$800.00 to spend on DSLR Camera for Docs

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Bruno858

Hello all,

My GF got me a Canon Vixia HF S21 2 years ago for my birthday. Without knowing anything about photography/cinematography (still don't), I quickly learned that I wouldn't be able to get the kinds of depth of field shots that I really liked which was frustrating. I just sold it on ebay and got $800.00 for it.

So I've got $800 bucks to spend on a DSLR Camera and would like to know your thoughts.

Initially I will be just shooting random video and interviews to learn how to use it and become familiar with it. I'm starting from scratch with virtually no knowledge of photography, so I'm allright with an entry/mid level camera. In the longer term, my goal is to make some short docs.

Im just generally looking at the T4i, 60D and the Nikon 5200. I realize that I'll have to deal with audio later on, so for now I'd just be happy to get a good camera with a lens that will get me started on those shots I like.

Suggestions?

What do you think of this:
http://www.amazon.com/Canon-Rebel-18-0-Digital-18-55mm/dp/B00894YWD0 with the 18-55 lens
 
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While not a DSLR (because it's mirrorless) I've been really happy with my Sony NEX 5N. It's an older model now, so you ought to be able to find one well under $800. I think I paid about $500 for it, brand new, when I got it last year. That would leave you with some extra cash to get other accessories.

The only real drawback is it doesn't have a mic jack, but recording dual sound is pretty common with DSLR shooting anyway. There are decent external recorders that can be had for about $100. I just picked up a tascam DR07 for $100 a couple weeks ago. While it lacks XLR inputs, it does have a stereo mic/line in along with its built in mics, and I've used it happily with the Beachtek adapter I already had from my previous filmmaking endeavors.

The great thing about the NEX is that it shares a similar distance from the mount to the sensor that micro 4:3 cameras have, so there are lots of lens adapter choices, most of which can be had for $20 or less, but unlike the micro 4:3 cameras, it's got a full blown APS-C sensor. (Essentially it's the Super35 frame, size is off by a couple mm, which is negligible)

It handles low light quite well (not that I recommend anyone try shooting movies in the dark), it has enough manual control to get a nice gradable image... it shoots full 1080p at 24fps and can even do 1080p60, so if you wanted to shoot stuff for slow motion, it'll handle that easily.

This little camera has basically the same sensor as the much more expensive Sony FS100, and it shares the same e-mount, so there are plenty of lens options, and as I mentioned there are a lot of adapters available to make use of pretty much any lens regardless of it's mounting requirements.

For still photo it's also got a lot of really nice features.. RAW, obviously.. panoramic sweep, auto bracketing (newest firmware makes this feature even more useful), just to name a couple..


Here's some sample footage comparing NEX5n, FS100 and VG20:
http://vimeo.com/28731943

to my eye, there's not a whole lot of difference in those images between the ~$500 5n and the ~$4000 FS100. Granted, the FS has a lot more manual controls of a LOT of things, but the 5n certainly has enough to shoot a high quality short or feature IMHO.


Sample footage NEX5n vs Panasonic GH2 (lowlight tests):
http://vimeo.com/28529236

The panasonic looks a little more pleasing to the eye, but if I were shooting these scenes I would probably stop down the nex a bit.. also there is quite a bit more information in the shadow areas on the sony footage, so I don't know how 'fair' this test is per se..


Quick test of NEX5n vs FS100 vs T2i:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1vjBeBE6co


Finally, a short doc that Phillip Bloom shot on the NEX 5N:
http://vimeo.com/31064478
 
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Bruno - if the GH2 was still available, I would recommend it. But Panasonic discontinued it when the GH3 came out. The next best choice in your price range is the $818 (w lens) D5200, because it resists moiré almost as well as the GH2.

I have shot with T2i, T4i and NEX, and the Canons and Sonys all have moire problems (except the $3000+ 5D Mark III) and I would avoid them.

Good luck with your decision!

Bill
 
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Of the cameras listed, I would go with the D5200. Since you aren't married to any particular lens mount, the Nikon is a solid choice. A buddy of mine just got the D3200 and is in LOVE with it. He originally planned to get the T3i, but changed his mind once he got his hands on the cameras in the store. Nikkor lenses are also fairly solid in the lower price range, and quite good in the higher prices.
 
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Bruno858 said:
As I said in the OP, I'm going to worry about audio later on when I have my head wrapped around projects I'd like to do.
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This is a mistake. It takes a while to learn the equipment, the techniques and the skills involved. On location is a very bad place to find out that you have audio issues of any kind, especially for documentary work; you get no second chances. At least with narrative projects you have the option of ADR, even if it's not the best option.
 
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Lucky Hardwood said:
Of the cameras listed, I would go with the D5200. Since you aren't married to any particular lens mount, the Nikon is a solid choice. A buddy of mine just got the D3200 and is in LOVE with it. He originally planned to get the T3i, but changed his mind once he got his hands on the cameras in the store. Nikkor lenses are also fairly solid in the lower price range, and quite good in the higher prices.
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brunerww said:
Bruno - if the GH2 was still available, I would recommend it. But Panasonic discontinued it when the GH3 came out. The next best choice in your price range is the $818 (w lens) D5200, because it resists moiré almost as well as the GH2.

I have shot with T2i, T4i and NEX, and the Canons and Sonys all have moire problems (except the $3000+ 5D Mark III) and I would avoid them.

Good luck with your decision!

Bill
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I'm leaning towards the D5200. All the low light shorts I've seen have been pretty impressive. It will take some time for me to learn what I'm doing with this camera. For a first lens, with Video in mind....should I stick with the 18-55 or just buy the body only and get another lens??
 
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Alcove Audio said:
This is a mistake. It takes a while to learn the equipment, the techniques and the skills involved. On location is a very bad place to find out that you have audio issues of any kind, especially for documentary work; you get no second chances. At least with narrative projects you have the option of ADR, even if it's not the best option.
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Thanks Alcove, I appreciate the concern. Audio is definetly paramount to get locked down before your on set. Everything I've read and interviews I've watched suggest that if your audio is lacking, your truly don't have $%^& for footage. Especially on DSLRs. This will be my #1 priority.

I still need to do a lot of learning but I want to ask, since the onboard mic isn't an option, and I won't really have a sound guy with a boom to practice with, should I even bother getting an external shotgun mic or no. I should probably just wait and get the setup I need....which is.....????
 
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Tip 1: Buy the cheapest one you can get. (Probably for around 400)

Tip 2: Invest in a better lens than the one it will come with.

Tip 3: Make some more money for more equipment.
 
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Actually now it sounds like I should be getting a 50 mm prime lens instead of an 18 – 55 zoom lens. This will allow me to play with the aperture for videos where I want to emphasize the depth of field. The only reason I would be using an 18 to 55 zoom lens is to practice the basics.

Thoughts?
 
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brunerww said:
Bruno - if the GH2 was still available, I would recommend it. But Panasonic discontinued it when the GH3 came out. The next best choice in your price range is the $818 (w lens) D5200, because it resists moiré almost as well as the GH2.

I have shot with T2i, T4i and NEX, and the Canons and Sonys all have moire problems (except the $3000+ 5D Mark III) and I would avoid them.

Good luck with your decision!

Bill
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Glad I got my GH2 when I did, just in the nick of time!
 
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Bruno858 said:
I still need to do a lot of learning but I want to ask, since the onboard mic isn't an option, and I won't really have a sound guy with a boom to practice with, should I even bother getting an external shotgun mic or no. I should probably just wait and get the setup I need....which is.....????
Click to expand...

Why won't you have someone to handle the audio for you? Someone who is truly qualified to run production sound and swing a boom doesn't need to practice with you, they already know what to do and already have the right gear.

The type of sound gear you should get will depend very specifically upon what type of work you will be doing. If you're doing sit-down interviews lavs would be a good choice, and the would not have to be wireless since no one is moving around. And yes, it's okay for the audience to see the lav. If you are walking around while interviewing then wireless lavs are called for. For "man-on-the-street" interviews a handheld mic is just fine. Again, it's okay for the audience to see the mic. If you are exclusively shooting picture (no interviews) and will have voice-over then a stereo mic to capture the ambient atmosphere is very nice to have. If you are doing run & gun then a shotgun on a boom is really the correct choice.

Then you need a recorder - and a mixer is VERY nice thing to have.

Once you have your budget and know exactly what is required I can make some suggestions for what equipment to look at.
 
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A shallow depth of field can be great for interviews, so that you can draw the subject out from a distracting background. But for the on-the-go type of footage that you'll end up shooting a lot of, you'll want as wide a depth of field as possible. You'll also really appreciate being able to change your focal length without changing lenses. Also, you're gonna want the ability to go wide angle.

If forced to choose just one lens, for documentary work, I'd take the 18-55mm, hands down, no question about it. Maybe pick up a 50mm or 100mm prime for interviews.

Since I'm not in the market for a camera, nor am I a real tech-head, I haven't kept up on recent developments, so I can't comment much on newer cameras. For what it's worth, though, I will say that I've been really happy with my T2i. I see that you're in San Diego, though -- overheating could be an issue. I believe the GH2 is better in this respect? You should definitely take overheating into consideration.
 
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