Making a short film shot on 16mm?

Hi,

I know hardly anything about shooting on film, but I might be willing to hire someone who knows how to for a short film (2-5 min).

I'm wondering if someone could give me some insight on this, for example how much money it would cost including buying the film and getting someone to shoot it and getting it digitized. It could possibly be shot silent and I could put in music and sound effects after it has been digitized.

If I found someone who knows what they're doing, could I expect good quality after it has been digitized?

Thanks.
 
This will get you in the ball park. I know there are some guys here who know some more affordable places. I think Zensteve uses a place called Varsity?? if my memory serves. Which it doesn't most of the time.:)

http://www.spectrafilmandvideo.com/Film.html

I wouldn't look at just the cost of the film. You have to consider developing, and telecine as well. I was looking into shooting on Super 8mm, and, to be frank, its cost prohibitive for small budgets.
 
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Hi Caritas,

You're going to get a lot of people who will tell you not to
use film - I suspect more than those who will answer your
question. Few people here are "film" people. Mudock posted
an excellent link to get prices for stock, processing and telecine.
How much a DP will charge depends on your local market. I
suspect anyone who owns a 16mm camera would love to
shoot for you for very little money

Hi,
If I found someone who knows what they're doing, could I expect good quality after it has been digitized?
Yes. Anyone who really knows what they are doing when shooting
film should be able to get good quality.
 
My advice, and I have shot on Super16, HD and Super 8mm...

Do one small short film first. On Super 8mm. Get your feet wet. Heck, go to Straight8.net, read up on their contest and see if it's something you want to do. I did two and found it amazingly helpful to my artistic muscles.

I am editing a Super 8mm short right now and if you have the right story, it can rock the house. Plus, it will stand out. And cost less than 16mm or a RED rental.
 
My advice, and I have shot on Super16, HD and Super 8mm...

Do one small short film first. On Super 8mm. Get your feet wet. Heck, go to Straight8.net, read up on their contest and see if it's something you want to do. I did two and found it amazingly helpful to my artistic muscles.

I am editing a Super 8mm short right now and if you have the right story, it can rock the house. Plus, it will stand out. And cost less than 16mm or a RED rental.

If you decide to go ahead with Super 8, be sure to check Etsy for used cameras. They have tons, most in the $15-$100 range (though there's a Canon from the 70s on there at the moment that's going for just under $700). Just make sure you read the descriptions, as sometimes people sell non-functional ones just for decoration.

I'm actually considering picking one up myself, just to try it out (I always wanted a Super 8 camera when I was a teenager, but at that time they were more expensive and harder to find and I just never seemed to have the money when a used one was available).
 
I know my issue is that people come here asking about shooting
film specifically and they get "don't shoot film because it's cheaper
to shoot....(fill in the blank). They more often than not get one or
two people answering thier questions and five or six telling them
not to shoot film at all.

Kinda bothers me.

I don't shoot film anymore either because of the cost. But when
someone want's information of what it might cost I feel they should
get that information.
 
Film is fabulous!

Cinelab.com is a great place to have film processed and transferred. Go to their site and check out their rate card.

I shoot film when I have the money but money has been tight so I've been shooting with my Nikon D7000.

But every few months I have to run some B&W reversal through my 16mm, I get it back and hand cut it, splice it with my M3 splicer and project it for my family. It's a real blast.
 
Thanks everyone, I appreciate the advice. Like I said, I know hardly anything about shooting on film. I was hoping that if I can put up the money for a short on actual film, I could find someone who can handle the technical stuff. I've been disappointed with a lot of digital problems I've had, even when I've hired people to provide more professional results that I could produce. I know some people would tell me that working with film could prove more difficult and frustrating, but I'd still like to try it at least once.

Any suggestions on trying to find a film person to help me? Should I check local film directories?
 
I've used Cinelab for the development of my recent film's stock. Not bad rates ($30/100' roll) but i was also paying with a student discount. And I usually got my footage back on mini DV (others got theirs on external hard drives or DVDs) about a week later.

And if you're going with b/w I suggest buying 7266 Tri-X Reversal. Negative is good but it takes weeks to get it back from Cinelab for some reason. And it's less susceptible to over exposure (though still possible).

What camera were you thinking about shooting on?
 
I love film and I recommend that everybody shoot film at sometime, but if you've never shot anything, shoot video to learn the basics. I have shot hundreds of thousands of feet of film and still think it's worth it if you can afford it.

I have a friend in North Carolina who has lots of film gear and likes to help indies. He is not free, but he will not take your last penny. Contact via private message to get more info.

Cinelab is great. If you tell them you're just starting out they may give you the student rate which is very helpful.

If you shoot film, take your time and plan, plan, plan. Shooting film builds discipline and I think makes you really pick shots carefully.

Scott
 
Out of all of the projects for which I've done the post audio, only one was shot on film. There are a number of shorts (and segments of features) that I show potential clients, but they always sit up when I show them "Hard Attack." Besides the nice job I did on the audio post they immediately notice the quality of film.

One thing that I must mention from a sound perspective - you have to be really cognizant of the physical camera noise when shooting in small enclosed spaces (like a bathroom), it can get very loud as it bounces about the room.
 
I helped out on a feature shot on 16mm film and the one thing that stood out the most (compared to video) was the sheer amount of rehearsal done before any film was exposed. Each scene was practiced over and over, and then shot in 1-2 takes.
 
Thanks everyone, I appreciate the advice. Like I said, I know hardly anything about shooting on film. I was hoping that if I can put up the money for a short on actual film, I could find someone who can handle the technical stuff. I've been disappointed with a lot of digital problems I've had, even when I've hired people to provide more professional results that I could produce. I know some people would tell me that working with film could prove more difficult and frustrating, but I'd still like to try it at least once.

Any suggestions on trying to find a film person to help me? Should I check local film directories?

Here is a suggestion. If you want to try working on film to get a feel for the difficulties and oprtunities of the medium why not shoot a spec 30 second commercial or 30 second promo for a film you would like to develope.

This way the costs pertinent to that medium, which may be much affected by innexperience, will be reduced. The project length naturally puts the burden on all the other aspects of production. IMHO the most important aspect should normally be concept development. This can devolve into ideas for the realization. How you formalize and realize those concepts. If your development proces is loose, chances are you will spend more on film. Spend energy and thought on development.

In the limit (as in mathematical proof) the medium of film I believe will have an evolution into a medium for artists only. Think Lynch doing Erazerhead or Chris Marker doing La Jette, but imagine that history haden't yet happened. It may be wasred somewhat on narrative film makers as a medium. If film makers and thair audience can't tell the difference between film and digital it (film) may dissapear quickly as a mainstream production and exhibition medium.

We live in a world where we are told that everything can be expressed as a collectiuon of discrete parts. The world is deconstructed. An image is encoded as a matrix of zeros and ones that are transposed off to somewhere else. But like the frog that we may have been forced to disect in class, the analysis of parts is an exercise that can easily end the life force or whole value that glued all the parts together.

When light collides with a piece of celluloid it is a kind of total event leaving a vivid record. Analogous to the way all impacting experience on us (mind/body/physiology) leaves a record. These impressions don't easily dissapear. even if they are undersired. I think we are obliged to find or make images of significance or unavoidable fascination and then learn how to deal with them. I think there will be some artist who will linger in the world who will find film as a medium a fascinating loadstone in this respect.

There is a line that is being crossed as film dissapears from our experience in the mainstream cinema. It's a validation and reinforcement of the completely eroneous idea that only the surfaces matter. If we make digital look like film, who wiull ever know or remember it. But consider this, if you could have a rubber doll that looked , sounded and did everything in an identical way to your life partner, would you accept them as being of equal value? To accept that (the rubber doll) are you really even human enymore.

So please go ahead and enjoy film medium while you can. A good DP and maybe producer or assistant director who has worked on Indies on film will help make it work.

Cheers,
Gregg.
 
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