Best way to record audio?

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projectaero

Hey guys, just wanting to know what these days is the best way to record audio when on the set.

I read that they used to use DAT machines, but is there something newer which is recommended?
 
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Mrd... I m learning a lot in this whole post. It seems pretty basic you might say but I'm kind of a rookie concerning sound recording. I usually work with a great sound guy, but for my next shot I wanna do it by my self, just to experiment, so thank you all.

Cheers.

btw, my first post, great great site. Is nothing less than Steven Ashcer or Gregory Goodell books in terms of learning. Thank you.
 
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projectaero said:
Hey guys, just wanting to know what these days is the best way to record audio when on the set.

I read that they used to use DAT machines, but is there something newer which is recommended?
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If you're shooting on HD, the camera itself is usually very good for recording. But the key to getting good sound is to have a good external mic, preferably run through a mixer. that way you can control the levels better. Your sound guy could wear a portable belt pack with the mixer and headset. run any number of mics into the mixer, and then one xlr cable into the camera. For film, I see sound rigs that record directly onto DVD. Seems pretty efficient to me.
 
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Unless you are talking about very high-end cameras the audio implementation is no better than SD cameras. I'm not a "visuals" guy, but I can read specs just like anyone else. Even HD cameras costing $10k and more use MPEG1 compressed audio formats and run at only 16bit. The primary concern of most HD camera manufacturers is picture quality, so they are more than willing to sacrifice audio quality in an effort to guarantee the desired visual features at a given price point. Let's face it, "high definition" quality two channel digital audio recorders (24bit/96kHz) cost upwards of $2k and quality mixers start at about $1.5k. That adds $3.5k to the cost of the camera.
 
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i couldnt agree more with Alcove Audio....cameras are designed for picture...and even high end...like the Panavision Genisis which we use on the show i am on now...Royal Pains...no one would ever think to use onboard audio from...we dont even send the camera a feed.

in my opinion, camera manufacturers should not even add a sound input to their cameras at the high end...they dont know what they are doing and it really has no use or real practicality to even want to use it. sound should be recorded on its own where it can be monitored by a mixer and in todays fast paced TV and Film production...you will need to multitack and iso tracks along with mixed tracks for dailies. many a bad take is still there in the iso's and can be just fine.

if i have a scene with eight actors..all wired because there is no way to boom it...and they have quick dialoge cues and are all over the place...there is only so much a person can do...so i Isolate everyone on their own track on my 824, so i know i have all the dialogue and then give as best a mix i can to my 2track backup deck for dailies, knowing post will have to make the mix later from the iso's.

this just cant be done with audio in cameras.

i know this is probably more than most people think they will need for their small Indy Film...but to me...it doesnt matter the size of the film...its what the scene calls for and even if shooting with a small HD camera...you still need to right gear to get good sound that will set your film apart...a great shot with crappy sound is just that...crap...it will kill your picture...but something shot on a small HD Camera that looks pretty good with GOOD sound...will make it watchable and not take you away from the story and image.

there are plenty of Sound People out there trying to get a start...and you should look for someone to work on your films...you may find someone with some new gear they are wanting to try out on a smaller film before they take it on something bigger too...

i still do very small films to help people out all the time...there are many out there willing to help people out.
 
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I've only done a few very short films, all using the onboard mic. I know that's a bad idea, and you can really tell in my previous work. That being said...

I've been researching alot about audio lately because it's only recently occured to me just how important it really is. I havn't seen this done anywhere yet, but I had been planning on using a completely separate mic setup, with a clapper, and use the on-cam audio to sync the stand alone audio. It's been a while since i've used AE, but I seem to remember there is an audio track with a levels display that should have a pretty noticeable peak when the clapper is snapped. Just line up the peaks, drop out the levels on the on-cam audio, and you're done. Is this a decent idea?

Also, I've seen parabolic mic's that are highly directional, could they be used to get good audio when the actor's cant be mic'd with a boom or wireless? I hear they can pick up bad noises in the path behind the actor, but everything has it's limitations.

Thoughts?
 
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No matter how you capture the sound, whether it's with a separate recorder or going direct to camera there are two critical pieces of the puzzle:

1. Get the mic as close to the talent as possible. Typically this means with 18' or so. The closer the better.

2. ALWAYS monitor the sound with headphones. Trying to capture sound without monitoring is like trying to frame the shot without a viewfinder. Just pointing the mic towards the talent and using the meters is not enough. It would be like pointing camera at the subject, adjusting the focus and exposure to what you think it right, but having no viewfinder to verify. Sure, you'll get a picture, but how good will it be? It's the same with sound, you'll record something, but how good will it be?
 
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drewsmith007 said:
I had been planning on using a completely separate mic setup, with a clapper, and use the on-cam audio to sync the stand alone audio. It's been a while since i've used AE, but I seem to remember there is an audio track with a levels display that should have a pretty noticeable peak when the clapper is snapped. Just line up the peaks, drop out the levels on the on-cam audio, and you're done. Is this a decent idea?
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That'll work just fine. Just remember to keep detailed video/audio logs and to verbally announce each take so it's faster to match which audio take goes with which video take.

drewsmith007 said:
Also, I've seen parabolic mic's that are highly directional, could they be used to get good audio when the actor's cant be mic'd with a boom or wireless? I hear they can pick up bad noises in the path behind the actor, but everything has it's limitations.
Click to expand...

Parabolics - besides being very expensive - are very hard to handle and usually used for static installations. BTW, a parabolic dish is just that, a dish; you still have to purchase a mic to go with it.
 
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Alcove Audio said:
Unless you are talking about very high-end cameras the audio implementation is no better than SD cameras. I'm not a "visuals" guy, but I can read specs just like anyone else. Even HD cameras costing $10k and more use MPEG1 compressed audio formats and run at only 16bit. The primary concern of most HD camera manufacturers is picture quality, so they are more than willing to sacrifice audio quality in an effort to guarantee the desired visual features at a given price point. Let's face it, "high definition" quality two channel digital audio recorders (24bit/96kHz) cost upwards of $2k and quality mixers start at about $1.5k. That adds $3.5k to the cost of the camera.
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As of your post I had owned 2 feild recorders that operate at those specs...and one even has 4 onboard mics for 4 channel sound...and both under $400
And syncing isnt a problem with the right editing software...just put the audio track on with the one from the camera and it is automatic...a cheap Magix program does this trick even.
 
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cmnervegna said:
Do you think it will be fine have a shotgun mic plugged in into a zoom H4n recorder. And maybe a wind cover over the mic. Will that be fine for recording?
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It wouldnt be my first choice...but it depends on what you are shooting...many mics come with a worthless foam wind cover...what you need is to make a DeadCat...and I say make because it costed me $.50 in materials literally and 5 minutes of sewing...or you can order one for $50.

Shotgun mics are margial at best...the stuff you do shoot...you end up redoing in a studio.

The Zoom H4 has the built in mics...preamps (So you dont need a mixer) and outputs so you can go direct to a camera if you want...but since most cameras...software...and playback devices do 16/44.1 sound...if you like that 24/96 detail you are going to have to dither down anyway.
 
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darrin_h2000 said:
Shotgun mics are margial at best...the stuff you do shoot...you end up redoing in a studio.
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You shouldn't make such sweeping statements

Shotgun mics work great - when used properly, and it takes a lot of knowledge and technique to swing a boom properly. And most directors would prefer to avoid doing ADR as the on-set dialog generally has more emotion/passion, not to mention the fact that doing ADR can be very expensive. Recent examples of a films dialog being almost entirely production sound are "The Hurt Locker" and "Inglourious Basterds". And most of the films from the 30's and 40's and even a very large percentage from the 50's and 60's were almost entirely production sound.


darrin_h2000 said:
playback devices do 16/44.1 sound
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Video products are 16bit/48kHz - that's DVD standard.

darrin_h2000 said:
...if you like that 24/96 detail you are going to have to dither down anyway.
Click to expand...

But you still have the extra headroom and fewer processing artifacts during the editing process.
 
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darrin_h2000 obviously hasn't seen The Hurt Locker

Or Inception...

OR Dark Knight...

He also apparently thinks good microphones cost 30,000$: http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?t=25423

I don't get it.

The best directors in Hollywood don't like ADR and try to avoid it at all costs.

I saw Tarantino re-light a shot from scratch because the boom op said he didn't have full range.
 
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