Which shotgun mic paired with a Zoom H4N best yields quality results?

RavenousMonster

RavenousMonster

Hello,

My co-producer is a videographer/hobbiest and he bought a Panasonic HVX250 recently, mainly to shoot a short that I wrote and plan to direct. Feeling guilty, I decided I'd handle purchasing the sound recording equipment. However, it turns out that his camera budget is much higher than my sound equipment budget (I know, I know, sound is half the movie. I didn't think he'd get such a pricey camera....).

I've already purchased a Zoom H4N after consulting with several filmmakers I know, great and small, all of whom vouched for the Zoom's bang-for-the-buck ratio (I've read mixed reviews, but I've read the same things regarding other comparable recorders too). I have quite a bit of knowledge about sound recording in a musical context, but almost no familiarity regarding film sound recording. I'm assuming the Zoom pre-amp isn't fantastic and I can't afford a nice mixer yet, one that will allow me to rely on its pre-amp and bypass that of the Zoom (http://youtu.be/cRNd9DT0_is).

So, my question is which shotgun mic, when paired with the Zoom, will yield the best all around results shooting outdoors? I have around $300 to allocate to just the mic. Any information is much appreciated. Thanks in advance.
 
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I use a H4N with a Rode NTG-1 shotgun mic and the results are good! However any of the Rode series will do you well there's also the NTG-2 and 3 to choose from. I went for the NTG-1 due to budget and I know a load of people use the NTG-2
 
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I own a RODE NTG1 and have used it with the H4N with good results. Be careful with the NTG2, as I understand it the NTG2 it has lower levels so you may get more noise. If I had it to do over again I would have waited and saved for the NTG3 because it sounds much better than the 1&2.

Best Regards,

Kurt A. Kroh
NOISE NINJA
 
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Thanks! Do either of you know which mic spec dictates its level and thus the overall signal to noise ratio? I hear that with the H4N the mic needs to have a high gain. How are the levels with the NTG1, Kurt?

Jason
 
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Mics that supply their own phantom power like the NTG-2 and AT897 have tend to have lower volume output than their brothers the NTG-1 and AT875.

Just be aware that when you supply the phantom power from the H4n you will drain its batteries very rapidly, about 60 to 90 minutes.

If you want better S/N ratios get a better mic, like the NTG-3. However, the noisy pre-amps of the H4n will negate any S/N ratio advantage of the pricier mic.
 
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Tascam HD-P2, Fostex FR-2, Marantz PMD-661.

Of course, you could buy a mixer to feed the H4n - PSC DV Promix series, Wendt X series and, of course, Sound Devices.

In addition to the NTG-3 you may want to consider the Sanken CS-1e, Audio-Technica BP4073, or Sennehieser ME-66.
 
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Hi Paul,

I thought about plugging into the camera, but the more I considered it the more I figured that the camera preamp has to be at least as crappy as the Zoom's. I mean, it's a camera, not a sound recording device. An even if the quality is comparable to that of the Zoom, I'd be teathered to the camera and that presents its own set of issues that I'd rather avoid.

AlcoveAudio,

The NTG-3 and similar mics are a bit out of my price range. Is there anything that falls between the NTG-3 and the NTG-1, price-wise, regardless of brand?
 
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The levels from the NTG-1 were very good and I got very useable results. Don't get me wrong, the only reason I want an NTG-3 is because I am a sound professional that intends to sell my services. You can get very good results from the NTG-1 if you use good technique. If you intend to shoot outside I would also recommend a RODE blimp and boom pole.

Best Regards,

Kurt A. Kroh
 
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The NTG-1 and AT875 do a very nice job for the price. Keep in mind that you need a whole bunch of accessories - a boom-pole, a shock-mount, wind protection and cables. That will easily exceed the price of the mic.

I need to stress once again that having the gear will not give you good sound; having the skills to use the gear properly will give you good sound.

Oh, by the way, unless you have those skills you may want to seriously consider a hypercardioid mic for indoor usage.
 
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Thanks a bunch for all the info. I have most of the accessories already. I just wanted to specifically research mics for as long as possible because I know I'm not getting A-level equipment; I can't and I won't be able to for the foreseeable future. So, I want to make sure I squeeze out the absolute most quality with this level of gear that I can. And while I have no experience recording sound for movies, I have twenty years of experience recording music, live and in-studio. So I'm looking forward to adding to those skills by learning the techniques that are movie-specific. And I'm planning on getting a hypercardioid mic for our indoor set-ups. Hence, my limmited budget for the shotgun mic. Thanks again, everyone. Please feel free to drop more knowledge on me. It's much appreciated.
 
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Look around for used gear. Just do your research, test it thoroughly and be sure that there is a return policy with the vendor.

There are lots of Sennheiser ME66 shotguns around in the $350 to $400 range. I personally find them a little on the brittle side (sound-wise; the build is VERY solid) but lots of folks absolutely love them.
 
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Since this thread has been contributed to by more than enough knowledgable, helpful people, I'll pose my next question here rather than starting a new thread and we'll see how it goes. It's basically the same question except you should replace "shotgun mic" with "hypercardioid mic". I'm looking for anyone with any experience using the H4N with a hypercardioid mic. Any recommendations? I've found much less info on this than I did regarding shotgun mics. Thanks in advance.
 
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The Oktava mk012 is a popular budget hypercardioid at about $300. It is very prone to handling noise even when used in a shock mount as it is not really made to be a production sound mic. Be careful of Chinese knock-offs.

The Audio Technica AT4053b is another popular hypercardioid at about $600.

I have no experience with them, but here are some hypercardioid mics that are starting to gain a little traction with the micro budget production sound crowd:

Avantone CK-1 ($150)
AKG Blue Line SE-300B/CK93 ($475)
Audix SCX1/HC ($500)

As always, I have to stress that just having a hypercardioid does not eliminate the hollow roomy sound; it is only a little better than using a shotgun which actually accentuates the reflection problem. Set prep and booming skill will do much more to mitigate indoor sound problems.
 
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RavenousMonster said:
Do either of you know which mic spec dictates its level and thus the overall signal to noise ratio? I hear that with the H4N the mic needs to have a high gain.
Click to expand...

Unless the specifications specifically list signal to noise ratio (SNR) there's no easy way to know. A point worth mentioning is that although gain staging is one of the most fundamental aspects of production sound recording (or any audio recording), many, if not most, do not understand it very well, even amongst many professionals! The result, when recording in 24bit, is usually levels which are unnecessarily high, which decreases SNR rather than maximising it.

G
 
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I'm curious if there exists any hypercardioid mic or another type of mic all together that would be sufficient for both indoor production recording (dialogue) as well as ambient/sound FX recording. I'm looking in the $200-$300 range. I ended up going with the NTG-1 for my shotgun and now I'm hoping to kill a couple birds with one stone with the next mic I buy. Thanks!
 
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RavenousMonster said:
I'm curious if there exists any hypercardioid mic or another type of mic all together that would be sufficient for both indoor production recording (dialogue) as well as ambient/sound FX recording. I'm looking in the $200-$300 range. I ended up going with the NTG-1 for my shotgun and now I'm hoping to kill a couple birds with one stone with the next mic I buy. Thanks!
Click to expand...

As always, there a lots of variables. Outdoors a shotgun is preferred because it has better off-axis rejection, meaning that if it is used correctly you capture more dialog and less background noise. Because indie filmmakers tend to use real world indoor spaces that have very reflective sonic properties a hypercardioid mic is preferred as it mitigates the problem to some degree (again, if it is used correctly).

A far as sound effects recording for true ambience recording you would use a stereo mic. (BTW, as long as the ambience isn't too quiet the H4n will do an okay job of recording ambiences.) When it comes to sound effects it depends upon what type of sounds you want to record, where you are recording them, and the specifics pertaining to the locations. Recording an elevator door in an empty suburban office building (probably a cardioid condenser mic) is a lot different than recording a howitzer during the annual Cannon Firing Competition at Camp Grayling, Michigan (probably am omni dynamic mic) . Of course, professional sound effects people are loaded up when they go after sound effects using multiple recorders and a large selection of mics (plus years of experience).

Just to confuse things more; are you going to be recording Foley?

I have already listed some hypercardioids in post #17; two of them fall in your budget range and would be adequate for the basics as would the NTG-1. Having been a do-more-with-less kind of guy for most of my life I can tell you from experience that you need to spend A LOT of time experimenting so you can get the most out of small budget equipment.
 
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