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My sound recordist and sound editor want the same pay as me, the writer and director.

T

TopazFilms

Hey,

I've been a freelance videographer for about a year. Finally getting to the stage where I'm charging realistic prices for my services. I consult, brand, write, direct, shoot and edit and print.

However...

I've recently started shooting with a sound recordist who also sound designs and mixes.

It takes great pressure off of me during the shoot, and once my edit is complete, he basically replaces the sound on the video, and takes small liberty in additional SFX here and there.

However, now I'm starting to charge fairly for our services, he believes he's entitled to a 50/50 split of the money. Whenever I'm trying to plan, budget, and pitch a project, his argument is, "I'll make sure I do just as many hours as you, so make it fifty-fifty."

The way I see it is...

I'm conceiving the video, consulting with the client, planning, budgeting, pitching, screenwriting, storyboarding, scheduling, shooting, directing, and editing the video. Once I've handed the video over to my friend, he simply replaces the sound with his professional sound files, and I sit with him every hour and we mix and master it together.

It seems to me as though I'm doing a hell of a lot more work than he is.

NOW...

I don't want to sound like a control freak. I want him to get paid a fair price for the work he is doing. I like him a lot and he's very talented at what he does. The trouble is, there isn't a great video industry in our area, and I'm sort of learning the "business" as I go along. I'm not so sure how to handle it.

Does this guy have a point? Or is it ridiculous to expect 50%? Or am I being naive about the audio side of filmmaking?
 
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It depends on what level of money we're talking. Unfortunately for you, Audio is extremely important. The other question has to be, is that all he's doing? Is he bringing in any new clients?

It'll depend on what 50% is. If you're doing a job for $500, then half is very cheap. If you're charging $5000 for a job, then $2500 is quite a chunk. This is assuming most jobs are a day or two.

Why not just hire him as an employee if you don't like giving up half?
 
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@Sweetie: I fully appreciate the importance of the audio. That's why I reached out to him in the first place.

No, he's not bringing in any new clients. Nor is he involved in any other stage of production. But his argument is that his recording and replacing of the sound - both of which I'm present for - is worth the same percentage as my involvement fulfilling all the other roles.

I'm currently pitching a video interpretation for the museum, and have worked out my costs as around £1750. I spoke to this audio fellow and he says, "Great, my costs are £1750, too. I'll just do the same number of hours as you." But that'd push the budget too high.

It seems to me a strange attitude to have.

I suppose I'm just curious whether it's common for a sound recordist, editor and mixer to receive the same wage as the producer, writer, shooter and editor combined...?
 
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@rayw: That's the problem. He changes it every time depending on the work I say I'll be charging for. If I'm charging £1000, he'll charge £1000. If I charge £2, he'll charge £2.

The problem is there isn't a great deal of qualified talent in this area. And on top of that, the companies and institutions I'm pitching to haven't got big budgets.

I'm charging very competitive rates for MY services. But my worry is that he's grossly overcharging for his services all in the same of "fifty-fifty, because that's fair."
 
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Well, in that case tellhim what you charge for the time you are on set (when he is) and the time you sit with him. What does he do when you don't sit with him? (Preparing stuff, mixing, syncing?) And how much time does it take (do you think)? Add that to the quote.

The time you sit with clients, plan, write (without him) you can leave out of it.

It may not be completely being transparant, but when I get hired by one of my best friends I don't charge half the budget, I charge for my time and gear and that price also reflects my skills.
If he is busy for 10 days and I work for 1 day 50/50 is quite ridiculous.

Same thing when I hire him. I pay for his time.
 
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@WalterB: Thanks. It sounds like a stupid consideration now I've typed it out. I think I need to sit down and talk it through with him. He's become a friend, which has made the business side tricky. And I think he's a little naive about everything involved besides the audio.
 
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I do a bit of Audio engineering. I don't charge much compared to others in my area. I don't have flat rates I go by, but per hour. usually 20 to 25 (CAN).

Have you asked this audio engineer why his pricing is like that. Other then because I will be working the same hours.
Did you explain all the jobs you are doing and the time you put into pitch it as well. Also would be good to ask him to brake down his rates for you, In terms of Recording/Editing/Mixing/Mastering. Hourly or per job/job length.
 
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It's difficult to judge based on the info you've provided. For example, to what standard is he working and what level of quality is he providing within that standard, what level of equipment/facilities does he have to cover, what duration and complexity are the projects you're doing, etc.

Without any of this info I'm just guessing but on the face of it, he may be overcharging. If you could provide more info, I could give you a more accurate assessment.

G
 
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In general the audio side of a project is just as important and
essential to the visual side. Yes, some big name directors and
producers get more then the audio team combined. I'm sure
you understand that; the general public may decide to see a
Spielberg or Anderson or Nolan movie but not care much who
did the audio.

So in your case it seems reasonable that the audio person gets
the same as you. As others have said; break down the total
hours spent. If you are spending more hours then you should
be paid more. Don't be too surprised if you discover he spends
more hours working than you do.
 
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I suppose I'm just curious whether it's common for a sound recordist, editor and mixer to receive the same wage as the producer, writer, shooter and editor combined...?
Click to expand...

No. Sometimes they earn more, sometimes less.

I'm currently pitching a video interpretation for the museum, and have worked out my costs as around £1750. I spoke to this audio fellow and he says, "Great, my costs are £1750, too. I'll just do the same number of hours as you." But that'd push the budget too high.
Click to expand...

It might be time to think about this another way. What you need to do is sit him down and discuss this.

Being partners is more than just doing the same amount of hours. It's about contributing relatively equal value to the entire business. The Ying and Yang. Say for instance, one partner is doing 80% of the value of the work and the other is only doing the remaining 20%, though taking the same amount of time to complete the task, Would that be fair in that relationship? It may be, though it may not be. You have to decide if that's the position you want to be in. Not all tasks are created equal.

One way could be to sit him down and talk with him. Say you'd love to take him on as a partner, though it'd have to be a more equitable relationship. Ask him, what tasks he'd take on to make it a more fair relationship. If he doesn't budge, you need to think of whether you want to develop a business relationship.

It's also time to think long term. Talk about what would happen to the company if it grows... What if it explodes? Now think of how fair this split will be down the track. You've managed to turn it into a real business bringing in the big bucks, where you're the one managing the entire company, handling everything else, doing all the other work, and he's now only one of the many audio guys you have. Would it still be fair at that point? Doesn't sound so reasonable now, does it? Be careful to what you agree with now. A disproportionate level of responsibilities kills partnerships in the long term.

To be honest, to me, he's coming across more as an employee than a partner. It's just a matter of perspective though.
 
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The general gist I'm getting is this person seems inexperienced. Perhaps they don't know what they should be able to charge for their services, or what they're worth, and therefore a question of 'what's your rate' is met with 'well what are you getting paid?'

In a professional sense, I've never really heard of crew members querying Producers on how much specific members of the rest of the crew get paid, but hey I'm sure it happens/has happened.

When I work, I sometimes may scale my rate depending on the client and budget, but I have a fair idea of my rate and what I'm worth to the production, and I charge accordingly. If the Director is getting double that rate, then that's fair enough - I would only be annoyed if it were a big budget commercial or similar where everyone's getting double, triple or more than I am and the Producer came to me in the first place asking me to cut my rate because it's a 'low budget' thing (which has happened, and happens more than you might think).

My suggestion would be to say this is the day rate I have for your on-set time, and this is the flat rate I have for you for the post stuff. Then you can negotiate from there. Seems a bit odd to simply qoute the same price as yourself and assure you that 'he'll do the same hours' - what if he does more? What if he does less?
 
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TopazFilms said:
If I'm charging £1000, he'll charge £1000. If I charge £2, he'll charge £2. (...) worry is that he's grossly overcharging for his services all in the same of "fifty-fifty, because that's fair."
Click to expand...

This dude is willing to stick by you & your startup business for next to nothing, when some projects have almost no budgets? Sure, he's not a partner, but I'd be making sure he got more than a fair shake, when the sun started shining and the money finally started coming in. Unless you're going to retroactively pay him what he was really worth on those projects, back when you and your business didn't have the bux to do so.

It sounds like you two need to define your working relationship with each other, and probably before your next project. But yes, he does need to figure out his individual worth/rate, too. Does he have other clients?

Good luck :)
 
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You need to separate you the "Business" and you the "Employee" and determine how much the business is paying you and why, for all the paperwork to get the gig vs. actually doing the gig. Once you know that you can determine what your audio guy should be paid (maybe 50% of the gig costs but not 50% of the planning/gig-setup costs).
 
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Thanks to EVERYONE for their responses. They've really helped me find a perspective.

I think it balls down to inexperience on both our parts, and not breaking down the process in enough detail far enough in advance. He seems to think he'll just spend an equal number of ours by default to ensure he gets equal pay, and not looking at the job in particular. I, on the other hand, am perhaps a little paranoid that everyone is trying to rip me off ;)

Thanks, guys. I'll probably post another query along this journey when I come to it.
 
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