Anybody know how to purchase the rights to a song? Yes, I googled it. But there are only generalizations when googled. The song I want is by Nat King Cole. It's not a song that's known by everybody, but it's Nat King Cole. I don't want a recording, just rights to the written music. Anyone care to speculate as to how I might pull this off, and maybe throw out a ballpark figure for cost? I realize that the only way to find out is to just contact the publisher, and I plan to do that. Also, is there a better way to contact a publisher?
Purchasing song rights
- Thread starter Cracker Funk
- Start date
I appreciate your concern, but in my experience, directors do most of, if not all of, their directorial communications face-to-face. Maybe I'm not the best at communicating in a forum. I don't mind admitting guilt there. But that doesn't really have much to do with the job of a director.
It does, however, have to do with the job of a producer. And perhaps that is why it'd be a good idea for me to pass along the duties of online communication, at least so far as production is concerned, to another person. That doesn't mean I'll stop posting on this forum, but perhaps any official emails, that sort of thing, should come from someone else. Maybe. I'll give it some thought.
Either way, thanks for the advice and thanks for the well-wishes! And just to clarify, it's not a post-credit scene; it's an end-credits sequence. Kinda like an opening-credits sequence, but at the end. And it'll be so much fun! I really hope I can pull it off. The movie won't be ruined without it, but it sure would be some sweet icing on the cake.
... department heads or any job where your crew have to be on the same page... or even your recruiting on this forum etc... or that email to the music supplier...
The way I see it, you have a particular style. It's positive. It's infectious. It'll motivate certain people. The problem is direction. Your style is haphazard. "I need this song or else it all falls apart" is far from what you intended to say. In another thread, "Deferred" is different to profit share (or was it equity?) and so on. While the meaning was eventually understood, it took days for that understanding to be reached. If you aren't as sloppy with your wording in real life, perhaps it shouldn't be a concern. If you are...
So while you may be able to delegate to a producer, the real question then becomes how clear will the execution be. How will your producer understand when you say deferred, you really mean profit share? What then happens when they follow your exact wishes instead of interpret what you really mean. How will shooting work if you ask for a couple 1k's instead of a couple 5k hmi's. What if it's even more problematic?
I guess we'll go wish an Aussie saying, "She'll be right mate" ?? or "we'll fix it in post"
For post credit sequences. They can really help drive home the feeling of a film and increase referrals. Hangover did a great job of this. I hope you pull it off.
I get what you're saying, Sweetie, and I appreciate it. And you're correct, it isn't just the producer who needs to be able to make their intentions clear via email. As far as the other thread is concerned, my model is profit-sharing, but I just compared it to deferred. The two things are definitely different, but I think there are big similarities.
Anyway, yeah, the end-credit scene can be used to great effect. I love the end-credits of Hangover. Rage of the Fire has a very strong theme. Like, I'm flirting with the danger of people labeling it a Message Movie. I definitely don't want it to be a Message Movie, cuz those movies are boring as shit. I'm trying my best to walk that thin line between clearly trying to say something without beating it over people's heads. My goal is to get people thinking and talking, I definitely don't want them to feel like they were just delivered a lesson or a lecture.
The end-credits sequence would be a fun way of driving the point home. Like, if you didn't get what the point of the movie was, by watching the movie, then the end-credits will explicitly spell it out for you, but in a way that is playful and fun, and therefore not a lecture or lesson. Does that make sense?
Anyway, yeah, the end-credit scene can be used to great effect. I love the end-credits of Hangover. Rage of the Fire has a very strong theme. Like, I'm flirting with the danger of people labeling it a Message Movie. I definitely don't want it to be a Message Movie, cuz those movies are boring as shit. I'm trying my best to walk that thin line between clearly trying to say something without beating it over people's heads. My goal is to get people thinking and talking, I definitely don't want them to feel like they were just delivered a lesson or a lecture.
The end-credits sequence would be a fun way of driving the point home. Like, if you didn't get what the point of the movie was, by watching the movie, then the end-credits will explicitly spell it out for you, but in a way that is playful and fun, and therefore not a lecture or lesson. Does that make sense?
I believe it does.
I believe in levels when it comes to writing/storytelling. Where you don't need to understand every meaning to enjoy the film. Either way, there's always a fine line to walk. The line between the audience failing to be understood and whacking them over the head with a mallet. I'm currently of the opinion of skirting the line of being misunderstood but don't go too far, but also have levels. An easy to understand story that can be easily followed by those not paying attention, and deeper threads that can mean different things to different people, but can also add a deeper meaning to your story though if not understood won't make the main story less enjoyable.
Tough to get right.
Have you considered a sound-alike? If you just need everyone to "think" of that particular song once it starts playing, you'd be surprised what a sound-alike can do for you.
HOLY SHIT, I GOT IT!!! I don't want to publicly share the amount the publisher and I agreed to, but it's totally affordable. I only negotiated the right to use this song for festivals, for the duration of one year. Should we acquire distribution, or should we choose to self-distribute, we'll have to negotiate a new fee for perpetual rights to the song. But at least for the immediate needs of the festival-run, I got it!
WOOOHOOOOOOO!!!!!
WOOOHOOOOOOO!!!!!
Damn, why you gotta throw shade? I just landed a huge victory, and your response is a mix of sarcasm and pessimism. And yes, you're seeing it wrong - there ain't 10,000 people doing what I'm doing. Gee, really, you wonder why I didn't negotiate perpetual rights? Idunno, maybe it has something to do with the TINY BUDGET?!
That's awesome! Congrats!
If it didn't work out, I was going to second dready's suggestion. For the sake of argument, if you identified what it was you liked about the song...the lyrical content, the arrangement/tone of the song, the general shape of the melody, etc. If you can figure out what it is that you liked and/or would make the scene punch the way you want, then going to a composer or indie band to have them do a sound-alike could work well. It's never anyone's favorite job, but it can be an affordable solution if getting the real deal is out of your price range. Glad to hear that in this case it isn't.
I also understand paying for what you need, when you need it. If you get somewhere with the film, then invest a bit more. And if it doesn't, well, replacing it with a sound-alike to be in the clear to share it after your festival run.
If it didn't work out, I was going to second dready's suggestion. For the sake of argument, if you identified what it was you liked about the song...the lyrical content, the arrangement/tone of the song, the general shape of the melody, etc. If you can figure out what it is that you liked and/or would make the scene punch the way you want, then going to a composer or indie band to have them do a sound-alike could work well. It's never anyone's favorite job, but it can be an affordable solution if getting the real deal is out of your price range. Glad to hear that in this case it isn't.
I also understand paying for what you need, when you need it. If you get somewhere with the film, then invest a bit more. And if it doesn't, well, replacing it with a sound-alike to be in the clear to share it after your festival run.
Thanks, Josh! You rock, both literally and literally.
The song I just acquired is one that can't be replicated. I mean, imagine if I told you that you need to reproduce "New York, New York", but technically you have to make a new song, do something that is stylistically similar. You couldn't do it, and that's obviously not a slight on you. There's only one "New York, New York", and if you need that song you need that song. I just got that song (not "New York, New York", but the one I need for my production), and it was waaaaaayyyy less expensive than we all imagined, haha.
Just don't let your team mates know the details of the deal. Only the foolish would now invest their time in a deal that only allows film festival distribution.
What happens when you have an MG for half a million and the agent for the song wants it all, if not more for the rights you now require? I'm not sure why you'd celebrate. If you pull off your miracle and get your best case scenario, a distribution offer, what's the plan to not get bent over a barrel?
So long as you asked for the option with an agreed upon price, all good. I don't see what your budget has to do with it. Having the option included in the initial agreement rarely costs more until you execute said option.
This is why I suggested going to the person whose job it is to protect your interests. With so many people trying to screw over indie filmmakers, why go so far to screw ourselves?
Lucky for you, the error is relatively small. If you do get distribution, it'll be easy enough to alter the closing credits and exclude the song. Perhaps you'll get lucky and they're just quoting from a chart and will continue to do so if you hit the jackpot. So grats on making the deal.
It would usually go without saying, but.... you did check that they in fact own the rights you need to purchase?
We've got two years until production begins. At what point do you stop trolling me?
If you knew the amount I negotiated the rights for, you wouldn't be making any of these "arguments". A middle school kid working at McDonald's could afford to pay the fee I just negotiated. Sure, you could say that I'm "screwing" myself by allowing there to be a mark-up when it comes time for distribution, but by then the end credits will have already done their job, and the mark-up will likely still be affordable.
Lucky for me, I've made no error, and the opinions of people who have no idea what they're talking about don't affect the production.
I'm sorry for lashing out just now, Sweetie. While I was walking my dogs a moment ago, I realized that your comments are given in my best interest, and/or the best interest of anybody reading. It's really nice of you to take the time to offer advice on this subject.
It just so happens that your advice doesn't have any real applications in this particular situation, but it was still nice of you to offer it.
You see, I'm working on a tiny budget. Like, practically nothing. The goal is to get the film into a prestigious film festival, and then hopefully we can roll that success into something bigger. And that is why we only need the rights to the song for a one-year festival run. Not that I need to justify myself to you, but I just wanted to let you know that while your advice is appreciated, it misses the point.
Which, by the way, the aforementioned goals for the movie is basically what I told the publishers of the song. I was simply honest in telling them about my film, the budget (or lack thereof), and what I except/hope to come of it. Although I previously mentioned "negotiations", there weren't any. All I did was let them know who I am and what I want to do with the song and they gave me a very affordable option.
Seeing as how everyone predicted I wouldn't be able to acquire the song rights, I'd think this new development is deserving of either a sincere congrats, or nothing at all. Remember that thing they taught us in kindergarten?
I realize you mean well in your comments, so I thank you for them, mis-guided though they may be.
It just so happens that your advice doesn't have any real applications in this particular situation, but it was still nice of you to offer it.
You see, I'm working on a tiny budget. Like, practically nothing. The goal is to get the film into a prestigious film festival, and then hopefully we can roll that success into something bigger. And that is why we only need the rights to the song for a one-year festival run. Not that I need to justify myself to you, but I just wanted to let you know that while your advice is appreciated, it misses the point.
Which, by the way, the aforementioned goals for the movie is basically what I told the publishers of the song. I was simply honest in telling them about my film, the budget (or lack thereof), and what I except/hope to come of it. Although I previously mentioned "negotiations", there weren't any. All I did was let them know who I am and what I want to do with the song and they gave me a very affordable option.
Seeing as how everyone predicted I wouldn't be able to acquire the song rights, I'd think this new development is deserving of either a sincere congrats, or nothing at all. Remember that thing they taught us in kindergarten?
I realize you mean well in your comments, so I thank you for them, mis-guided though they may be.
It's not for you. It's the same reason I occasionally reply to h44. If it stops some other filmmaker from making the same dumb move, it's well worth it. I figure since you cannot get the simple shit right, doesn't mean it's right to lead others off the same cliff.
Viva la revolution!
Yeah, I figured as much.
You're right to point out that I'm not getting the "simple shit" right. I mean, here I go securing the rights to a song by a very famous artist for the end-credits of a tiny-budget feature I haven't even finished writing. That's pretty simple, right? What a dumb move I just made.
And you're doing a good job by warning other filmmakers not to walk down my path. I mean, sure, I got the exact song I wanted, but others should be warned about the dangers of asking publishers for their permission to use their songs. Cuz, you know, they might say no. Or they might offer a price that is out of your reach.
Or, they might offer a price that is super affordable! Only way to find out is to ask.
Cracker, maybe you better send a copy of the contract, with the video, to the festivals? Otherwise some concerned member of the jury decides to be a hero when he thinks you might don't have the rights and disqualifies your film, to keep you out of trouble. People tend to be like that and some are proud to be like that.
Thanks, I appreciate the advice. In my experience, though, that's totally not necessary. A filmmaker definitely needs to keep records of their copyright clearances, but no festival has ever asked me for proof of clearance. As I understand it, the clearance is to protect the filmmaker, not the festival (in fact, I've even had a festival producer tell me this).
Cheers!
Cool. I appreciate your concern. For real though, film fests don't check on those sorts of things. And apparently, the contract I have with the publisher isn't even slightly unlikely. I thought it was. We thought it was. But it turned out to be incredibly easy to get exactly the song I wanted. There were no negotiations, no back-and-forth talks. All I did was ask, and they were like, "sure, here ya go!"
When I asked Pabst Brewing to allow me to use the logos of PBR and Colt 45 in my first feature, a tiny-budget movie about an alcoholic thief, I didn't expect them to say "yes". They did.
Sometimes, you just gotta ask.