How much to do these two scenes?

Aspiring Mogul · Nov 6, 2014

My aspiring DP suggested going to a certain sound stage - I don't remember his buzzword - and filming it properly, just as you would have said. He works in the business and is not the sort to go guerrilla style. But he knows who I am, and he's anxious to get in the new year, after our commitments have finished.

I see what you mean about getting the cast and crew together. But, if you do it for me, how do I get that experience? It's you who's doing it.

Jack Lynt · Nov 7, 2014

directorik said:
Here's one option: for a recreation of that ST:TNG scene I could provide the
cast and crew for nothing but a nice meal. You pay for the studio and a little
something for equipment rental. We shoot it like we're making a real movie
so you can get the feel of what it takes to put together a 30 second scene.

Oh man, Rik's offer there blows me away. I think that would be a totally cool learning experience for you. If it were I, and I lived in California, I think I'd jump at the chance to watch pros like Rik and his team at work; it would certainly be an incredible learning experience for me, anyway.

Don't get me wrong. I don't mean to step into the debate over shooting your cheaper way, Trueindie, versus Rik's way. I think your way is also awesome. And of course I think your point of view is just as valid and has its own merits just as Rik's and APE's do. And you really knock me out with your generosity with A.M. in this thread, as well. God bless you for taking the time to show him, and us, how you made that short, with the After Effects tutorial to boot, as well as sharing your outlook on indie filmmaking.

In fact, though I'm just a bystander, thank all of you: Rik, Trueindie, IDOM, APE, et al for being so generous with your help and advice for A.M. --which is also great for those of who watch.

But yeah...are you sure you want to pass Rik up on that offer?

Aspiring Mogul said:
I see what you mean about getting the cast and crew together. But, if you do it for me, how do I get that experience? It's you who's doing it.

Oh. Hmmm. I think I see what you mean. Still. Something to think about, especially if Rik were willing to share with you some of his producing process, not only the execution of the shoot. If Rik is a veteran producer, I'm sure he has much to teach an aspiring one.

Aspiring Mogul · Nov 7, 2014

Hmm ...

I think I'm missing the forest for the proverbial trees.

OK, I've done a series bible, and I've got a pilot for the web series as well as about 80% of an episode. I can more work, but a point in time comes when an aspiring mogul just wants to throw caution to the winds and just film SOMETHING. Rik said to me, not too long ago, that, when the time comes, I'll know it.

I think the time is coming.

I think what I have been planning to do are enhanced table reads. That is, instead of people just reading at a table, perhaps go a little upscale and put up a green screen or a white screen and some props. This way, once I get into group dynamics, I can go back and work furthermore on my precious sci-fi franchise. But the thing is to get into the actual filming, one way or the other.

Richy, I'm thinking of taking Rik up on his offer, but I of course don't want to take advantage of anyone.

AudioPostExpert · Nov 7, 2014

trueindie said:
My handle might as well be "SpielbergWannabe" or "OliverStoneWannabe" because that's what I am in my head. So what does that mean? I have to start at Spielberg level? I can't start at the bottom?

That's plainly ridiculous, as you well know (!), because nobody starts at the Spielberg level, not even Spielberg himself! Starting at the bottom is certainly one route but the bottom of what exactly, the bottom of amateur filmmaking or the bottom of professional filmmaking? The problem with starting at the bottom of professional filmmaking is that it's more expensive than starting at the bottom of amateur filmmaking but the problem with starting at the bottom of amateur filmmaking is that the progression beyond the bottom of amateur filmmaking is to become a better amateur filmmaker, NOT a professional filmmaker! Case in point ...

trueindie said:
If I make a $25,000 movie, what do I care about an audience beyond $25,000?

The answer is "nothing at all", provided of course that being a talented/skilled amateur filmmaker is your ultimate goal! However, the OP's username AND his stated ultimate goal is not to become a talented amateur who is a "Spielberg Wannabe" but a commercially successful professional. Furthermore, in this particular case (a single short scene), the cost of starting at the bottom of professional filmmaking is more expensive than starting at the bottom of amateur filmmaking but not prohibitively so. Directorik has outlined a way to start at the bottom of professional filmmaking for under $500.

Aspiring Mogul said:
I see what you mean about getting the cast and crew together. But, if you do it for me, how do I get that experience? It's you who's doing it.

Of course, the experience of actually doing it yourself is a necessity. However, experience isn't the only necessity nor is it a particularly wise first step! Starting with experience means effectively relying on trial and error, which is maybe appropriate for an amateur/hobbyist but not so much for an aspiring professional/mogul, unless you have almost unlimited time and financial resources. If you can bypass some of the cost (time and money) of learning through trial and error alone, by watching first hand how an experienced practitioner goes about putting together and managing a professional cast and crew, why on earth wouldn't you? IMO, Directorik's offer is extremely generous and you'd be a fool to decline it! You're obviously not going to learn everything you need to know just by watching someone else. You're going to have to gain experience and develop your own style/way of doing things which is appropriate for you and your goals but as a first step, if you decline Directorik's offer, the most obvious implication is that this has all just been "talk" and you're not really serious about becoming a professional (let alone a mogul)!

G

ItDonnedOnMe · Nov 7, 2014

Aspiring Mogul said:
I of course don't want to take advantage of anyone.

I hate to say it but this does not bode well for your future as a producer... :lol:

Aspiring Mogul · Nov 7, 2014

ItDonnedOnMe said:
I hate to say it but this does not bode well for your future as a producer...

Never look a gift horse in the mouth, and, I assure you, a good lawyer can turn the tables on the free-loader. The legal issues have to be clarified before anything happens - maybe that's why lawyers are so hated.

directorik · Nov 7, 2014

The offer isn't executed in a vacuum. It does not mean the producer
arrives on set at the call time and the entire cast and crew are
assembled and working. The offer is a teaching offer. And it's ONLY
for this 30 second, 3 page scene.

We go through how to set up auditions. We won't need to do it for
this scene but learning the how and where is valuable.
We go through how to find and hire crew. We won't need to do it for
this scene but learning the how and where is valuable.
We then go through how to find the right studio looking at the various
types available, the costs, the minimums.
We discuss the needs of the shoot with the director and DP.
We put together a line item budget; answering in detail questions
about what each line item is.
We put together the needed paperwork. It might be advantageous to
use SAG-AFTRA actors for the experience of contacting and working
with the guild. Not essential for this project but something to go over
at the very least.

So the “mogul” is not just a passive bystander. This is a “film school”
in a few days.

Now that I think of it doing this for free may not be a wise move on
my part. But the offer was made and still stands. I understand the
reluctance from a lawyer; I'm sure there isn't a lawyer on earth who
would help a wannabe lawyer in this way so it must be strange and
confusing to hear that we creative people are so generous with our
time and experience. What I find strange and confusing is the
reluctance to accept help. All my life in this business I have offered
to help others and others have offered to help me. I learned my
craft that way. I give back to this day. We creatives are a strange
and unusual bunch aren't we?

Aspiring Mogul · Nov 7, 2014

directorik said:
The offer isn't executed in a vacuum. It does not mean the producer
arrives on set at the call time and the entire cast and crew are
assembled and working. The offer is a teaching offer. And it's ONLY
for this 30 second, 3 page scene.

Ah, I see.

We go through how to set up auditions. We won't need to do it for
this scene but learning the how and where is valuable.
We go through how to find and hire crew. We won't need to do it for
this scene but learning the how and where is valuable.
We then go through how to find the right studio looking at the various
types available, the costs, the minimums.
We discuss the needs of the shoot with the director and DP.
We put together a line item budget; answering in detail questions
about what each line item is.
We put together the needed paperwork. It might be advantageous to
use SAG-AFTRA actors for the experience of contacting and working
with the guild. Not essential for this project but something to go over
at the very least.

So the “mogul” is not just a passive bystander. This is a “film school”
in a few days.

Ah, now I understand. I may be able to drop by for a day, but I can't do anything substantial until later in the new year - I have many, many commitments.

That said, what about the table reads I mentioned? I think that I still need to go through that creative process of acting out scenes, then going rewriting the scenes. And, for what it's worth, I also think a conference should be held on the series bible. In my work, we often hold meetings and mini-conferences.

Now that I think of it doing this for free may not be a wise move on
my part.

You're NOT doing it for free - you asked for a meal, and I've offered a small stipend on top of that. So that's acceptable consideration, and there can now be no misunderstandings.

But the offer was made and still stands. I understand the
reluctance from a lawyer; I'm sure there isn't a lawyer on earth who
would help a wannabe lawyer in this way so it must be strange and
confusing to hear that we creative people are so generous with our
time and experience. What I find strange and confusing is the
reluctance to accept help. All my life in this business I have offered
to help others and others have offered to help me. I learned my
craft that way. I give back to this day.

OK, fair enough. But these things have to be clarified in writing. How can you begrudge anyone, lawyer or otherwise, for wanting clarification??? Like I said, if you don't believe me, ask an entertainment lawyer.

We creatives are a strange
and unusual bunch aren't we?

Yes and no - are you stranger than mentally-ill people? I've dealt with them, and they're far more stange and unusual.

mlesemann · Nov 7, 2014

And, for what it's worth, I also think a conference should be held on the series bible. In my work, we often hold meetings and mini-conferences.

If you were shooting the entire series, sure.
For shooting a 30 second scene - definite overkill.

You're over-analyzing this. Just do it.

Sweetie · Nov 7, 2014

For shooting a 30 second scene - definite overkill.

You're over-analyzing this. Just do it.

As what mlesemann says, it's overkill. While I thought you had done a production or two earlier on, from what this thread says, you need some (I'll take that at face value). Excessive meetings, conferences, technical location scouts, backup plans and so on are massive overkill. Think of it like this: Assembling a super team of the best 5 lawyers to fight a simple parking ticket.

See a good deal when there's a good deal. Take up the offer. Learn from the experience and get the most out of it.

Producers often get screwed due to their own ignorance. The best way is to learn as much as you can yourself. Some of the best way to learn is from experience.

ItDonnedOnMe · Nov 7, 2014

Aspiring Mogul said:
The legal issues have to be clarified before anything happens - maybe that's why lawyers are so hated.

To a man with a hammer, everything looks like a nail - and even when it actually is a nail sometimes it turns out that what you're carrying is a sledgehammer and even the nails are being ruined.

There's a time and place for everything. There are certainly times where it's absolutely critical to clarify the legal issues before proceeding - but there's plenty of other times where that's simply a barrier to actually making any real progress. This feels like one of those situations to me - you've got a low-risk opportunity in front of you which has significant potential benefits in terms of moving you from the realm of the theoretical into real, practical experience. A few days of real production experience will probably teach you more than another six months of research, so if you're serious about making progress you should be jumping at the opportunity - not complicating the situation more than necessary.

Aspiring Mogul · Nov 7, 2014

mlesemann said:
If you were shooting the entire series, sure.
For shooting a 30 second scene - definite overkill.

You're over-analyzing this. Just do it.

Hi Mieseman,

Yes, the conferences etc would be for the series as a whole.

As for over-analyzing, well, I scored greater than 99.9 percentile in my analytical abilities, so I tend to do that.

Aspiring Mogul · Nov 9, 2014

directorik said:
The offer isn't executed in a vacuum. It does not mean the producer
arrives on set at the call time and the entire cast and crew are
assembled and working. The offer is a teaching offer. And it's ONLY
for this 30 second, 3 page scene.

We go through how to set up auditions. We won't need to do it for
this scene but learning the how and where is valuable.
We go through how to find and hire crew. We won't need to do it for
this scene but learning the how and where is valuable.
We then go through how to find the right studio looking at the various
types available, the costs, the minimums.
We discuss the needs of the shoot with the director and DP.
We put together a line item budget; answering in detail questions
about what each line item is.
We put together the needed paperwork. It might be advantageous to
use SAG-AFTRA actors for the experience of contacting and working
with the guild. Not essential for this project but something to go over
at the very least.

So the “mogul” is not just a passive bystander. This is a “film school”
in a few days.

Now that I think of it doing this for free may not be a wise move on
my part. But the offer was made and still stands. I understand the
reluctance from a lawyer; I'm sure there isn't a lawyer on earth who
would help a wannabe lawyer in this way so it must be strange and
confusing to hear that we creative people are so generous with our
time and experience. What I find strange and confusing is the
reluctance to accept help. All my life in this business I have offered
to help others and others have offered to help me. I learned my
craft that way. I give back to this day. We creatives are a strange
and unusual bunch aren't we?

Say, you're not going to hire Summer Glau, are you? This has been buzzing in the back of my head.

Aspiring Mogul · Dec 7, 2014

To get back to this subject, several scenes have been drafted, and a series bible has also been done.

I was thinking of doing table reads, and perhaps acting the scenes out in a cheap manner first, and then doing the short films. That way, I can flesh out the script, and, of course, when group dynamics can be very good for inspiring an aspiring mogul to pushing ahead with his project.

Is there such a thing as a screen-writers group, like writers group?

How much to do these two scenes?

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