Alright.
I decided that at this point, to avoid any more confusion and (hopefully) embarrassment on my part, I went back and read as much as I could of all the preceding comments in this thread. I didn't read everything in totality, but nonetheless, I believe I get it now.
~AudioPostExpert.
In response to your response about my constant confusion over the definition of "sound design," I blame Guanto and soundslikejoe’s earlier argument for confusing me. I came into this thread thinking that I knew what sound design was--and I pretty much think I did--but then once I started reading through their argument on page 3, my understanding got totally turned around.
But, if I understand correctly now, Sound Design does not always have a specific and singular person in charge of that aspect of a film (as it can involve numerous persons), however, the process of "Sound Design" relates to the orchestration of every aspect of the sound track of a film (their levels, their EQ, their placement, their usage, their tone and flavor as it were), including also Foley, ADR, and the music: as the final mix of a film is also related.
If that is still not the correct definition (as I know there have also been more poetic ways of spinning it as well), then I apologize, and I will formally leave the defining up to the professionals in this matter.
I would also like to reiterate something that I still find troublesome from the earlier portions of this thread, as well as the very last post just above mine here. Specifically, the way in which you, ~Audio Alcove, have relayed your understanding of sound design to both ~trueindie and ~sfoster (both of whom I had been getting confused for each other, as their stances on this issue appear to have been very similar).
Consistently you (and I believe also ~APE) have asserted the position that a film “cannot truly be experienced” unless one is seated inside a quality theatrical environment with a quality sound system. This, I agree, cannot and should not be disputed, because it is indeed true. However, because of the way that you have chosen to word this response in the following quote: leaving off any other qualifying aspects or disclaimers...
I never said 5.1, I said "decent sound system." And you have never experienced sound design - or even the original intent of the film - until you go to a well maintained theater and experience a great film in 5.1, 7.1 or Atmos.
...you have made it appear as if this statement disqualifies all other possible experiences of sound design when watching a film on various different televisions and sound systems. Which is not only unfair but also incredibly misleading to those individuals here who may not know what you are really trying to express, and may assume, just as ~trueindie had, that what you are saying is that sound design as a whole, in any portion and variation of it, cannot be achieved or experienced with anything but the best and most high-quality of equipment and screening setup. And this new assumption cannot only become irritating to hear, but also disheartening, and does not serve to “better” their understanding of the subject or their own craft.
And while it is still true that one cannot "fully" (rather than "truly) experience sound design unless watching a film in a theater setting--so as to hear every nuance and creative choice of the soundtrack, along with its full fidelity--this should not mean to say that some aspects of sound design cannot still be experienced on subpar systems. Most of the world does it every day. The difference between a DVD’s quality and a Blu-ray’s quality when it comes to sound is also a big factor when watching films at home. So those of us who subscribe to watching a lot of blu-rays these days
are getting a better experience at home than we used to.
And hey, I’ve seen the difference between a WAV file and an MP3 when I watch them on a wave-form monitor. So I understand there is also a difference there, especially when I’m recording and editing my voice over tracks and such. But when my ears hear both a WAV file and an MP3 side by side, especially when it’s a highly polished song or an audio track in a professional film, I really can’t tell the difference. The difference comes when something is created poorly from the get go. That is to say, if you create a bad soundtrack in the first place, and convert it all down to an MP3 file, it will sound worse than a high quality soundtrack, done with entirely lossless and full-fidelity tracks and clips, that has also been exported out to a compressed MP3 file.
A classical orchestral masterpiece presented live on stage is still appreciable and magical when it is presented on a CD-rom at home while sitting on your couch with headphones on. It’s not the same, it might not pound in the pit of your chest, and you may not pick up the subtleties of each and every instruments unique sound: but, it isn’t half-bad either.
Again, I cannot deny, however, that all of the things that I have read from both of you make sense, they are well-informed, and they speak true to the concept and practice of weaving sound design all throughout the process of creating a film: from beginning to end. Sound design is often a subconscious aspect of a film. Most people will not notice it right in front of them, but their subconscious recognition of it will inform them about many things regarding the film’s story, its characters, its locations, its tone/mood, and even its setting.
I don’t think I have yet to consider the implications of sound design within a film as early as the writing process. But I think the idea of considering these things so early on is a fascinating prospect, and one that I will work on with great interest when I begin work on my next major film project.
Despite what I have said here, I am completely serious when I say that you both (~Alcove and ~APE) have my respect when it comes to your expertize on the craft of sound design. It is indeed quite a lot to take in just how enormous the sound design process actually is when you break it all down. In fact, I daresay it can be as big and complex as numerous aspects of the film process put together, because it covers so much and has so many levels and layers to it. I honestly don’t think I’d ever really be able to do it myself, so I think I’ll leave the fine tuning and sound editing to someone more qualified. But when it comes to creating and designing aspects of it that I can relay to a sound designer as “part of my ultimate director’s vision,” this will now be inducted as the newest part of my regular pre-production process.
So I thank you both. And I thank the rest of you for explaining all that you have as well.
And I will be sure to go check out that article posted at the front of this thread when I have the chance.
. I owe you a serious apology, because all of my venom stems from how that thread made me feel. And clearly, it's my brain that mis-read everything. Because the advice is obviously there. I don't know how many times you want me to apologize to you. The accusation that you did not help me when I needed it is clearly false.
. I don't know what else to say.
