Older sound kit...

[gorillaonabike]

I am just wondering about older gear. For example, the Marantz 660 or 670 were great pieces of kit and if I look at the specs, they appeared to be significantly stronger than, for example, a Tascam DR100 MkII! I am astonished at how good some of the slightly older stuff is and wanted to ask if the real sound gurus thought the same.

Is any of this kit re-usable? Is any of it worth buying and using as backup or even primary recorders? And are there any slightly older, used mixers which could provide my sound with that bit of extra punch for less $?

[Alcove Audio]

The only issue would be bit rates; with 16bit you have less headroom. There shouldn't be any real problems as far as I know.

*** It's been quite a while, but I seem to remember that the original PMD-660s didn't do 48kHz, so there is the vague possibility that you may have minor issues when upsampling to 48kHz after you do your data dump and import into you NLE or DAW.


Now, when it comes to mics, some older mics are still highly in demand. Extreme audiophiles will pay crazy prices for '30's and '40's radio and film mics, especially from Germany.

[gorillaonabike]

Originally Posted by Alcove Audio

The only issue would be bit rates; with 16bit you have less headroom. There shouldn't be any real problems as far as I know.

*** It's been quite a while, but I seem to remember that the original PMD-660s didn't do 48kHz, so there is the vague possibility that you may have minor issues when upsampling to 48kHz after you do your data dump and import into you NLE or DAW.


Now, when it comes to mics, some older mics are still highly in demand. Extreme audiophiles will pay crazy prices for '30's and '40's radio and film mics, especially from Germany.

Good point about the bit rates. They did something strange - 44.1 or something like that which would cause issues...

Thanks for this - don't know what I'd do without you! Anytime you're over this side of the pond, let me know as I owe you more than a few pints of beer.

[Alcove Audio]

Originally Posted by gorillaonabike

They did something strange - 44.1 or something like that which would cause issues...

44.1kHz is not strange, it's CD standard.

Originally Posted by gorillaonabike

Thanks for this - don't know what I'd do without you! Anytime you're over this side of the pond, let me know as I owe you more than a few pints of beer.

If I somehow ever manage to collect all the beer debts I'm owed I would be drunk 24/7 for the next 25 years...

I'm not as think as you drunk I am.....

[JoshL]

Originally Posted by Alcove Audio

If I somehow ever manage to collect all the beer debts I'm owed I would be drunk 24/7 for the next 25 years...

...you say that like it's a BAD thing!

[AudioPostExpert]

Originally Posted by gorillaonabike

Good point about the bit rates. They did something strange - 44.1 or something like that which would cause issues...

The sample rate won't make much of a difference, except for the fact that you'll have to sample rate convert everything to 48kHz, which can be a bit time consuming. The bigger problem is only having 16bits to play with. 24bit provides far greater headroom but then again, many people don't seem to realise this fact and record at levels more apt for a 16bit recorder anyway!

G

[gorillaonabike]

Originally Posted by AudioPostExpert

The sample rate won't make much of a difference, except for the fact that you'll have to sample rate convert everything to 48kHz, which can be a bit time consuming. The bigger problem is only having 16bits to play with. 24bit provides far greater headroom but then again, many people don't seem to realise this fact and record at levels more apt for a 16bit recorder anyway!

G

And you too Audiopost - you and Alcove had better get your drinking arms out any time you come over this side of the pond...

[Alcove Audio]

Pay attention - A.P.E. is already over there...

AudioPostExpert
Basic Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Europe

[AudioPostExpert]

Originally Posted by gorillaonabike

And you too Audiopost - you and Alcove had better get your drinking arms out any time you come over this side of the pond...

Thanks for the offer. I'm actually from London originally (or just north of it) and I'll be back in old blighty for a short visit in about 4 weeks. I've only got a couple of days in London though and that'll be crammed with trying to show my wife the sights. If you're about anyway though with 10 mins to spare, a quick cup of coffee in the west end (or even a pint) somewhere would be good!

Cheers, G

[gorillaonabike]

Originally Posted by AudioPostExpert

Thanks for the offer. I'm actually from London originally (or just north of it) and I'll be back in old blighty for a short visit in about 4 weeks. I've only got a couple of days in London though and that'll be crammed with trying to show my wife the sights. If you're about anyway though with 10 mins to spare, a quick cup of coffee in the west end (or even a pint) somewhere would be good!

Cheers, G

PINT!!!!! Yay!!!!! Just drop me a PM and free beers are yours if I'm around!

Incidentally, I was looking at the specs for a Marantz PMD 670 which seems to be as good as it gets. It appears to be the same in the pre-amp stakes than the Mk2 Tascam DR100 which amazes me! Is this correct or am I just reading the specs incorrectly?

http://www.avisoft.com/recordertests.htm - appears to confirm this...

[AudioPostExpert]

Originally Posted by gorillaonabike

PINT!!!!! Yay!!!!! Just drop me a PM and free beers are yours if I'm around!

Incidentally, I was looking at the specs for a Marantz PMD 670 which seems to be as good as it gets. It appears to be the same in the pre-amp stakes than the Mk2 Tascam DR100 which amazes me! Is this correct or am I just reading the specs incorrectly?

http://www.avisoft.com/recordertests.htm - appears to confirm this...

I'll PM you closer to the time, I'll be in London 12-13 Oct.

I wouldn't say the PMD 670 appears to be as good as it gets. The Tascam HD-P2 has much better specs and so do many others. There are four considerations though:

1. The mic-pres would start distorting well before the clipping point. How much before would depend on how well they're designed.

2. There's no indication on the table of results (because it is to some extent subjective), of the functionality of each unit. In essence how easy is it to actually achieve the best results. For example, having bigger more accurate meters makes it much easier to set accurate levels.

3. The measurements were made with the gain set to max. If the gain was set low, say for use with a dedicated mixer or mic-pres, the figures and how they compare to each other would be far different. For example, I would expect the Sound Devices 722 to compare much better under those conditions because it's designed is more tailored towards use with an external mixer.

4. Additionally useful functionality is outside the scope of the tests. For example The tascam HD-P2 will lock to a tri-sync signal. Having the recorder stay perfectly in sync forever could trump an extra dBu here or there!

BTW, I just posted this, which has some baring on this discussion.

Cheers, G

[wheatgrinder]

I have a 660 moded by oade brothers. Its OK.

Its pretty hissy before the mod by the way. Plus I broke the headphone jack last shoot. As 2001Productions will attest to! (he swung boom on The Hot Rod) I had a battery powered headphone amp as back up so all was not lost, but that headphone jack is surface mount only, dont stress it out.

[gorillaonabike]

Originally Posted by Alcove Audio

Pay attention - A.P.E. is already over there...

AudioPostExpert
Basic Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Europe

* Ahem *

He's not in the UK at the moment... otherwise we'd already be in a pub...

[gorillaonabike]

Originally Posted by wheatgrinder

I have a 660 moded by oade brothers. Its OK.

Its pretty hissy before the mod by the way. Plus I broke the headphone jack last shoot. As 2001Productions will attest to! (he swung boom on The Hot Rod) I had a battery powered headphone amp as back up so all was not lost, but that headphone jack is surface mount only, dont stress it out.

As an idea of how much more we have to pay, used 660s are being advertised for $450 USD in the UK... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MARANTZ-PM...ht_1279wt_1090

Ouch!

[wheatgrinder]

I paid $260 for mine on CL. Thats way too much.. when looking on ebay be sure to show "completed items only" to see what people are actually PAYING for a thing..