using music in a trailer

rianlemon

rianlemon

Hey everyone, I've recently had to cancel a zero budget feature I was making but want to make a trailer anyway (because I got about half the footage I need, and don't want it to go to waste completely). Obviously I'm never going to make money from the film and its really something only a few friends would ever see. I was wondering if I can use copyrighted music in the trailer. I've seen it before on youtube, where in the video description they'll write something like 'this music is not being used for profit blablabla' with some legal stuff. Does that provide immunity from youtube taking the video down? Or would they eventually get rid of it?

The musics quite obscure, well not exactly mainstream anyway. What do you think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxay2IJEkfQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goDd02TTxBA

These are the two tracks
 
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Technically its 100% illegal.
You need permission, without which you're breaking copyright law.
You're benefiting, even if not monetarily, from the work of someone else and "crediting them" just isn't quite the cure all too many people think it is.

Morally it's 100% unethical.
Now, we can subdivide that into social and professional ethics.
Social ethics are absurdly broad, where enforcement of the law is the law, not just abiding by known laws.
Socially there's almost no penalty.
Legally there's problems, but your family, friends, & neighbors aren't going to stone you or nothing.

Professionally, however, it's a peer group faux pas.
Musicians think filmmakers are d!ckheads because of sh!t like this.
Filmmakers fake innocence then indignantly cite "I'm providing you with more exposure! You should be grateful, you musical pricks!", which is just what the pirates claim when they illegally rip off copyrighted films and post them on their torrents, for fun and/or not profit.
And we all know pirating films is a clear d!ckhead bastard c#nt-face move... but swiping music is cool, right?
:hmm: @ssholes.

So, your fellow filmmakers aren't going to stone you either, but we often will just make a mental note that you're a dishonest d!ckhead for using copyrighted music without permission and playing Pontious Pilot by "giving credit" to those you stiffed.


It's a bad habit to cultivate as a filmmaking professional.


It's best to get permission from the musician(s), pony up some cash for them, or find some public domain music.
IMHO. :cool:
 
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Yes, you have seen others do it. It’s still illegal and unethical.
There is a very common misunderstanding about copyright.
The copyright is the right to copy - the owner has the right
to decide who copies their work and how their work is used.
Copyright has nothing at all to do with monitary gain.

There are so many composers and bands who are just like
you - creating zero budget music - that it should be easy for
you to find someone willing to allow you to use their mucis.
Right here on indietalk there are several dozen composers
offering their music for free.
 
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Yeah you're both completely right. In this case though I've picked Aphex Twin aswell for his own stance on copyright. 'having music for free is a good thing, because I don't think music should be a commodity. I've changed my opinion to and fro over the years, but I really do think there shouldn't be any copyright on art'. So if the man himself doesn't mind I don't see how its morally an issue here. Although I should probably try find other music because I don't want to fall into the habit. Thanks for the help!
 
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rianlemon said:
I've picked Aphex Twin aswell for his own stance on copyright...So if the man himself doesn't mind I don't see how its morally an issue here.
Click to expand...

Of course the Aphex Twin's music is all copyrighted so either your quote is inaccurate or Aphex Twin is saying one thing but doing another. Regardless of the accuracy of the quote though, using the music without permission is copyright theft, so you seem to be saying that theft is not "morally an issue"?

rianlemon said:
Although I should probably try find other music because I don't want to fall into the habit.
Click to expand...

On this we can agree, it's also my opinion that theft is not a good habit to fall in to!

G
 
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rianlemon said:
So if the man himself doesn't mind I don't see how its morally an issue here.
Click to expand...

Do the many various labels that have published his music also go along with his philosophy?

Regardless, that's not going to be a lot of use if your film ends up generating some interest from a distributor, who'll be wanting black & white clearances for all materials.

Unless, of course, you'd actually turn down an opportunity to make money from your film if someone waved a cheque under your nose. :)

You either have permission to use something, or you don't. Why don't you contact him directly and get permission, if you're sure he'll give it away. He may not even have permission to do that, if it's a song he didn't publish on his own label... or a variety of other licensing complications.

.
 
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Zensteve said:
Out of curiosity... if your film turns out to be awesome, you'd be cool with me downloading a copy of it and re-selling your film for $20 a pop, keeping all the money for myself and not giving you any? :hmm:
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haha good point but you've misunderstood what I'm doing with the trailer! I couldn't finish shooting because one of the actors dropped out, I got about 50% of the footage I need. So now I'm just doing up a trailer for fun to show my friends (I don't want all that footage going to waste), and I was wondering if I put the trailer on youtube with the music I liked from aphex twin, would it be taken down straight away? I just really like his music and can't think of a better fit in my trailer. I would have only used 20 seconds of it for what thats worth aswell. It's not a professional film by any means (even if it is awesome)
 
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I was wondering if I put the trailer on youtube with the music I liked from... , would it be taken down straight away? I just really like his music and can't think of a better fit in my trailer. I would have only used 20 seconds of it for what thats worth aswell. It's not a professional film by any means (even if it is awesome)
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Awesomeness or the lack thereof doesn't really matter.
Neither does duration.
And youtube won't take it down until the copyright's owner's attorneys contact youtube and say "pull it, or else... "
You probably won't even be contacted.

Now, here's the really screwy part: if you use it as a parody you can pretty much do anything you want under "fair use". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use#Fair_use_and_parody

However, what you've described clearly falls outside of that parameter. :)
 
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Results can vary, RayW. I had a video yanked and an account warning issued last year for a musical highlights video I'd made, for an organisation that had full licensing through ASCAP & BMI. Getting all the paperwork from my client in a timely fashion was harder than contesting anything with YouTube, so I ended up re-hosting.

YouTube has a pretty robust automated song ID system, always scanning for IP issues. However, they might already have an arrangement with a label to automatically monetise correctly, as opposed to shutting it down. You never know what's going to happen, 'til it happens. It kinda blows, but at least there's options.

Anyways, I'm ramblin'. Back on topic :cool:
 
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rianlemon said:
I just really like his music and can't think of a better fit in my trailer.
Click to expand...

And I just really like a Ferrari 428 and can't think of a better fit for my garage, should I go out and steal one?

Ask yourself why you "really like his music". You really like his music because it's been created by a top professional, recorded and mixed in a very expensive commercial facility by top professionals and then mastered in another very expensive commercial facility by another top professional. If everyone was free to do what they liked with music recordings there would be no way of recouping the cost of making a high quality recording. The consequence of this would be that there would be no professionals (let alone top professionals) and no very expensive high quality commercial facilities for them to work in anyway. If there were no copyright law this track which you like so much would almost certainly not exist in the first place or if it did would be so different that you probably wouldn't like it anyway!

Copyright laws exist so there can be commercial quality music, films, books, etc., and therefore professional composers, directors, authors, etc. On the one hand you "really like" what copyright law enables to exist and on the other hand you are saying that copyright law shouldn't exist as you have little/no moral objection to breaking it. I can't see your logic here?

G
 
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rianlemon said:
haha good point but you've misunderstood what I'm doing with the trailer!
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I don't think Zen doesn't understand what you're doing with the trailer.
From reading all the comments here I think we all understand what you're
doing with the trailer. I think you are looking for others to tell you it's okay
to violate someones copyright in your, specific, situation.

rianlemon said:
and I was wondering if I put the trailer on youtube with the music I liked from aphex twin, would it be taken down straight away?
Click to expand...
No. It won't get taken down right away. But that's not why you shouldn't
violate the copyright of someone whose work you really like. Of course
"everyone" does it. And you see it all the time. But you now know it's just
not the right thing to do. Get permission. If you don't what to be bothered
then use his music without permission. If it's just for fun to show your
friends don't post it on YouTube. If you don't want to footage to go to waste
then find different music that you have permission to use and cut a different
trailer to show in public. Often doing the right thing is difficult, isn't it?
 
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directorik said:
I don't think Zen doesn't understand what you're doing with the trailer.
From reading all the comments here I think we all understand what you're
doing with the trailer. I think you are looking for others to tell you it's okay
to violate someones copyright in your, specific, situation.


No. It won't get taken down right away. But that's not why you shouldn't
violate the copyright of someone whose work you really like. Of course
"everyone" does it. And you see it all the time. But you now know it's just
not the right thing to do. Get permission. If you don't what to be bothered
then use his music without permission. If it's just for fun to show your
friends don't post it on YouTube. If you don't want to footage to go to waste
then find different music that you have permission to use and cut a different
trailer to show in public. Often doing the right thing is difficult, isn't it?
Click to expand...

Yeah sorry if I came across as a bit stubborn or arrogant. I've ditched the old music and have two new tracks I got from http://freemusicarchive.org/
 
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