Should I work with these guys?

[Flimmaker1473]

Okay so I am an actor first. But I am also a writer and would like to direct one day (I am going to school for directing and I am going to have to make a short film). I wrote a whole screenplay and sent it to this small production company in Delaware. They reviewed it and liked it. We met up for Lunch and discussed some things. They wanted to change some things and brought in ideas. But I happened to like a lot of their ideas.
We decided to start production in october and they want to find a director. They also want us to be equal producers and have 33% say each.

The issues I had with them were

They asked me if I knew anyone that could help financially. I know a lot of people in the business around me. I told them the producer of the one of the films I am going might come on as a executive producer. I even told them that he would assist with finding a director. And they acted like they were offended.

I told them I want to star in it (of course no different from when John Cusack or Jason Segel writes a film). They said that could be arranged. But I would have to audition. Should I have to audition for a film I wrote? I don't know if this is normal or not.

They asked me if I could bring $$. Okay I am just getting back into the business. I came to them to produce it and pay for it. Why should I have to put money into one of my first movies?

[directorik]

Originally Posted by Flimmaker1473

Why should I have to put money into one of my first movies?

Everyone puts their own money into their first films. Who
is going to pay for the short film you direct for school?

Originally Posted by Flimmaker1473

We decided to start production in october and they want to find a director. They also want us to be equal producers and have 33% say each.

"They" should get half and you get half. If there are two of
them - they get half, if there are five of them - they get half.
The issue you have is deciding half (or 33%) of what.

Originally Posted by Flimmaker1473

They asked me if I knew anyone that could help financially. I know a lot of people in the business around me. I told them the producer of the one of the films I am going might come on as a executive producer. I even told them that he would assist with finding a director. And they acted like they were offended.

They ask you if you know anyone who can help financially and you
tell them yes and they act offended?

Dump them.

You know a lot of people in business, you already have a film you're
doing with a producer - you don't need them at all.

Originally Posted by Flimmaker1473

I told them I want to star in it (of course no different from when John Cusack or Jason Segel writes a film). They said that could be arranged. But I would have to audition. Should I have to audition for a film I wrote? I don't know if this is normal or not.

Yes it's normal. The director might have someone in mind they want
to star in the movie. The producers might have someone in mind they
want to star in the movie. Those people should get a chance too.

Now if this part of the deal isn't something you like then tell them you
get to star in it without an audition or they can't produce your script.
You are finding the money, you wrote it - YOU are in control.

Originally Posted by Flimmaker1473

They asked me if I could bring $$. Okay I am just getting back into the business. I came to them to produce it and pay for it.

If you want then to pay for it and producer it then THEY are in control.
Looks like you need to make a difficult decision. If you find the money
YOU are in control and YOU make the decisions. If they find the money
and produce it THEY are in control. If you find half of the money and
they find half of the money you are going to have to compromise.

My advice? Dump them.

[GuerrillaAngel]

I'm on board with rik. Pass.

[mussonman]

dump them unless they change every part of the deal to what YOU want. say "These are the terms, or you will have no part in this project."

[Cracker Funk]

I'm gonna take it one step further and say that you should poop in a paper bag, put it on their porch, light it on fire, ring their doorbell, then run away.



Dude, there's no way that any of us can give you sound advice, based on the limited info you're giving us, particularly since we're only hearing it from one side.

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Do you have other investors? Are your other investors completely on-board? Should these guys produce your script, but choose not to cast you in the lead (which would be their prerogative, as producers), would you not benefit in other ways? Is this your only opportunity to ever write a script that is to be your star-vehicle?

So many questions. You can answer them much better than we can.

[mussonman]

further input is, since it is YOUR movie, you definitely should put money into it, especially if its one of your first. it also gives you more of a right to creative control... many writer/actors also produce their films so they can keep this creative control

[Flimmaker1473]

Originally Posted by directorik

Everyone puts their own money into their first films. Who
is going to pay for the short film you direct for school?

Fair enough

Originally Posted by directorik

"They" should get half and you get half. If there are two of
them - they get half, if there are five of them - they get half.
The issue you have is deciding half (or 33%) of what.

I thought it was weird how they split. Since it is their production company it would be 66% to my 33%.

Originally Posted by directorik

They ask you if you know anyone who can help financially and you
tell them yes and they act offended?

Dump them.

You know a lot of people in business, you already have a film you're
doing with a producer - you don't need them at all.

I am really considering give them an ultimatum. But I want to give them a reasonable one. Worst comes to worse the producer that I am talking about already wants me in his other films and a starring role in one. I could try to work with him only.

Originally Posted by directorik

Yes it's normal. The director might have someone in mind they want
to star in the movie. The producers might have someone in mind they
want to star in the movie. Those people should get a chance too.

Now if this part of the deal isn't something you like then tell them you
get to star in it without an audition or they can't produce your script.
You are finding the money, you wrote it - YOU are in control.


If you want then to pay for it and producer it then THEY are in control.
Looks like you need to make a difficult decision. If you find the money
YOU are in control and YOU make the decisions. If they find the money
and produce it THEY are in control. If you find half of the money and
they find half of the money you are going to have to compromise.

My advice? Dump them.

I think for beginners they are acting too big time. That is their main issue. And that is not how Indie production companies should be. I just sent them an email with two specific and reasonable demands that 1. the control is split 50%. They have 50% together and I have 50%. 2. I will do a screen test, but there will be no auditions for the role I want to play.

[Flimmaker1473]

Originally Posted by Cracker Funk

I'm gonna take it one step further and say that you should poop in a paper bag, put it on their porch, light it on fire, ring their doorbell, then run away.



Dude, there's no way that any of us can give you sound advice, based on the limited info you're giving us, particularly since we're only hearing it from one side.

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. Do you have other investors? Are your other investors completely on-board? Should these guys produce your script, but choose not to cast you in the lead (which would be their prerogative, as producers), would you not benefit in other ways? Is this your only opportunity to ever write a script that is to be your star-vehicle?

So many questions. You can answer them much better than we can.

There really isn't anything else left to say. It all happened rather quick.

I have someone who is interested in being an executive producer (a paying one). When I said that and that he could help find a director, they got offended. They said this


"You need to be clear on what you want Highly Sober to do on this project. You brought the film to us to produce, and now you are bringing on a guy as executive producer. If he would like to fundraiser that is all well and good, but you're saying he can find a director. You need to make it clear exactly what you are looking for from us so there are no misunderstandings as far as job roles, casting, directing, marketing and vision of this project before we move forward. I'm sure your friend is well qualified on the producing aspect, but we need a clear statement as far as your intentions before we can commit to this project."

I thought it was funny that they used their company named to me when I met their only employees... the two of them.

[rayw]

There are plenty of films with multiple executive producers, where everyone pours in variable percentages of cash to get the project to market.

These guys are being "all us" glory hounds.

If you really really want your screenplay done these unsavory guys may be your only choice - unless you find a better alternative.

From their vantage point - YOU are coming to ask THEM to $$PAY$$ for YOUR screenplay with YOU as the lead actor.
How marketable is that? Domestic or for foreign sales.
That had better be one humdinger of a marketable screenplay and you a pretty butts-in-seats-actor for THEM to take a $$RISK$$ like that.
You are unable or unwilling to $$PAY$$ for this - but you want someone ELSE to $$PAY$$ for it.
Well... wouldn't we all like someone else to $$PAY$$ for our lunches?

So, from that vantage point they have a sensible argument.

Which brings us back to you and your writing/acting/directing career.
What skin are you willing to put in the game and how much do you want to gamble away?

Don't burn any bridges. You may need these guys for a later project, or better yet, they can refer you to someone else!
This ain't an easy game.

Good luck.

[directorik]

Originally Posted by Flimmaker1473

They said this


"You need to be clear on what you want Highly Sober to do on this project. You brought the film to us to produce, and now you are bringing on a guy as executive producer. If he would like to fundraiser that is all well and good, but you're saying he can find a director. You need to make it clear exactly what you are looking for from us so there are no misunderstandings as far as job roles, casting, directing, marketing and vision of this project before we move forward. I'm sure your friend is well qualified on the producing aspect, but we need a clear statement as far as your intentions before we can commit to this project."

I must say that reply from them seems reasonable and professional
to me. Not “big time” at all. Just clear, concise and professional.

If you brought the script to them and you have specific demands you
should put those demands and expectations in writing. That way they
know if you are the right fit for what they want to do.

You seem to have an idea of how independent prodCo’s should be.
Perhaps what YOU think they should be doing isn’t what THEY think
they should be doing. So you need to tell them, in writing, exactly
what YOU think they should do. Then they can make an informed
decision on working with you. Essentially what they said to you.

ray brings up excellent points. You want them to pay for everything
yet you want to star in the movie and have them give up 50% of “control”.
What that means to you is unclear. If they are finding the money (and
if they get the money) are you a bankable enough star to drive this film
when it comes to distribution? You should be thrilled they are willing to
raise the money, pay your fee as writer, give you even 33% of control
consider you as star and produce your film.

Are you getting better offers?

[mussonman]

Originally Posted by Flimmaker1473

I thought it was funny that they used their company named to me when I met their only employees... the two of them.

I think you should channel this experience into a comedy, because this whole situation is pretty funny

[Flimmaker1473]

Originally Posted by rayw

There are plenty of films with multiple executive producers, where everyone pours in variable percentages of cash to get the project to market.

These guys are being "all us" glory hounds.

If you really really want your screenplay done these unsavory guys may be your only choice - unless you find a better alternative.

From their vantage point - YOU are coming to ask THEM to $$PAY$$ for YOUR screenplay with YOU as the lead actor.
How marketable is that? Domestic or for foreign sales.
That had better be one humdinger of a marketable screenplay and you a pretty butts-in-seats-actor for THEM to take a $$RISK$$ like that.
You are unable or unwilling to $$PAY$$ for this - but you want someone ELSE to $$PAY$$ for it.
Well... wouldn't we all like someone else to $$PAY$$ for our lunches?

So, from that vantage point they have a sensible argument.

Which brings us back to you and your writing/acting/directing career.
What skin are you willing to put in the game and how much do you want to gamble away?

Don't burn any bridges. You may need these guys for a later project, or better yet, they can refer you to someone else!
This ain't an easy game.

Good luck.

I have thought about the fact that they could be my best option. I am talking to a few other people though.

I am just starting out as an actor. So (not to toot my own horn) I will let my acting skills do the talking. The screenplay is something that is pretty marketable. Since this is an Indie film the plan is that it is going to film festival route. Then it would get it into those small theaters. They said they want to do it on an ultra low budget.

They are filming another film so they are not responding to my emails. And I don't want to bother them by calling them. They said they want to edit the script with me at the end of the summer. So we'll see then. They really like the story so I am sure they are going to try harder not to get me to walk away.

[Flimmaker1473]

Originally Posted by directorik

I must say that reply from them seems reasonable and professional
to me. Not “big time” at all. Just clear, concise and professional.

If you brought the script to them and you have specific demands you
should put those demands and expectations in writing. That way they
know if you are the right fit for what they want to do.

You seem to have an idea of how independent prodCo’s should be.
Perhaps what YOU think they should be doing isn’t what THEY think
they should be doing. So you need to tell them, in writing, exactly
what YOU think they should do. Then they can make an informed
decision on working with you. Essentially what they said to you.

ray brings up excellent points. You want them to pay for everything
yet you want to star in the movie and have them give up 50% of “control”.
What that means to you is unclear. If they are finding the money (and
if they get the money) are you a bankable enough star to drive this film
when it comes to distribution? You should be thrilled they are willing to
raise the money, pay your fee as writer, give you even 33% of control
consider you as star and produce your film.

Are you getting better offers?

Yeah they sound professional. But like Ray said, they are glory hounds.

I think you are right. What I think they should be doing isn't perhaps what they think the should be doing.

I am just starting out. Though by the time is movie is out I would have been in three films and a pilot for a t.v that is going to sundance. So I am on the rise.

I am going to talk to this producer in my area to today and see what he says. If he is into I might just go with him.

[Morris]

I agree with Rik. However, I am suspicious. While you are on the rise, the deal they offered seems too good if you dont have to bring any money to the table. Make sure you get everything in writing and go to a good entertainment attorney to check it out.

[rayw]

Originally Posted by Flimmaker1473

They said they want to edit the script with me at the end of the summer... They really like the story so I am sure they are going to try harder not to get me to walk away.

A) Between now and then, you need to think of eight different ways the FUNDAMENTALS of your screenplay can be transplanted into different settings and genres.

DANCES WITH WOLVES: Disillusioned soldier meets traditional enemies makes friends fights against countrymen
THE LAST SAMURAI: Disillusioned soldier meets traditional enemies makes friends fights against countrymen
AVATAR: Disillusioned soldier meets traditional enemies makes friends fights against countrymen

Make the differences significant.

Because these... "people" are going to pull the "Ship of Theseus" stunt on you, and in four years you might see some product of theirs (or one they sold to someone else to produce) that vaaaaaguely resembles what you're bringing to them.

Yeah. I'm paranoid.
It's called an adaptation and your legal recourse is nil if they're smarter than you are.

CYA.
Out gun them at their own game.


B) Don't kid yourself.
They're bird dogging, literally, dozens if not a couple hundred other "creative resources."
Whichever honey gives it up first they'll move on.
If you fell over dead in your sleep tonight (that was a dry joke, BTW) they would never miss your... no phone calls again. Like something never happened.
Life goes on.
Tra-la-la-la-la.


Good luck. Sincerely.