Have YOU made a profit on your film?

This should be a fun one... :D

Fellow filmmakers get REALLY upset with me when I say that in today's market it is nearly impossible (for us) to make a profit on an indie film. (My wife and I have made eight feature films, and none of them have even come close to breaking even)....and yes, we will keep trying.

My question is, who (on this forum) has actually made a PROFIT on YOUR film? (Not your friend's film, not the Paranormal people...YOUR film?
 
We made a profit on our Nativity short through online distribution in December. I don't expect to sell many more copies/downloads until next December seeing as it's seasonal, but yes, we turned a profit.
 
I've made a profit on every video I've shot. I just started doing feature lengths so I'll let you know at a later point now that I have one in post-production.
 
This should be a fun one... :D

Fellow filmmakers get REALLY upset with me when I say that in today's market it is nearly impossible (for us) to make a profit on an indie film. (My wife and I have made eight feature films, and none of them have even come close to breaking even)....and yes, we will keep trying.

My question is, who (on this forum) has actually made a PROFIT on YOUR film? (Not your friend's film, not the Paranormal people...YOUR film?


Excellent question, with one applicable response already.

But, are you asking specifically for feature films?
 
This should be a fun one... :D

Fellow filmmakers get REALLY upset with me when I say that in today's market it is nearly impossible (for us) to make a profit on an indie film. (My wife and I have made eight feature films, and none of them have even come close to breaking even)....and yes, we will keep trying.

My question is, who (on this forum) has actually made a PROFIT on YOUR film? (Not your friend's film, not the Paranormal people...YOUR film?

It feels like you're trying to pick a fight. Perhaps it happens in other parts of your life, but I didn't see anybody get upset at the comment you made in the self-funded features thread:

Indie filmmaking is a hobby, like buying a boat, or collecting stamps. The pleasure is in
the "doing". On your films, only spend what you can afford to lose. My wife and I have
made EIGHT feature films as "a hobby"...spending about $2500.00 each of our own money...and
we will continue to do so as long as we have money to put into it...as a hobby.

Don't expect anyone to fund your projects, because it's not going to happen. Indie films
will never make money, and once you realize that, you won't be able to look an "investor"
in the face and ask him for money...he's not INVESTING, he's "giving" you the money. Once
you've made the film, the money's gone.

Sorry, but it's the truth. I'm 60 years old and have been doing this for a long time...

Some of us corrected you, because you were wrong, but I didn't see anybody get upset. What you're saying, now, is very different, because now you are at least admitting that some indie films make money. And that is the truth of the matter.
 
It feels like you're trying to pick a fight. Perhaps it happens in other parts of your life, but I didn't see anybody get upset at the comment you made in the self-funded features thread:

I agree with you, Cf, but let him, because honestly people need to read this. So when someone else comes around talkin' like this, we can all direct them right to this thread. Just give it a few minutes.
 
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"I'm 60 and have been doing it for a long time."

I'm sorry but I don't understand anything you're saying. I've made a huge profit on my film, and I'm young. 2012 looks to be the most profitable year for the film yet, with projections pointing towards a significant amount that might help pay for my next film.

So I'm sorry, but whatever you've been doing for a "long time," it simply hasn't been successful. If you didn't make a profit, it's not because of a broken system, it's because you failed to make a film that works within the system you chose...that's all. Lots of people make a profit, but it takes the proper knowhow, business sense, and in the end the proper product aimed at the proper market...and the right marketing push. Don't blame the fact it was an indie film as the reason for its failure. I can shoot holes in that all day long.

Indie films can ABSOLUTELY be profitable. Investors CAN get their money back. Filmmaking CAN be a source of living income. This is not a hobby, this is not merely for fun, this is my life and my (now thankfully) career.

If you have any questions or want to share more about what you did do and share why it wasn't profitable, I would be happy to bat it back and forth and figure out why here on the boards because there is a reason. You might not like the answer, but at least I can help figure it out if you'd like.

Somehow I know you won't want to do that, but that's fine.

Here's your site right?: http://etheridgeproductions.scriptmania.com/ I'll look around.
 
Part of the educational process is to hear all sides of the story, and then to draw our own conclusions.

My point is aimed at any (new) filmmaker who might have pie-in-the-sky expectations about
getting rich making indie films. My wife and I sponsor a film festival, and often speak to filmmakers who have cashed-in their retirement accounts, maxed their credit cards, and mortgaged their homes to make films that went absolutely nowhere. (I can think of
six films off the top of my head). I'm just telling new filmmakers not to make the same
mistake. Only spend what you can afford to lose.

I'm happy for the filmmakers who have made money...I really am.

I'm not trying to pick a fight, nor am I trying to be difficult (And I'm sorry if I come
across that way). Old people like me (I'm 60) are generally very opinionated, and in
many cases we are wrong.

For what it's worth, I have been around filmmakers all my life. I was a member of the
INTERNATIONAL CINEMATOGRAPHER'S GUILD (IATSE-local 600) for over 30 years, and
worked in television for over 35 years. I saw a lot of people make films.

Best wishes to all. Have fun.
 
I WILL make a profit on my first film in about another year. Im selling it on Amazon and I prolly have $1500 into the film and have had it on Amazon for 2 years, so after 3 years , it will have made $1 profit,

SOOOOO...

Speaking seriously for me, the real answer is no. I made the most horrid unwatchable turdfests a first time filmmaker could do. Horrid directing, horrid camera work, lousy sound work, lousy editing, no story really came out, and I was in charge of everything so far. The acting was not much better than the directing so Cannibal Killer Clowns On Dope shall live in infamy.

I'm so ashamed of the effort overall that I would never approach anyone for distribution that my low self esteem could not handle it.

I have another previous effort in the can so to speak and it is almost in post production so if it can be shined up, it might see the light. It still has flaws, but it has some signs of life as I type this, time will tell.

I will move on and get better. I think I could now make a much better effort now that I have learned much the hard way. Im going to start a new project this month and expect to only have $150 invested in total production, Expenses might go up to $160 if the talent needs a set of pasties. The movie will turn a profit much quicker and I seriously will seek distribution. he he he he
 
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Fellow filmmakers get REALLY upset with me when I say that in today's market it is nearly impossible (for us) to make a profit on an indie film.
And I can see why.

When a 60 year old makes this statement it seems as if you are
speaking from experience. Not just your personal experience. The
truth is in today’s market it’s actually easier to make a profit.
There are more avenues available and filmmakers are acting as
their own distributors.

It seems to me that making films in the $2,500 range you should
be able to make a little on each one. With some heavy on-line
marketing and low sale price making, say $3,000, shouldn't be too
difficult. I wonder how you are marketing and distributing these
movies.

To answer your question: I made a profit on three of the four films
I (with partners) financed. Since those movies I get paid so the
profit or loss is absorbed by the prodCo and/or distributor. But I
think most of the movies I have written, produced or directed have
made a profit.
 
At $2500, if you just had a little fan base of your own grown on Twitter or Facebook, you only need to sell like 200 copies to get that money back...assuming you sold it yourself for maybe $15 on your site plus shipping and Paypal fees.

Again, who's the film for and is there anyone who would care to watch it? It's the same old ploy in any other industry. You make something people want, and if you're not, then what are you making it for? I see the point of making films because it's fun, but the time involved to do something good takes a lot out of you, and the need to make enough to live at the same time grows with every project you try to do (if you intend to grow).

Spending these smaller amounts of money, it's never been easier to make a profit...problem is, do you have something to profit from, and people who want what you got?
 
And since there are a lot of eyes on this thread, and probably will be... Kyle's posted this in another:

My first film was mostly self-funded with little bits and pieces thrown in. I only made $25,000 a year at the time and spent every spare dime I had on buying equipment just to make the film possible. It took over a year to gather it all, and renting wasn't an option or borrowing. I lived in a town of 1200 and anything I bought was based on online reviews and whatever I could dig up.

The film was in the can for that $25,000 because nobody was paid, and we shot the film many days spread out over a year. Actors wore their own clothes, no makeup, we shot in locations we got for free, and the actors weren't even actors they were friends/family.

I was producer, writer, director, dp, editor, colorist, web designer, graphic designer, marketing guy, dvd authoring, etc. The only jobs left open were composing and the final mix which I got done later and were paid. I did have a gaffer on set who also held boom and actors carried what they could. It was a 2 man crew almost every day...hard work.

I did have to spend more to finish the film (like I said music/final mix) but doing so much in house kept everything free. A credit card was used eventually but only $5000 or so which was paid off before the film came out. A little investment here/there to finish up some lose ends and get the initial DVD copies made, but those were all paid back before the film came out.

This IS possible folks. The profits on the film have been substantial and we've done well across the board after being out over 15 months or so. We just came out on Cable VOD and online VOD, with TV Broadcast coming in late Spring 2012, national RedBox release, and we've been on DVD in over a dozen foreign countries with more coming.

Self-funding a project is risky, but self-funding a project that can't sell is even riskier, and most don't give that a thought. We all want to make our art, but we need to eat too. Make something targeted at a market you can sell in, and make it good enough to sell. Don't spend your life savings hoping to strike it rich. Anyone of us who reaches success is likely to stay in the 6-figure business, so keep that in mind. Know what other examples are out there in the market you're going for, and what they spent, and how they did. Shoot conservatively, not stupidly. Also, the more you can do yourself, the better off you are getting your foot in the door and getting started. The less fingers in the pie on the backend (if any) the better off you are because any profit that DOES come in, you want to keep that.

Next time I do a film, I look forward to getting some investment money but I'm still keeping it sub $100,000 for now, and I'll be paying people on the film but pushing as much money as I can to the production side, not the post-production or pre-production side where I can have a lot of muscle without the need to pay others. Marketing I specialize in now for others, so I can do a lot of that myself, but sometimes there's capital needed regardless not for people but for ads themselves. Knowing where/when to push that money is key, and I"m happy to be doing well in that regard.

It's not all a crapshoot, but it's not an exact science either. Bottom line no matter who's money you're spending, know your audience, know your end use, study the market, study your film, and if they don't match up...you're in trouble. Get it right while it's still words on a page, and you'll be better off then most of the yahoo's out there trying to give this a shot.

http://www.standingfirmmovie.com
http://www.facebook.com/standingfirm

http://www.twitter.com/kyleprohaska

Peace! :)

I need to stop bragging about this guy and other friends everywhere, and become like them. =P I might be more jealous that he's even younger than I am.
 
well so far we have not really any money out of pocket, because we used our camera phones, and our new mini tripod and cell phone mount for it only cost like $4 on ebay, so i guess so far we have made a small profit.
Im sure that will change when we get to making more short films

Seize the day each everyday
 
Well with short films, you're not likely to make much traditionally. Short films are more of a money hole then features sometimes, because the profit return is way lower...even if they cost way less.

Unless you can figure out a way to monetize them, shorts will always be just youtube uploads for many with a couple hundred views. If you can do enough shorts fast enough and get a popular Youtube channel going, that's an option, but few have the personality for that. Or if you make some REALLY good shorts all on a given topic, and sell them on a DVD as a set perhaps, that's an option.

A guy on DVXuser years ago make a film called FLIP very cheap and loaded it with so many bonus features it sorta became a DIY filmmaker tutorial. He sold that and made a profit as well.

Gotta open up your mind beyond what success stories you've seen and find a new way to make money, or do what someone else did but do it better, and do it for an audience you KNOW you can reach....don't make a short film for Youtube hoping someone from a popular blog notices you. Of course, that's all assuming you're spending too much on your shorts. if you keep them really really cheap and it doesn't hurt you financially, then go for it. :)
 
And what about that short film that was shot on a DVX100, sold a ton of copies. Made by Alex Ferrari. The name escapes me.

Total niche product that blew up and helped Alex get into a lot of different places.
 
Three projects I directed and produced have profited. Here's the catch, two of those have taken 6 years to do so! Anyway - approx. $5,000 in VOD payments, this month, plus a small territory deal. This is the first time I have recieved payment from download or VOD. I almost can't believe it! :D:D My other payments have come from territory sales, via distributors.
 
Kyle's got the "Family Approved" stamp on his film as well... which is a huge benefit in hitting christian homes that will only allow films with that stamp in them. Great targeting of your market. That market is starved for content in comparison to the rest of the market which is cluttered with all kinds of noise. It's one of the arenas I've thought about venturing into.

We've made a strong effort to avoid "indie film" language in our indie films, and will probably eventually produce something with less violence as well ;) So targeting that stamp could well make the leap for us from hobbyists who have gone through the process of learning the craft over the last 8 years to career filmmakers :) At least, that's my goal -- funding and distribution are the next parts of the puzzle to unlock.
 
Kyle, congrats on the success of your film!

I kid you not -- if my next feature doesn't pan-out to be what I want it to be, I'm switching to making Christian films!
 
I've made a couple of indie films, had them in the theaters for like two showings. Earned some money.

But whats up with this guy saying "dont expect anyone to fund your projects"? I mean, what is that?

Im currently working on an indie scifi-feature. I've managed to get nearly 7000$.
AND, I started a fundraiser last week: http://www.indiegogo.com/everywhen?a=369962

So, ehm, I'm confuzed.
Jarand
 
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