and audio clock accumulates and eventually this drift becomes a serious issue. How long before this drift becomes apparent will depend on the quality of the clock and clocking circuitry in the camera's picture and audio circuitry (or separate audio recorder) but this is likely to happen sooner rather than later as DSLRs tend to have budget quality internal clocks and clocking circuitry.

The solution to this drift problem is to run both the picture recording and audio recording from a single, common clock source but DSLRs do not provide the functionality to sync to an external clock source, so there is no solution to maintaining sync during longer takes with DSLRs.

If you are going to advertise yourself as a "university" you really need to have a good understanding of these basic digital facts!

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Old 09-24-2012, 08:38 AM   #11
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APE is correct. Audio drifts on long takes, period. The only way around it is to have both devices synced to a common clock which can be done with a DSLR (I believe), but it's a pretty expensive piece of gear to add.
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Old 09-24-2012, 08:57 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by liamupton View Post
Since the 12 minute limit is due to the file system of the memory cards, could you just reformat the cards as NTSC (or HFS+) in order to get around the limit? Does anyone have any experience doing this or something similar?
12 min limit is a file format issue. Older windows format of FAT32 limits file sizes to 4.2gigs or something similar. That's what limits your video to 12 minutes.

If you reformat your SD card to NTFS, which does not have the 4gig limit, your Canon Operating system will not recognize it. So you will be unable to use the format in your camera.

I'm not sure there is a way around this.
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Old 09-25-2012, 03:04 PM   #13
Mitra
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Originally Posted by Gonzo_Entertainment View Post
APE is correct. Audio drifts on long takes, period. The only way around it is to have both devices synced to a common clock which can be done with a DSLR (I believe), but it's a pretty expensive piece of gear to add.
Camera and recorder with timebase is of course the ideal solution but unfortunately beyond budget for most indie filmmaker at this moment. However, this is really not a huge issue as it is simple to rerender the sound with new time length without changing the pitch. With latest innovation in DAW and NLEs, the slight time sync issue in dual system is very easy to resolve. You can do it in Premiere, FCP and in almost all pro DAWs.

Last edited by Mitra; 09-25-2012 at 03:15 PM.
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Old 09-25-2012, 03:36 PM   #14
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...this is really not a huge issue as it is simple to rerender the sound with new time length without changing the pitch.
This method is entirely likely to introduce audio artefacts and just time stretching/compressing the audio may still not achieve accurate sync.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitra View Post
With latest innovation in DAW and NLEs, the slight time sync issue in dual system is very easy to resolve. You can do it in Premiere, FCP and in almost all pro DAWs.
Only with a dual system and only if you have recorded and maintained accurately sync'ed dialogue from the camera in the first place. AFAIK, most DSLRs employ cheap, off the shelf ADCs which includes an integrated clock, so even within the camera the audio and picture may not be running from a common timebase and are therefore likely drift during long takes. In this case, none of the tools like pluraleyes or NLEs or pro DAWs will easily be able to resolve this problem.

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Old 09-25-2012, 04:09 PM   #15
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This method is entirely likely to introduce audio artefacts and just time stretching/compressing the audio may still not achieve accurate sync.
G
Try it and you will be impressed. Artifacts generated by MP3 compression will be far worse than any such time remapping artifacts. Remember, film is an art and many of us shoot film with iPhone. In US, we lovingly call artifact seekers as "Measurebator"s. Fortunately most indie filmmakers are not :-) We try to do maximum with the resources we can afford.

Last edited by Mitra; 09-25-2012 at 04:32 PM.
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