Distribution Plan

trueindie

trueindie

A few months ago, I was thinking of the best way to expose good films that are made by indie filmmakers, that were made with small budgets and have no cast members of any note. I thought the best way to do that would be to start a film festival. I was looking into it and talked to three small local theatres about it. They were enthusiastic, but really didn't want to cut me a break on costs. Also, I was kind of ambivalent about how much this effort would actually help filmmakers, given the fact that there is a film festival around every corner. So I kind of put the festival idea on the back burner.

I was thinking about it again, and started thinking of actually trying to distribute such films to the local theaters, for money. I talked to the same three local theaters. They said they would be open to showing indie films even with unnamed casts. But they all want me to do the following

- Spend at least $1000 advertising the event (more if more than one theater would play the film)
- Either guarantee them a minimum amount for the showing or rent out the theater (amount dependent on the day of the week)

or

- Rent out the theater for a price and handle ticket sales myself

By the way none of the theaters care if I show dvd, blueray, film whatever.

So this is all in the preliminary stages in my head only, and so means absolutely nothing. I have no films to show. So here are my questions to the community:

- How many of you have completed feature films, whatever the genre, that you have enough control over to provide to an endeavor of this type, and would actually be interested in something like this?
- What would be an equitable way to share profits, after costs (costs should be predefined)
- Does anybody think it's a good idea?
- Do you have any ideas for me in how to negotiate with the theaters?
- Do you have any ideas for me in general?
- Any ideas on how to make sure that I procure movies that actually have good enough production value at least in terms of sound.

Thanks for the input.
Aveek
 
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trueindie said:
I believe you. If it were easy, I'm sure everybody would be doing it. But I don't think it will be feasible for me to go with the likes of AMC. They might want me to spend $5000 in advertising, which I'm not going to do. I might try to have a conversation with them, but we'll see if they meet with me.
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What I'm talking about here is four-walling. The theater charges you
a rental fee and you keep all the ticket sales. They don't care if you
spend nothing on advertising and do not get even one person into
the theater - they get their fee for the night.

But more and more I get the impression you are thinking along the
lines of a theater owner taking on some of the financial risk. That's
different than four-walling and not something the major chains will
consider.

So at this point - just talking - how much do you think you might
be able to spend on advertising?
 
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trueindie said:
@Rik

I can afford to do it. I think before I spend anything I want a number of films (let's say 10 for the sake of a number) that I can release one after the other. It may be cheaper to start with one theater rather than with three.
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I understand starting small but starting with one theater isn't economically smart. There's a reason studios don't produce ONE "sure-fire" blockbuster. They produce movies with tiny and massive budgets, with unknowns and A-list actors, comedies and thrillers. The idea is to hedge as much risk as possible. So for distribution, some theaters will obviously outperform others. It's better to have shorter playings across multiple theaters, than long playings across a single theatre.

I would secure rental agreements with multiple theaters across the nation. When you get a film, you spread the film across theaters you feel it will work well in. If it's a film about an Asian kid learning to live in America, you focus on theaters in cities with large Asian-American demographics. If it's a political thriller, you focus on theaters in cities with a high voters ratio.

These are very broad examples but randomly picking a theatre is reckless. And as other people mentioned, this is useless without marketing.

Good luck.
 
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directorik said:
But more and more I get the impression you are thinking along the
lines of a theater owner taking on some of the financial risk. That's
different than four-walling and not something the major chains will
consider.
Click to expand...

The reason I was thinking along those lines is that two of the theaters offered me that option. I think the final decision is going to be made on the quality of the movies I end up getting, maybe. If I get something that the theaters think is awesome, maybe they'd be more willing to do something like that. Then again, maybe quality of the film has nothing to do with how they will behave with me.

So at this point - just talking - how much do you think you might
be able to spend on advertising?
Click to expand...

This was my preliminary calc about two days ago when I thought I was going to rent one theater.

Theater Cost per evening 500
Film Cost (fee to filmmaker) 150
Advertizing 1000

Total Costs 1650

Average Ticket Price 5

Breakeven Ticket Sales 330 tickets to sell


This was my preliminary calculation for one evening. I was thinking of spreading it over three nights. I thought I'd be able to get the theater for three nights for $1000 if I negotiated hard enough. Maybe even less. And then I thought if I spent $1500 on advertising, it would be a good spread over 3 nights. Additional $350 incidental costs. $150 guarantee to the filmmaker whose film I show even if I don't make money.

So my initial budget was $3000. If I got a good enough film that I thought I could market, I was gonna do it. But I didn't believe I was going to get about 600 people to come see it to make up the 3000 at $5 a pop. That 330 number, to make up for $1650 at $5/ticket was a very sobering number.

Now, my thinking is changing a bit. After thinking more about the body language of the managers at the theaters, I think if I spend $1500 on advertising, I might be able to get both the places for a ticket sale split. That is the "feeling" I have now after going over their body language in my head.

If I get movies that I think are genuinely marketable, but just has been overlooked for whatever reason, I'd spend $2000 advertising for ticket sale splits. If I made back $1000, it would still be a pretty good experience for me and I probably would enjoy it. I've recently lost $650 at the casino in Niagara Falls (Godddddddamnit). I wouldn't mind losing $1000 in this fashion.

Let me know if any of the calcs seem wierd or complete fantasy to you.
 
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trueindie said:
The reason I was thinking along those lines is that two of the theaters offered me that option. I think the final decision is going to be made on the quality of the movies I end up getting, maybe. If I get something that the theaters think is awesome, maybe they'd be more willing to do something like that. Then again, maybe quality of the film has nothing to do with how they will behave with me.



This was my preliminary calc about two days ago when I thought I was going to rent one theater.

Theater Cost per evening 500
Film Cost (fee to filmmaker) 150
Advertizing 1000

Total Costs 1650

Average Ticket Price 5

Breakeven Ticket Sales 330 tickets to sell


This was my preliminary calculation for one evening. I was thinking of spreading it over three nights. I thought I'd be able to get the theater for three nights for $1000 if I negotiated hard enough. Maybe even less. And then I thought if I spent $1500 on advertising, it would be a good spread over 3 nights. Additional $350 incidental costs. $150 guarantee to the filmmaker whose film I show even if I don't make money.

So my initial budget was $3000. If I got a good enough film that I thought I could market, I was gonna do it. But I didn't believe I was going to get about 600 people to come see it to make up the 3000 at $5 a pop. That 330 number, to make up for $1650 at $5/ticket was a very sobering number.

Now, my thinking is changing a bit. After thinking more about the body language of the managers at the theaters, I think if I spend $1500 on advertising, I might be able to get both the places for a ticket sale split. That is the "feeling" I have now after going over their body language in my head.

If I get movies that I think are genuinely marketable, but just has been overlooked for whatever reason, I'd spend $2000 advertising for ticket sale splits. If I made back $1000, it would still be a pretty good experience for me and I probably would enjoy it. I've recently lost $650 at the casino in Niagara Falls (Godddddddamnit). I wouldn't mind losing $1000 in this fashion.

Let me know if any of the calcs seem wierd or complete fantasy to you.
Click to expand...

I think getting 330 people into the theater is a gross overestimate when you're only spending $1000 on advertising. I really do hope I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.
 
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SinEater said:
I think getting 330 people into the theater is a gross overestimate when you're only spending $1000 on advertising. I really do hope I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.
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I don't think you're wrong. I think you're right. That's why I said that the 330 number was a sobering one. It made me come to my senses about the fact that I was going to lose money.

That's why I changed my idea to advertising with $2000 and no rent fees for the theaters, but a ticket split.

Even then I think getting people in is going to be a challenge. I might want to talk to a few more theaters. If I spent money only on advertising and went with ticket splits with everybody, it might be a bit more feasible to break even.
 
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Feutus Lapdance said:
Wat about this idea...
Swat a empty building (or foodbalfield in Summer)

Free entrence....but Guests are not allowed to bring own drinks. Sel bear and other stuff for half the price theaters do. Would this make some mony? Jou can even combine this wit some artistic performences and Indie Rockbands or obscure DJ,s....
Click to expand...

As another poster said, this is not a bad idea.
 
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Advertising is always tough, particularly if you're doing something outside of the norm. However, make sure you hit up all the coffee shops in the area with flyers. That's your crowd, right there. With music, I always did pretty well with 1/4 sheet handbill flyers...something people can take with them. Combining film screenings with music isn't a bad idea either; that opens up not only theaters, but music venues as well (and with a lot of bands, they'll have a draw too). The only draw back is people going out to see a band, and going to see a film aren't necessarily in the same headspace; it might be hard for people to change gears. The film crowd might not want to stick around for the band, and vice versa.

Still, I like Feutus' idea of the squat/neo-rave event; could be awesome if you pull it off.
 
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Advertising is your most important part. Not even the film you
choose is as essential. If you need 350 to pay $5 to see a movie
they know nothing about, made by people they know nothing about
starring actors they have never heard of you have to put together
one hell of an advertising campaign.

Turn it around on yourself. What would it take to get you to into
that theater? Not just you, but at least one - better yet three -
friends?

A flyer on your car? A blog? Knowing that the director will Skype
with the audience after the screening? A director you have never
heard of.

I’m thinking you will need at least two weeks of massive
advertising before the screening. And that will eat up even $2,000
really fast.

I’m not liking the “neo-rave” aspect. Sure you can get people to
show up for something like that, but that isn’t exactly sticking
with the thought that people are going to see a movie. So many of
the suggestions seem to be putting the film second or third and
making money/getting a lot of people to show up first. If the goal
is to throw an event to make money then these ideas seem great.
Getting a band to plat and selling food seems as if the film
itself isn’t the draw - which may very well be the case. But I can
say I wouldn’t want my film as afterthought of a neo-rave event
with bands food and drinks.

Don’t get me wrong - anyone wanting to put together a rave type of
event is doing a great thing and it could be not only a lot of fun
but could bring in some money. But it isn’t exactly promoting
independent films by showing them in a local theater.
 
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directorik said:
Advertising is your most important part. Not even the film you
choose is as essential. If you need 350 to pay $5 to see a movie
they know nothing about, made by people they know nothing about
starring actors they have never heard of you have to put together
one hell of an advertising campaign.

Turn it around on yourself. What would it take to get you to into
that theater? Not just you, but at least one - better yet three -
friends?

A flyer on your car? A blog? Knowing that the director will Skype
with the audience after the screening? A director you have never
heard of.

I’m thinking you will need at least two weeks of massive
advertising before the screening. And that will eat up even $2,000
really fast.
Click to expand...

I've been reading more about fourwalling. It appears that some people do make some money, not necessarily by getting an audience through spending on advertising, but just by providing content to independent theaters for their matinee time slots. The theater has something to show and keeps the food sales, and splits the ticket sales. The matinee goers seem to come because they're regulars, not because they recognize cast or crew, which I thought was interesting.

You're absolutely right. I was thinking about the last time I patronized a no name indie with no notable cast or crew. I can't bloody remember. So that's the problem. Maybe nobody advertised them to me. Or maybe they did, and I didn't notice. I don't know which.

I also agree that $2000 is not that much. So maybe I should concentrate the money on printing posters of the films I'm showing, if the matinee / ticket split route is chosen. Also I was thinking of advertising the releasing brand, such as "A Toronto Picture Company release" or some thing like that, so that every time I release something, and if it is good, people associate the good movies with TPC and over time the advertising is more effective. It's not another indie movie but antoher TPC release...


I’m not liking the “neo-rave” aspect. Sure you can get people to
show up for something like that, but that isn’t exactly sticking
with the thought that people are going to see a movie. So many of
the suggestions seem to be putting the film second or third and
making money/getting a lot of people to show up first. If the goal
is to throw an event to make money then these ideas seem great.
Getting a band to plat and selling food seems as if the film
itself isn’t the draw - which may very well be the case. But I can
say I wouldn’t want my film as afterthought of a neo-rave event
with bands food and drinks.

Don’t get me wrong - anyone wanting to put together a rave type of
event is doing a great thing and it could be not only a lot of fun
but could bring in some money. But it isn’t exactly promoting
independent films by showing them in a local theater.
Click to expand...

Dont worry about the rave idea. I think Feutus was injecting a new idea. I think it could be a great idea. It's not for me. I wouldn't know how to start organizing something like that. I'm sticking to ailing and independent theaters patronized by the elderly or local folk.

Best,
aveek
 
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also keep in mind if you four-wall a theatre, aside from the costs to rent the theatre, almost all venues will require that you have insurance for the event/screening. That can add $250 on up.
 
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I'll yell it once more, 4 walling + concession revenue. If theater owners can't make money with out popcorn, why should we be different? It's not rocket science to run a popcorn machine. If I had a film playing I'd be absolutely willing to sell RedHots and Bon Bons. Depending just on tickets sales revenue seems hopeless. If you've got the concessions, you can sell the tickets cheaper. You can tie in concession products to the film, Zombie Popcorn (red dye streaks or whatever.)

Also, if you control the venue, you can run shorts too, adding value.
 
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Four walling is not controlling the venue. I suppose some theater
owners would allow you to remove all of their inventory and replace
it with your own - would allow you to bring in the ticket sellers and
concession workers and even the projectionist and do all the clean
up after the screening. But now you are taking on a lot more
expense - far beyond renting the venue for a night.

When you rent a theater you fully control the content on the screen
- you can shot features, shorts, cartoons; anything you want. In my
experience I have never heard of a theater owner allowing the renter
to control the entire venue including the workers for the night and all
concessions. But anything is possible.

If you have purchased all the concessions I suspect you won't sell
every item during the run of the movie. I wonder if that would cut
into the cheaper ticket price reducing the overall profit.
 
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About concessions. Popcorn and Soda (from canisters) are 90-95% profit. So every dollar of sales is about 90 cents of profit. There should be no issue with manpower as presumably every film has at a least a skeleton crew behind it.
About stocks, presumably you'd invest in this as a traveling show of sorts, starting local and fanning out when or if the good word spreads.
A playhouse might be the best place actually, as a movie theater owner probably wouldn't be excited to give away concessions.
If the filmmakers could establish themselves as a non profit, that'd make getting around health department permits and requirements extremely easy.
Just some ideas...
 
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Hey guys. Been away for a bit. I just got back from a ten day vacation from New Jersey. Ten days with family. It was driving me nuts by the end. Thank goodness for the endless racket created by my niece and nephew. They kept me entertained. Not to mention Occupy Wall Street across the water in NYC. It was beautiful.

Some good points there Brian. Rik is right. I don't plan to take on too much responsibility such as providing bonbons and performing cleanup. But what your points make me feel, is that I do have more leverage with these theaters than would seem at first. They do have something to gain by showing a free movie: profit making bonbon sales.

Sonny: I just arrived home today and got your dvd in the mail. I plan to watch it this weekend. Much, much, much thanks. I view your sharing of your movie as a gift. I truly appreciate it. I hope I'm able to do something with it.

Best,
Aveek
 
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trueindie said:
- Any ideas on how to make sure that I procure movies that actually have good enough production value at least in terms of sound.
Click to expand...
See?

Without even pushing you are getting screeners to look at. If you
were to put out an official notice on five messageboards and on
the usual social media outlets you will have thousands of movies
to look at. Then you choose the few you will actually show.

You will soon get a good feel of what the distributors face. Thousands
movies to choose from. And now YOU make the decision what films
actually have good enough production value at least in terms of sound.
 
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Sonnyboo: Watched your film. Nice work. I will be taking it to one of the theaters this week. Probably Wednesday or Thursday. Haven't watched the 'making of' portion yet. Kind of psyched about watching it.

Ctbehrens: Hey man. Send over the movie. I'll pm you my address. Trailer looks cool. Makes me wonder if the brother is real or in his head.

Direktorik: Yeah. I'm surprised I got a second offer. I was thinking Sonnyboo would be it. I started working more on my own scripts as a result, which is not a bad thing. I hope I'm able to build up some momentum. I hope the theater owners like the idea of getting the films.
 
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