Home

Go Back   IndieTalk - Indie Film Forum > The Biz > Hollywood

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-28-2011, 02:54 AM   #1
harmonica44
Basic Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Saskatchewan
Posts: 6,661
Is this poor writing in thrillers?

MINOR SPOILER FROM SUDDEN IMPACT


In a lot of thrillers the hero, or villain, will show up to intercept his counterpart. But they don't have any explanation as to how they knew, their counterparts would be. The best example is Sudden Impact, where they villains kidnap the woman and take her to an amusement park. They don't explain how Dirty Harry knew she was there or why they were going to bring her there. They left no trail of evidence that would lead him to know to go there.

Some movies even though they don't explain how they know, you can still think of a logical explanation. But some movies have nothing logical as to how they knew, and just have it happen. What do you think poor writing, or does it heighten the tension?
harmonica44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today   #1A
film guy
Basic Member
 
Posts: 17

 
Old 09-28-2011, 03:55 AM   #2
rayw
Basic Member
 
rayw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: About a thousand years from now
Posts: 6,621
Quit watching these thirty year old films.

The audience has grown considerably more sophisticated in the intervening DECADES!
You can't get away with that sort of rubbish anymore.

Model your work off of material maybe no older than about five or six years old.
http://www.the-numbers.com/market/Genres/Suspense.php

2010 http://www.the-numbers.com/market/2010/Suspense.php
2009 http://www.the-numbers.com/market/2009/Suspense.php
2008 http://www.the-numbers.com/market/2008/Suspense.php
2007 http://www.the-numbers.com/market/2007/Suspense.php
2006 http://www.the-numbers.com/market/2006/Suspense.php
rayw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2011, 07:34 AM   #3
ghostytoasty27
Basic Member
 
ghostytoasty27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 10
It may very well have nothing to do with the writing of the film at all, as it's a common practice in the film world for the studio to designate the length the film must be, and in some cases, if the film goes over that time length, the studio may step in themselves, and decide what will be cut from the film to shorten it.

I disagree that it was simply something you could get away with "back in the day" because their are numerous other films that suffer this discrepencies such as this.
ghostytoasty27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2011, 09:02 AM   #4
Wombat
Basic Member
 
Wombat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Pensacola, FL
Posts: 319
Quote:
Originally Posted by rayw View Post
Model your work off of material maybe no older than about five or six years old.
I agree, Hitchcock, Murnau, and Kubrick were all mediocre.
Wombat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2011, 09:21 AM   #5
rayw
Basic Member
 
rayw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: About a thousand years from now
Posts: 6,621
Ah, you two are couple of comedians.

Yeah, I guess that's why they're all selling so well at the cinema.
Folks still just can't get enough of them guys.
Sell out theaters.
Every one of 'em.


There's a reason why they're classics.
Things change.


Tell me, regarding story constructs, is there still a bunch of stage play theatrical exposition?
Has the pacing remained the same?
Is a single twist sufficient these days?
How do you maintain an engaging "WTH is going on?" interest throughout the story without losing the audience?


How about you two crows help Monica instead of spending effort griping at me.
rayw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2011, 09:32 AM   #6
JoshL
Basic Member
 
JoshL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 2,278
Did you, as a viewer, care? Did you think the movie was good or bad? When you saw it did you care how he got there or did you just want to see what happened when he did? Where was the meat of the story? There's a reason action movies rarely have people using the bathroom or sitting down for a quick lunch.

As an aside, Wombat, dig the new profile pic! Always been one of my favorite Louis Wain pictures (and has turned up on more album covers than any others!)
JoshL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2011, 10:09 AM   #7
Wombat
Basic Member
 
Wombat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Pensacola, FL
Posts: 319
Quote:
Originally Posted by rayw View Post
Yeah, I guess that's why they're all selling so well at the cinema.
Folks still just can't get enough of them guys.
Sell out theaters.
Every one of 'em.
You... do realize how absurd this point is, correct?

Quote:
There's a reason why they're classics.
Things change.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Quote:
Tell me, regarding story constructs, is there still a bunch of stage play theatrical exposition?
Has the pacing remained the same?
Is a single twist sufficient these days?
How do you maintain an engaging "WTH is going on?" interest throughout the story without losing the audience?
Yes, the film industry was completely stagnant until five or six years ago. Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire was the first film to feature actors talking!

Quote:
How about you two crows help Monica instead of spending effort griping at me.
You were on the right track with giving him advice to not think too hard about action movies from decades ago given that in general the faceless public has grown more sophisticated. But then you fumbled the ball when you made a statement that completely discounts Hitchcock, the undisputed master of the thriller, and that just don't go 'round these parts. Not while I'm around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshL View Post
As an aside, Wombat, dig the new profile pic! Always been one of my favorite Louis Wain pictures (and has turned up on more album covers than any others!)
The eyes. The eyes.

.

(Note: I haven't seen this movie in years.)

It's bad writing or editing, depending. Ol' Clint might've filmed a small scene that showed how he had knowledge of where they were and the editor left it on the floor, or it really was bad writing. As for whether or not it impedes my enjoyment of the film depends on how big the error is. If it's a critical error (anti-Chekhov's gun, for example) it would bother me because it would break the fragile suspension of belief I had built up.
Wombat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2011, 10:12 AM   #8
rayw
Basic Member
 
rayw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: About a thousand years from now
Posts: 6,621
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wombat View Post
... and that just don't go 'round these parts. Not while I'm around.
Just bored today and wanna pick strawman fights, eh?
Free country and all.

All that typing and STILLLLL! not a useful bit of info.
Energy well spent.


Quit complaining.
Start helping.
rayw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2011, 10:20 AM   #9
Wombat
Basic Member
 
Wombat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Pensacola, FL
Posts: 319
Quote:
Originally Posted by rayw View Post
Just bored today and wanna pick strawman fights, eh?
Every time I hear someone accuse someone else of a strawman and not specify exactly what they're referring to I just laugh and laugh.

Quote:
Quit complaining.
Start helping.
Criticism is helping, provided all parties involved are mature enough to discuss things like adults.

Speaking of helping, what do a bunch of statistical figures have to do with the point of this thread?
Wombat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2011, 10:27 AM   #10
rayw
Basic Member
 
rayw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: About a thousand years from now
Posts: 6,621
blah blah blah blah

you give what you got

blah blah blah


have a day
sorry we had to meet this way
C ya!
rayw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2011, 01:26 PM   #11
DeJager
Basic - Premiere Expired
 
DeJager's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 987
Quote:
Originally Posted by rayw View Post
Quit watching these thirty year old films.

The audience has grown considerably more sophisticated in the intervening DECADES!
You can't get away with that sort of rubbish anymore.

Model your work off of material maybe no older than about five or six years old.
http://www.the-numbers.com/market/Genres/Suspense.php

2010 http://www.the-numbers.com/market/2010/Suspense.php
2009 http://www.the-numbers.com/market/2009/Suspense.php
2008 http://www.the-numbers.com/market/2008/Suspense.php
2007 http://www.the-numbers.com/market/2007/Suspense.php
2006 http://www.the-numbers.com/market/2006/Suspense.php

I think this is HORRIBLE advice. If you are ONLY modeling your work after other material that is only 5-6 years old, you will be BEHIND the curve. This industry is all about trends. If you are modeling 5-6 year old stuff then you are more than likely going to have a film that is behind the trend. What is hot one minute may not be hot the next (that includes writing style, genres, etc). However, trends recycle so a 30 year old style may be big next year.

My last piece of advice is to do what you want. Make a movie how you want. Put your own style on it.
DeJager is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2011, 02:20 PM   #12
rayw
Basic Member
 
rayw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: About a thousand years from now
Posts: 6,621
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeJager View Post
I think this is HORRIBLE advice... However, trends recycle so a 30 year old style may be big next year.

My last piece of advice is to do what you want. Make a movie how you want. Put your own style on it.
Alrighty, Harmonica

There you go.
- One suggestion for ditching old, plot hole riddled works for more contemporary pieces.
- One suggestion that no matter how well you write your story the studio may force you to cut out parts that make it coherent.
- One suggestion that it doesn't really matter if it has holes just so long the story is good.
- One suggestion that... I'm not sure that contributor provided any actual suggestions.
- One suggestion that you should do your own thing + 30yo styles might be big next year.

rayw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-28-2011, 06:31 PM   #13
theredblur
Basic Member
 
theredblur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Los Angeles/ Memphis
Posts: 30
Horror Movie

Hey Man

I'm an independent film director, and I lost some some equipment but I have managed to use a standard camera. I created the Short Film "I See You" Here is a trailor for it. Let me know what you think.



-Adrian Dent
theredblur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2014, 03:55 AM   #14
harmonica44
Basic Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Saskatchewan
Posts: 6,661
Okay thanks, but there are movies in the past five or six years that do the same thing though. In The Dark Knight (2008), they never explain how the Joker, new that the bank he was robbing was owned by the mob. The movie just starts out with him already knowing that.

In The Chaser (2008), the cops bust into where the killer was hiding out, to arrest him, but they never explain how the cops found out where the killer's hide out is. All of a sudden they bust in, without any prior scenes of them finding out about the place.

So it seems that it's still being used in movies of today, hit movies, too.
harmonica44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2014, 04:58 PM   #15
MindStudios
Basic Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: United States
Posts: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by harmonica44 View Post
Okay thanks, but there are movies in the past five or six years that do the same thing though. In The Dark Knight (2008), they never explain how the Joker, new that the bank he was robbing was owned by the mob. The movie just starts out with him already knowing that.

In The Chaser (2008), the cops bust into where the killer was hiding out, to arrest him, but they never explain how the cops found out where the killer's hide out is. All of a sudden they bust in, without any prior scenes of them finding out about the place.

So it seems that it's still being used in movies of today, hit movies, too.
I think it's just a judgement call. If there's a reasonable way that the cops could figure out, then the filmmakers decided not to show it in lieu of showing other more interesting scenes. I haven't seen The Chaser, so I might be totally off. If a big part of the movie is figuring out where the killer is (and if it is clearly a big mystery - something nearly impossible to figure out) then I would say that it was a bad judgement call. Overall just keep in mind what the audience is thinking throughout your script and try to tune the script to those needs.

For the Dark Knight, we don't really need to know how the Joker found out that information. He is a sneaky guy and perfectly capable of bribing/tricking/killing his way to the information he wants. That's not the story we paid to see.
MindStudios is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.


©IndieTalk