The MPAA is so $#%ing stupid!

You can by "Short Bus" on unrated DVD in the US, and it's basically an arty farty porno movie (and a god awful one at that). I think you have to be 18 to buy an "unrated" DVD and chains like Walmart don't sell them, but other retailers do. As long as you only sell it to people 18 plus you can release anything short of kiddy porn or a snuff film on DVD in the US.

Kids don't want to go to the movies with their parents. They want to go with their friends.
 
If you shut teenagers out of the equation by releasing an R rated movie instead of PG-13 you have just cut tens or hundreds of millions of dollars of your box office. Little Fockers is a lame retread rated PG-13. It will do half again as much box office as Black Swan (an academy award winning film rated R).

I agree with most of what you're saying about the MPAA and teens, money, etc. Just had to say - I think this comparison is pretty apples/oranges. The overall audience for Little Fockers and Black Swan are going to be markedly different, and Black Swan's probably smaller, for a plethora of reasons that have nothing to do with age.

Offer the general public the chance to spend ten bucks on a "ballet dancer who goes nuts" or "another one of those Focker movies with Ben Stiller and Robert Deniro", and you've probably got the basis for some equation of infinite value to the studios.

gelder
 
Amazing how Little Fockers is a money loser (because it was so expensive to make) and Black Swan is swimming in massive profits (because they shot is on 16mm under a very small budget).
 
Discussing NC-17 is pointless. Not a single studio, big or small, has any interest in such films today. Right now we are seeing R as the new NC-17. Any filmmaker trying to make an R rated film has an uphill battle because the studios want PG-13 to be the end all be all due to money.

Only, I think that the new NC-17 is not R, but rather Un-rated. We see examples of this when it comes to DVD releases; on some titles you get both the R-rated version and the Un-rated version...or simply the Un-rated version. Hey, that's fine. Actually, that's an empowering thing about home video...a way to get your more challenging titles out there while also sticking it to The Man. Not having any delusions about that, though...what makes that possible is not the business folks' interest in sticking it to The Man, but rather, their interest in making a buck, even if it's only on the small screen.

Short Bus is an excellant example. It is entirely unfair to characterize it as a porno...pornographic yes, but not porno. Is it intended to elicit arousal? Yes, I'm sure it is. Is it only about eliciting arousal, as in a porno? Hell no. It is authentic storytelling. It is, in fact, damn good storytelling. What it is is unapologetically adult. What it is is unapologetically sex-positive. Granted, these are unpopular sympathies in America...hell, they are around the globe. But what John Cameron Mitchell gave us with Short Bus was many things. He gave us a love letter to New York City, and I think almost therefore, to America. He gave us an antidote to puritanical, evangelical, neocon America (and beyond). He gave us a sex-positive (and love-positive) portrayal of ordinary (sort of) life.

Anyway, making some point relevant to this discussion, the point I would make is that I'm damn glad that such a film can (or, at least could) still get made and also enjoy some measurable penetration (wink wink) of the market. I'm glad the producers didn't rush to eliminate the unrated version of Short Bus once it started to enjoy critical acclaim. Will sex-negative people be hostile to films like Short Bus? Of course. But in a just world, sex-negative folks wouldn't be in charge and nor would they have the power to marginalize any film daring to exist outside of bible belt sensibilities.

Ron Howard is about to make a film version of Steven King's very adult Gunslinger books and it will be PG-13. Were this 1985 or even 1995, it would be an R rated production all the way.

Wow. On the one hand, I think it's cool someone is doing the Dark Tower Series. That's the first I've heard of it. A fellow geek friend of mine and I have been asking why the hell someone hasn't taken that up. On the one hand I'm inclined to piss and moan about the watering down of the material to a PG-13 rating. On the other hand...what the hell. Hollywood is a business. You can't really argue with that. They have a right to be profit driven. It's unfortunate that everything has to be profit driven, but it is a fact of the unfair World we live in. That is to say, it's sad that profit has to be the overriding motivation. And hey...not just a few PG-13 movies have been damn good. If that's what it takes to get them financed, so be it. Doesn't change the suck-factor of the dumbing down process, though. And, yes, it is a matter of dumbing down the material. But you know what? The more things change, the more they stay the same. Same as it ever was.

...and to remove all prints of the earlier version

So, I was hoping someone would set me straight about that. No one has, so I'll just go ahead and address it without the benefit of knowing for sure what that means. If by that they mean that they wish to eliminate all copies of the R-rated version, then, well...that's just creepy.

Oh, I understand that the R-rated version has probably already been pirated by the Revolution (even if as low-quality recordings purloined from a projection). Fine, it may live on, perhaps, and even be accessible to tenacious seekers. But if the company is really doing away with the R-rated prints of the original...well, as I already wrote, that's pretty damn creepy. I think that that transcends personal business decision and, I don't know, flirts with, um, oh...I don't know, what's a good antonym for integrity?

Anway, a number of you have pointed out the hypocrisy of the MPAA. We all know it. Someone singled out Short Bus as something debased and needing to be distributed without a rating... or, more to the point, with an Un-rating. Well, I've already addressed that. I'd also write one word, or, I guess, one phrase. Can you say torture porn? Have you seen the trailer for the remake of Spit on Your Grave? It's only one in a long line of the genre, by now. So, movies like The King's Speech have to get an R-rating. A thoughtful and moving film like Short Bus has to go without a rating and be lumped in the category of porno, and be marginalized. Meanwhile, torture porn and horror movies in which people routinely get, for example, disemboweled also enjoy a R-rating from the MPAA. Words like absurdity and irrational come to mind.
 
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Why do we censor and limit viewings of fantastic, and unrealistic violence and sex, while having things ten times as worse on any news network?

Yesterday the top headline in my country's most watched news network read: "Homless man found dead in the train tracks. His body was quartered"

Reality vs. Fiction.
I don't want to start a "how much impact does violence in movies have on people"-debate here, but there is a difference between informing about a violent incident and showing violence for entertainment. (even though tabloids also write about such things to entertain) The less realistic the violence in films is, the more dangerous it is for uncritical minds.
 
Amazing how Little Fockers is a money loser (because it was so expensive to make) and Black Swan is swimming in massive profits (because they shot is on 16mm under a very small budget).

If you REALLY believe Little Fockers is a money loser you need to look a lot closer at Hollywood accounting.
 
"A thoughtful and moving film like Short Bus has to go without a rating and be lumped in the category of porno"

I wouldn't lump it in with porno. Porno can be enjoyable. Short Bus made me want to beat myself in the head with a hammer in order to experience something less painful for a few minutes.

Hedwig was excellent, Short Bus on the other hand was the most self indulgent arty farty hunk of dog shit I have seen in my life. It took 5 different attempts to watch that steaming pile of shit before I managed to get all the way through it just so I could said I did it. I'd much rather have an unanesthetized root canal than do it again.
 
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"A thoughtful and moving film like Short Bus has to go without a rating and be lumped in the category of porno"

I wouldn't lump it in with porno. Porno can be enjoyable. Short Bus made me want to beat myself in the head with a hammer in order to experience something less painful for a few minutes.

Short Bus was the most self indulgent arty farty hunk of dog shit I have seen in my life. It took 5 different attempts to watch that steaming pile of shit before I managed to get all the way through it just so I could said I did it. I'd much rather have an unanesthetized root canal than do it again.

:)

I kind of agree.

The point of Shortbus was explicit sex. That's also the point of porn. You can call a dog a cat but it still barks and shits on the rug.

I've had unanaesthetized root canal surgery and it was alright...
 
oh wow... this is a great idea... i mean just think about the....

















nope i got nothing... i have no clue why some one would do this
 
"A thoughtful and moving film like Short Bus has to go without a rating and be lumped in the category of porno"

I wouldn't lump it in with porno. Porno can be enjoyable. Short Bus made me want to beat myself in the head with a hammer in order to experience something less painful for a few minutes.

Hedwig was excellent, Short Bus on the other hand was the most self indulgent arty farty hunk of dog shit I have seen in my life. It took 5 different attempts to watch that steaming pile of shit before I managed to get all the way through it just so I could said I did it. I'd much rather have an unanesthetized root canal than do it again.

trust me... you dont hahahahahahahahahahahahaha stupid military
 
So, I was hoping someone would set me straight about that. No one has, so I'll just go ahead and address it without the benefit of knowing for sure what that means. If by that they mean that they wish to eliminate all copies of the R-rated version, then, well...that's just creepy.

From the The Classification and Rating Administration (CARA) rulebook:
C. If the original version has been exhibited in theatres in the United States,
and the different version receives a different rating than the exhibited
version or is unrated (or if the exhibited version was unrated), that different
version may be exhibited, distributed, promoted or advertised in the United
States only following the complete withdrawal everywhere in the United
States from exhibition and related advertising of the original version
(“withdrawal period”).

D. After the completion of that withdrawal period, the originally rated version
may be released in the home entertainment market, by itself or
simultaneously with the differently-rated version.

The withdraw period is ninety days, but is being waived due to the promotion efforts mentioned in the article CF linked to.
 
Reality vs. Fiction.
I don't want to start a "how much impact does violence in movies have on people"-debate here, but there is a difference between informing about a violent incident and showing violence for entertainment. (even though tabloids also write about such things to entertain) The less realistic the violence in films is, the more dangerous it is for uncritical minds.

I do appreciate your point, but you have to admit that the last sentence in the news "report" is more sensationalism than information. News in the US is just as much about "entertainment" and "audience retention" as any work of fiction. Just saying. Not to call news fictional; just to say that it is as ratings driven as everything else on screens large and small.

Honestly folks, this move by the folks selling The King's Speech is to do two things:

1. Increase the "Post-Oscar" theatrical release revenue by exploiting a very basic (and IMHO stupid) paradigm of the American Psyche. A side effect of which is statements like "Movie A is PG-13, so it must be ok for my kids, but movie B is rated R - no way in hell are my kids seeing that filth!"

2. Drive eventual DVD sales by having more versions to release - essentially exploiting the same behavioral trait.
 
I do appreciate your point, but you have to admit that the last sentence in the news "report" is more sensationalism than information. News in the US is just as much about "entertainment" and "audience retention" as any work of fiction. Just saying. Not to call news fictional; just to say that it is as ratings driven as everything else on screens large and small.

that's true, I believe my point is still valid, though; it was just a bad example.
 
Short Bus made me want to beat myself in the head with a hammer in order to experience something less painful for a few minutes.

Hedwig was excellent, Short Bus on the other hand was the most self indulgent arty farty hunk of dog shit I have seen in my life. It took 5 different attempts to watch that steaming pile of shit before I managed to get all the way through it just so I could said I did it. I'd much rather have an unanesthetized root canal than do it again.

Heheh. You make me giggle with that. But, we're clearly not going to agree about Short Bus. But, hey..."Baby you can cry all night/ but that ain't gonna change the way that I feel... " :P

The point of Shortbus was explicit sex. That's also the point of porn. You can call a dog a cat but it still barks and shits on the rug.

Yeah, a point of Short Bus was explicit sex. But that don't make it a porno, 'cause it ain't. If they wanted to give you a porno, they'd have made a Penthouse Letters video, or something.


Loomis. Ah! Very interesting...thanks for the info.
 
If there is penetration actually seen, then it's porn, in my book. Penetration is penetration.

Not to say Short Bus is not worth seeing. It's an interesting film. But it's porn with a better story.
 
If there is penetration actually seen, then it's porn, in my book. Penetration is penetration.
And thus the issue with the MPAA.

"in my book" gets subjective. Some feel the showing of naked
genitals is porn, some feel violence is worse, some feel simulated
violence in movies isn't as big a problem as real naked bodies.

It's easy to blame the MPAA. But it's a better solution than
government involvement. The MPAA is setting guidelines and
rating movies based on those guidelines - they are not telling
filmmakers what to show or what movies to make. I agree that
the guidelines can seem odd, but they are based on "in my book".
And your book isn't always the same as mine.
 
Agreed. But the simple fact is, in every state, penetration has been defined as pornography if legal action is brought to define the content. It is what it is.

But it's kind of silly to worry about it because today Hollywood doesn't even want to release R rated films. NC-17 isn't even on the radar.
 
I agree, it's silly to worry, but it can make an interesting discussion.

"Hollywood" wants to make and release movies that millions will
pay to see. Newspapers won't accept ad's for NC-17 films so it's
difficult to get the word out and PG films allow for a larger audience.
I read often from people blaming the MPAA - in my book it's that
damn profit based economy we need to blame. "Hollywood" isn't
making films because they love the art of film - they make movies
to make money.

We live in a complex society with people who hold many different
views and opinions. No "rating" system will work for everyone and
the government stepping in is a poor option.
 
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