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Old 12-08-2003, 03:51 PM   #1
Matte
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COMPOSER NEEDED

Looking for a composer to do film score for a feautre indie film willing to work for free.

email Matt

tarantino65@hotmail.com
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Old Today   #1A
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Old 12-08-2003, 04:03 PM   #2
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Welcome Matte \/
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Old 12-09-2003, 04:12 AM   #3
BazTheHat
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Hi Matte.

I have been a composer for the last 7 years, and have been doing it professionally since April 2003. I can write in any style, and can even do foley / voice over's if you need them.

How long is your film, and do you know what style(s) you want for it? You can listen to samples of my work at http://www.ryerson-sound.com and, if you're interested, feel free to email me.

And yes, I can work for free
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Old 01-06-2004, 08:58 AM   #4
Stephen Kaminski
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Matte,

I am one of the composers for the Saturday morning cartoon "The Shaman King" on FOX TV, among other things. Please remember, most good composers won't work for free. I'd hate to see a filmaker ruin a good film with a bad, but "free", score. The music score can make or break a film.

I do not work for free but I am pretty reasonable. Check out my site at www.StephenKaminskiMusic.com for music clips, etc.

And are you in California or Canada? There are a few Winnipegs out there. I am in the NY area.

Stephen Kaminski
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Old 01-06-2004, 10:22 AM   #5
Hutch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Kaminski
...most good composers won't work for free.
Stephen Kaminski
Matte (and others...),

Check out my credentials and recent samples of my work at:

www.digitalsoundtracks.com

I have a great job that pays the bills, so I often compose just for the love of it! I have 30 years of experience and own a recording studio and production company.

Regards,

Hutch DeLoach
www digitalsoundtracks.com
www.pocketwatchproductions.com
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Old 01-07-2004, 08:04 AM   #6
Stephen Kaminski
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Hutch,

Sorry, I guess I should have said "Good composers SHOULDN'T work for free." Film scoring is a professional craft and a business. You get what you pay for. You live with what you get for free.

Stephen K.
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Old 01-07-2004, 09:44 AM   #7
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Hi Stephen,

I took no offense at your post. I would respectfully disagree with you though - and so would John Williams by the way. At the level that most people are at on this board, working for free is a matter of building relationships. In the long term that can be more lucrative than the limited dollars you might make from an indie filmmaker for a low budget project.

Case and point: I had a friend in college who was a film major. I met him because we both played in the college symphonic band together. He went looking for someone to score a student film he produced. All my friends wanted him to pay them. I, in turn, asked him how much he would charge me for the opportunity!

A few years later, he did a film starring well known actors Tippi Hedren and Troy Donahue. He called me and provided me an opportunity to score the film. The main theme won best theme at the Milan Italy Film Festival that year. And, it all started by doing something for free.

My basic position with indie filmmakers is - if your project makes money, I expect to receive a "share" of the profits. If it doesn't, then no harm done to anyone and we've all learned something from our experience and built new relationships for future projects.

By the way, as I mentioned earlier, I heard an interview with John Williams about a year or two ago. He was asked, "what do you recommend for musicians who aspire to score films?" He generally responded by saying to build relationships with filmmakers so that you can grow with their success. At the "indie" level, I don't think there could be any better advice. In fact, despite my paying projects, I recently offered to do the score for a junior high kid's student film. Although he never completed it, I would have gladly scored it.

While I respect your position (the same thing they told me to do in college) I have chosen to adopt a different strategy that has served me well. Sure, our work is worth pay. In fact, so is the work of the cast and crew on an indie. But free work can be an excellent "investment" for the potential future opportunity to work in larger budget projects.

Regards,

Hutch DeLoach

www.digitalsoundtracks.com
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Old 01-08-2004, 03:44 PM   #8
Stephen Kaminski
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Hutch, Matte, and all,

You're right on all aspects where developing a relationship with filmmakers is concerned. That's been my plan for the past twenty years.

I've done many student films, for free, and many of them have called on me for projects once they've graduated, for pay. But the film in question is a feature film, not a 15-minute project. And I'm afraid I draw the line and think that filmmakers should plan on at least some kind of music budget if they will put forth the effort to make a full feature. Sony doesn't give out cameras to filmmakers for free and then hope for back-end money later if the project goes somewhere. Composers have expenses, especially in doing a score for a feature film, even if it's an electronic score. Filmmakers need to understand what kind of time is involved, not to mention the cost of a production studio that will produce the score.

Besides, I think you'll agree that being a good composer doesn't make one a good film composer. It's a specialized craft all it's own. A budget for a good score should always be planned on from the beginning.


SK
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Old 01-12-2004, 11:02 PM   #9
inetbuff
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Sorry, I guess I should have said "Good composers SHOULDN'T work for free." Film scoring is a professional craft and a business. You get what you pay for. You live with what you get for free.

I disagree with the last bit. It suggests that professionals giving their time for free are not committed to the project. I think it is alright, and in fact I am doing it myself, for a non-professional to offer what they can afford, and what they have determined is a reasonable fee, perhaps pocket money for some, for a service. I don't think it is reasonable to expect people with indie films to pay the top rates. If someone offered me $50 to write them a letter I would write it gladly and commit myself to every word in it.
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Old 01-13-2004, 08:17 AM   #10
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Stephen,

It sounds like you are a good businessman and that will always be a great benefit to you. I don't disagree with you at a fundamental level, but I would simply add that, beyond a business and a craft, film scoring is also an art and we do our art out of passion and a love for it first. In my opinion, this is why so much free work is being done out there. Any person in his/her right mind would love to be paid for their efforts, but the artist does it first and foremost out of his/her passion for it.

By the way, I would gladly score a feature too, at no cost, if I thought the feature had promise. I guess part of it is that I write my best music when I'm writing with a purpose instead of just composing a random piece that has no immediate target. I'm am continually amazed to find that I rise above my skill level when a visual image begins to inspire a theme in me. It's a 'high' like none other I know.

Best wishes to you on your future projects! Great dialog here!

Regards,

Hutch
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Old 01-14-2004, 01:09 PM   #11
Stephen Kaminski
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Hutch,

Thanks as well for the great dialog. Judging from the hits it looks like we had an audience.

Passion for the music is always all-important, I agree. Some of my favorite scores have been for the student films I did for free. But I still think that a filmmaker should always plan on a music budget for a feature film.

Yes, it's an art. And we do it for the love of it. But if you owned an original Picasso, for the sake of the art, would you give it away? Should someone else expect you too?

Thanks again for the great dialog. Your site is pretty nice, too. Good luck with everything....

Stephen K.
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Old 01-14-2004, 10:06 PM   #12
Hutch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Kaminski
But if you owned an original Picasso, for the sake of the art, would you give it away? Should someone else expect you too?
I guess the place where we differ is that you call it "giving away" your work and I call it just one more "opportunity" to "invest" in the "possibilities" and to do something that I love with passion and heart.

The key word for me is "invest". I'm investing in myself and in someone else at the same time when I contribute to their project. Additionally, I receive the immediate gratification of doing good work and contributing to a good effort.

In your defense, no one can just go and spend all their time working for free. I'll give you that. But, like I said before, I have a job that pays my bills very nicely (and in fact provides me the capability to fund my own productions) so we're probably looking at this "question" from two very different perspectives.

By the way, would love to hear some of your work sometime...

Regards,

Hutch
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Old 01-16-2004, 09:43 AM   #13
BazTheHat
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There's been some great discussion going on here - I kinda feel a bit sorry for Matte though, having his thread stolen like this!

Seroiusly though, there is always a balance between our love and passion for our art, and keeping body and soul together. I personally would love to be in a position to work just for pleasure, but bills must be paid somewhere along the line. So, there's balance.

As for films making a music budget - how much of a budget can you get for music from a shoestring? :p There will always be a gradation of money available for any project, ranging from none to Hollywood figures (I don't think I can count that high, personally....) Likewise, there will always be a gradation of composers, who fit the necessary budgets nicely.

Interesting to see if people dis/agree or not (including any non-composers who are reading these posts!)

Take care all,

Barry
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Old 01-19-2004, 04:38 PM   #14
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Hey, we didn't steal his thread. We were just trying to provide his request with the attention that it deserves.
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Old 01-19-2004, 04:40 PM   #15
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Stephen,

Great website! Especially nice graphics and design.

Regards,

Hutch
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