Hey guys I'm curious on how you guys shoot conversation scenes? Do you guys shoot the scene repeatedly with different angles (180 degree rule)? How do you maintain the consistency of the conversation?
Conversation scenes.
- Thread starter charles827
- Start date
I shoot the entire scene from many different angles. Usually a
Master, a Close Up of each actor, an Over the Shoulder of each
actor and several inserts. Then depending on the scene I will
shoot a few dolly shots - maybe a move right and a move left, a
push in on each character - an overhead shot and maybe some
unusual angles.
So for me a typical conversation scene would be covered 12 to 20
times. Each time the actors must repeat all or part of the
conversation. This is what actors do. An actor needs to be able to
do the exact same scene many times and be consistent not only with
their dialogue bu all of their movements.
Master, a Close Up of each actor, an Over the Shoulder of each
actor and several inserts. Then depending on the scene I will
shoot a few dolly shots - maybe a move right and a move left, a
push in on each character - an overhead shot and maybe some
unusual angles.
So for me a typical conversation scene would be covered 12 to 20
times. Each time the actors must repeat all or part of the
conversation. This is what actors do. An actor needs to be able to
do the exact same scene many times and be consistent not only with
their dialogue bu all of their movements.
Exactly the same as Rik.
As for the "180-degree rule", that's always a factor. Just remember which character is on which side of the screen and never change it (unless you have a REALLY good reason).
As for the "180-degree rule", that's always a factor. Just remember which character is on which side of the screen and never change it (unless you have a REALLY good reason).
What directorik said.
But i want to stress the importance of inserts. They will save you in the editing room when things arent matching or lining up.
But i want to stress the importance of inserts. They will save you in the editing room when things arent matching or lining up.
What Rik said, and What Ernest said.
Shoot your basic coverage. Master, OTS both ways, closeup of each, etc... Think of some potential cutaways, and shoot those, THEN you can experiment, do moving shots, handheld, rack focus, whatever, just make sure you have what you need if that doesn't work.
I'm going to give the obvious "make sure that you capture great sound". Okay, now that that is out of the way...
Make sure that your characters/actors are speaking appropriately for the venue. If they are sitting at a kitchen table they will be speaking in a normal tone of voice. In a restaurant their voices will be raised a little. If they're in a loud club they will be practically shouting at each other. A pet peeve that really drives me crazy; the music in the "club" is supposed to be pounding - you can practically see the walls pumping and breathing - and the characters are five feet away from each other, speaking like they're having coffee in an office. From an audio post perspective if the actors raise their voices I can keep pumping the music during the scene and "carve a hole" with EQ and not have as much of a volume drop; the result will be more reality accurate and you will still hear the dialog clearly.
Please do a sound exercise - during preproduction go to real venues that approximate what you are shooting. Listen to how people speak in those places. If your talent comes with you that would be big as well. In fact, hold your meeting about the club scene in a real club and note how you all speak to each other. Record the conversations. Listen back a few days later or, even better, on the day of the shoot. It will help a lot.
Make sure that your characters/actors are speaking appropriately for the venue. If they are sitting at a kitchen table they will be speaking in a normal tone of voice. In a restaurant their voices will be raised a little. If they're in a loud club they will be practically shouting at each other. A pet peeve that really drives me crazy; the music in the "club" is supposed to be pounding - you can practically see the walls pumping and breathing - and the characters are five feet away from each other, speaking like they're having coffee in an office. From an audio post perspective if the actors raise their voices I can keep pumping the music during the scene and "carve a hole" with EQ and not have as much of a volume drop; the result will be more reality accurate and you will still hear the dialog clearly.
Please do a sound exercise - during preproduction go to real venues that approximate what you are shooting. Listen to how people speak in those places. If your talent comes with you that would be big as well. In fact, hold your meeting about the club scene in a real club and note how you all speak to each other. Record the conversations. Listen back a few days later or, even better, on the day of the shoot. It will help a lot.
I just made my first feature that is mostly conversation. While shooting it, I thought I was getting plenty of coverage. While editing it, there were so many times that I wished I had more. Especially cutaways/inserts.
I try to keep with the spirit of what Rik said. However, I normally work on a much more expedited schedule since I typically employ an all-volunteer army approach and have to keep things moving quicker than I'd like to keep participants happy and home on time. So I'll storyboard how I want the conversation to look ahead of time, and utilize only 4-6 ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY setups instead of 12-20. Master, two OTS, tight two shot, and two closeups. I usually differ from the boards on set but use them as a guide to make sure I shoot everything essential to convey the story of the conversation. But if there is a trick shot or unique angle or necessary insert or anything involving motion or tracking, it gets done first. And sometimes only one of the actor closeups gets shot if we're running behind, or the tight two shot gets cut, etc. This is compromise filmmaking and is an unfortunate reality of tight schedules.
Rik's approach is the correct one and results in the most usable footage and the most editing potential. Mine is a cheap imitation meant to mimic the same results.
Rik's approach is the correct one and results in the most usable footage and the most editing potential. Mine is a cheap imitation meant to mimic the same results.
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I may have misunderstood, but I think Rik meant 12-20 repetitions of the scene by the actors (including multiple takes), not 12-20 setups. I definitely don't do that many setups either!
Rik and Uranium are absolutely correct. I'll also echo the sentiment of coverage coverage coverage. Lack of cutaways caused me all sorts of problems editing Adam Funn and honestly, I'm not quite sure how we managed to put that thing together as well as we did.
Get the 6 basic shots, then shoot as much coverage and cutaways as you have time for. If you're just starting out, shoot at least three times more coverage than you think you'll need.
Get the 6 basic shots, then shoot as much coverage and cutaways as you have time for. If you're just starting out, shoot at least three times more coverage than you think you'll need.
I call even a change in focal length a different set upI may have misunderstood, but I think Rik meant 12-20 repetitions of the scene by the actors (including multiple takes), not 12-20 setups. I definitely don't do that many setups either!
(for the slate). So an OTS that then is a CU and then
is an insert I will call three set ups even though I
haven't moved the camera. But I will do more than 4
to 6 set ups even for a simple conversation between
two people.
Master
Full shot
OTS x 2
CU x 2
Dolly left
Dolly right
Push in x 2
Three inserts for each actor
That brings me to 16.
That's if they are sitting at a table. If they are moving
around the space I might do even more. I recently shot
a six page conversation where a woman is seducing a
man into committing a crime - very cat-and-mouse. We
did 33 separate set ups in seven hours.
Regarding charles827's question about maintaining the
consistency of the conversation, the actors needed to
repeat the scene (including takes) nearly 80 times.
Maintaining the consistency of the conversation can be
very difficult for actors. But it's their job to deliver the
same performance over and over.
This is key whether you are doing 33 setups/80 takes or 6 setups/8 takes. Actors need to not only bring it, but bring it the same exact way each take. One of the key difference between stage and screen acting.
Wow! I thought I was pretty thorough, but you truly are the king of coverage!
Call it paranoid. Too many times I have been in the editing
room and nearly stabbed myself in the eye with a pen because
I need just a little something to cover a wonky cut.
A really good example is that long scene I mentioned. It
was too long so I needed to cut it without losing the plot
information. Since the actors were moving around the room
that made cutting quite a challenge. Hard to make a cut from
the woman standing near the door to sitting on the bed.
But because I had plenty of coverage my editor found an OTS
of the man as the woman walked past him - couldn't see lips
moving. So we used it - reversed it so she was moving in the
right direction and it worked. If I hadn't gotten all kinds of
coverage we wouldn't have been able to make the cut we needed.
Beyond what has been mentioned, if you are mastering below your shooting resolution you can play around with cropping out a better shot without any loss in quality.
I shot 4k and mastered in 2k which gave me the luxury of reframing shots at my leasure. I don't know that I'd recomend it, but it beats the hell out of not having what you want.
I shot 4k and mastered in 2k which gave me the luxury of reframing shots at my leasure. I don't know that I'd recomend it, but it beats the hell out of not having what you want.
That's awesome!
I did something similar with a scene (maybe even with the same actor...?). Marcella had this fairly lengthy line of dialog she was supposed to say while climbing through a hatch in the floor. The location didn't actually have an opening in the floor so we used a variety of effects - including green-screen - to sell the bit. While shooting the green-screen element I forgot to have her say the line, but I had it from the location shoot.In editing, I moved the line up to when she turned her back to camera to step down through the hatch. Of course, there was no hatch there so she was just kneeling down, which didn't give enough time for the whole line. So I cut to a reaction shot of the second actor, then to the green-screen with Marcella descending. Because she was looking down I was able to place the last part of the line over it.
What about multiple cameras? If you're shooting digital, it's usually cheap enough to have a second or third camera on set.
However many we plan to use, I'll throw one more in the mix with a trusted friend/camera op getting an extra angle. If I plan two cameras, when there's space I'll stick him on the third. I'm really monitoring the two main cameras, but when it comes to edit I usually find that the third has gotten some cool stuff that I've never thought of that makes great extra coverage.
If you do the same set-ups with two camera (like both ots at the same time, one on each) it goes twice as fast and cuts together better since it's the exact same take.
However many we plan to use, I'll throw one more in the mix with a trusted friend/camera op getting an extra angle. If I plan two cameras, when there's space I'll stick him on the third. I'm really monitoring the two main cameras, but when it comes to edit I usually find that the third has gotten some cool stuff that I've never thought of that makes great extra coverage.
If you do the same set-ups with two camera (like both ots at the same time, one on each) it goes twice as fast and cuts together better since it's the exact same take.
I never use multiple cameras, ever.
1. Unless they are the exact same make and model of camera it's difficult to make the footage match up.
2. It's hard enough to light a scene to look good for one camera, much less trying to make it look good for two or more.
3. It makes it harder to find a spot for the boom operator where he isn't in the line of fire of one of the cameras, or casting a shadow that one of them picks up.
The only reasn to ever use multiple cameras is a back and forth conversational type scene with rapid banter between two people (particularly comedy) where timing of the interplay between the teo of them is critical (see sitcoms), or in situations where you are doing a "we only have one shot at this) stunt, explosion, effect, etc...
1. Unless they are the exact same make and model of camera it's difficult to make the footage match up.
2. It's hard enough to light a scene to look good for one camera, much less trying to make it look good for two or more.
3. It makes it harder to find a spot for the boom operator where he isn't in the line of fire of one of the cameras, or casting a shadow that one of them picks up.
The only reasn to ever use multiple cameras is a back and forth conversational type scene with rapid banter between two people (particularly comedy) where timing of the interplay between the teo of them is critical (see sitcoms), or in situations where you are doing a "we only have one shot at this) stunt, explosion, effect, etc...