Home Your Ad Here

Go Back   IndieTalk - Indie Film Forum > Tools of the Trade > Equipment

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-28-2017, 11:39 AM   #1
itarumaa
Basic Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Tampere, Finland
Posts: 168
audio recording advice

Hello,

I have a new project and we were testing today the equipment. I have Tascam dr-40 recorder and t.bone EM 9600 microphone. The mic was in the mic stand just above the actor.

But the problem is that with this equipment I still get noise. I did record at tascam level 50, it was around -30 to -18db. If I record with higher lever, then I get more noise. I was using the headphones when recording.

So what should I do? Is the weakest link the mic or the recorder or both?.

Thanks.

Edit: It seems that I have recorded stereo with mono microphone. I removed the extra audio track in Audacity and then I was able to boost the audio with 12db without any major issues.

Last edited by itarumaa; 10-28-2017 at 01:45 PM.
itarumaa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today   #1A
film guy
Basic Member
 
Posts: 17

 
Old 10-28-2017, 03:38 PM   #2
Alcove Audio
Basic - Premiere Expired
 
Alcove Audio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Fairfield County, CT
Posts: 7,446
Quote:
Originally Posted by itarumaa View Post
I have Tascam dr-40 recorder and t.bone EM 9600 microphone.
If you use budget gear you are going to get budget results. The cheaper the gear the more self-noise it will have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by itarumaa View Post
The mic was in the mic stand just above the actor.
If your mic placement is incorrect you are going to get poor sonic results.

Quote:
Originally Posted by itarumaa View Post
I did record at tascam level 50, it was around -30 to -18db.
If your gain-staging is wrong you are going to get more noise. With cheap gear the issue is more acute.

Quote:
Originally Posted by itarumaa View Post
I have recorded stereo with mono microphone
If you don't assign your recording tracks properly you are going to have sound issues.
Alcove Audio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2017, 04:16 PM   #3
itarumaa
Basic Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Tampere, Finland
Posts: 168
Yes, Budget gear has it's limitations, but now the main reason was that extra stereo track. Much better result after that one was removed. Thanks for advice.
itarumaa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2017, 01:07 AM   #4
Alcove Audio
Basic - Premiere Expired
 
Alcove Audio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Fairfield County, CT
Posts: 7,446
One of the best things you can do for your audio is to have someone doing nothing but audio.

Here is my standard advice:

Your project will only look as good as it sounds, because
"Sound is half of the experience"

If your film looks terrible but has great sound, people might just think it's your aesthetic.
If your film looks great and has bad sound, people will think you're an amateur.
Sound is the first indicator to the industry that you know what you're doing.

This is why a dedicated PSM/Boom-Op is essential. As an audio post guy solid production sound means I can be creative cutting the production dialog rather than mounting a rescue operation. If you're doing the audio post yourself it's even more important - less fixing, more mixing.


If you want to hear fantastic production sound check out "Being There" (1979), done by Jeff Wexler (PSM) and Don Coufal (Boom-Op).

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0078841/

Jeff Wexler, who has his own web forum for production sound professionals, even got an card in the opening credits of "Being There".
Alcove Audio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2017, 05:07 AM   #5
IronFilm
Basic Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 104
Was it really "just above" the actor? To me that means a few inches above their head, at most. To others that might mean six feet above!! (which is clearly wrong)
IronFilm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2017, 01:11 PM   #6
sfoster
IndieTalk Moderator
 
sfoster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 5,030
sometimes the noise you hear is something youre ignoring with your own ears.

is the fridge running? AC? a computer? a fan?
any of those will sound like "noise" if youre recording dialogue in the same room
Quote:
then I was able to boost the audio with 12db without any major issues.
fantastic if your problem was quiet dialogue. boost the db wont do anything for the fidelity of your recording though.
how are the noise levels now?
sfoster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2017, 02:44 AM   #7
itarumaa
Basic Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Tampere, Finland
Posts: 168
I recorded test footage in the middle of the forest, so no background noise like fridges etc. The mic was close to the actor, about 10cm from the actor above him. How ever I did continue testing and the t.bone mic doesn't seem to be good enough so I went ahead and bought a Rode NTG2 + dead cat and I'm going to use that one with the Tascam recorder (and record mono this time )
itarumaa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2017, 03:04 AM   #8
buscando
Basic Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: L.A.
Posts: 454
Some questions if you don't mind, Alcove.

Originally Posted by itarumaa
I did record at tascam level 50, it was around -30 to -18db.
AA: If your gain-staging is wrong you are going to get more noise. With cheap gear the issue is more acute.

Do you gain-stage correctly by adjusting mic distance from the actor & then adjusting recording levels?
Does it seem like -30 to -18db here is too high?

Originally Posted by itarumaa
I have recorded stereo with mono microphone
AA: If you don't assign your recording tracks properly you are going to have sound issues.

With a mono mic you should only record in mono?
buscando is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2017, 03:47 AM   #9
IronFilm
Basic Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Posts: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by itarumaa View Post
I recorded test footage in the middle of the forest, so no background noise like fridges etc. The mic was close to the actor, about 10cm from the actor above him. How ever I did continue testing and the t.bone mic doesn't seem to be good enough so I went ahead and bought a Rode NTG2 + dead cat and I'm going to use that one with the Tascam recorder (and record mono this time )
Go for an Aputure Deity kit instead, not that much more expensive and much better than a NTG2.

http://ironfilm.co.nz/aputure-is-shi...-rode-ntg3-is/

(I have both btw)

t.bone is a house brand for the store, and their quality can be a bit hit and miss, when I look up that mic:
https://www.thomann.de/gb/the_tbone_em_9600.htm

Well, I am not surprised if it sounds bad!
IronFilm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2017, 02:17 PM   #10
Alcove Audio
Basic - Premiere Expired
 
Alcove Audio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Fairfield County, CT
Posts: 7,446
Quote:
Originally Posted by buscando View Post
Some questions if you don't mind, Alcove.

Originally Posted by itarumaa
I did record at tascam level 50, it was around -30 to -18db.
AA: If your gain-staging is wrong you are going to get more noise. With cheap gear the issue is more acute.

Do you gain-stage correctly by adjusting mic distance from the actor & then adjusting recording levels?
Does it seem like -30 to -18db here is too high?
Gain-staging is maximizing the signal strength of your gear. It has nothing to do with the mic placement. The pre-amp and mix levels are determined through experimentation and experience.


Quote:
Originally Posted by buscando View Post
Originally Posted by itarumaa
I have recorded stereo with mono microphone
AA: If you don't assign your recording tracks properly you are going to have sound issues.

With a mono mic you should only record in mono?
Mono mic, one track. Stereo mics can create phasing issues. Some PSMs will record a mono mic to two (2) tracks, one of the tracks set at a lower level as protection against transients.


Proper mic placement is above and slightly in front of the talent, aimed at the notch at the base of the throat.

You should check out "The Location Sound Bible" by Ric Viers. Solid basics about production sound.

https://www.amazon.com/Location-Soun.../dp/1615931201

Alcove Audio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2017, 02:28 PM   #11
buscando
Basic Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: L.A.
Posts: 454
Cool, thanks Alcove!
buscando is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:50 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.


©IndieTalk