A lot of movies violate the seemless edit rule and jump cut, leading to a mismatch in continuity. A lot movies do this intentionally. There were a few times that I wanted to do it intentionally but everyone said that it didn't look right, or that it looks accidental rather than intentional. Yet Hollywood movies do it all the time, so what do they do different? I assume that there are rules, even when it comes to breaking the rules, therefore.
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Question about breaking the editing rules appropriately.
- Thread starter harmonica44
- Start date
Here's something I was told about screenwriting that I apply to much of filmmaking in general:
"Don't focus on finding where you can or can't break the rules. Instead, focus on following the rules, and pursue your craft. The more you improve, the more you'll notice which rules can be bent or broken, and where."
The feedback of your audience is some of the most important feedback you can get. If they're telling you that a cut/shot/line looks/sounds bad, don't tell them that it's okay, listen to them.
"Don't focus on finding where you can or can't break the rules. Instead, focus on following the rules, and pursue your craft. The more you improve, the more you'll notice which rules can be bent or broken, and where."
The feedback of your audience is some of the most important feedback you can get. If they're telling you that a cut/shot/line looks/sounds bad, don't tell them that it's okay, listen to them.
When it comes to breaking the rules...
If it works, you're a genius; if it doesn't, you're a pathetic, inexperienced, talentless hack.
If it works, you're a genius; if it doesn't, you're a pathetic, inexperienced, talentless hack.
.It does depend on what you're trying to achieve.
A purposely bad edit can jolt the audience and make them uncomfortable. There are circumstances where its right to do it, it just depends on the effect you're after or the emotion you're trying to elicit from your audience.
A jump cut in a Hollywood film can happen for a variety of reasons. In the whole process of shooting, editing, revision, re-editing, re-revision and so on, things can change or there may be a need to add something where you don't quite have the necessary coverage to make a seamless perfect sequence of edits.... And sometimes not enough footage was captured and the editor has to scramble do the best with what s/he has.... sometimes the director steps in and makes a poor change.... and sometimes, they just screw up. Just because Hollywood did it, doesn't make it right, it just means it happened.
I haven't noticed many jump cuts in larger Hollywood films recently. Where there any in particular you're talking about?
A purposely bad edit can jolt the audience and make them uncomfortable. There are circumstances where its right to do it, it just depends on the effect you're after or the emotion you're trying to elicit from your audience.
A jump cut in a Hollywood film can happen for a variety of reasons. In the whole process of shooting, editing, revision, re-editing, re-revision and so on, things can change or there may be a need to add something where you don't quite have the necessary coverage to make a seamless perfect sequence of edits.... And sometimes not enough footage was captured and the editor has to scramble do the best with what s/he has.... sometimes the director steps in and makes a poor change.... and sometimes, they just screw up. Just because Hollywood did it, doesn't make it right, it just means it happened.
I haven't noticed many jump cuts in larger Hollywood films recently. Where there any in particular you're talking about?
Well Bonnie and Clyde is one example where one cut does not match, and one seems to skip ahead:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGxn6lYtJ3M
The cut at 1:32 into the video. Clyde is holding a donut or something in front of him, but in the close up of him at the next cut, his moved back and we don't see it. Yet that's the way they decided to cut it.
There is also a scene from the same movie I could not find online. But when Clyde and Bonnie first meet they have a soda on the street and he shows her his gun. His head is turned in direction in one shot, and his matchstick is in his mouth, in a certain position held by the teeth. Cut to the next shot and his head is turned in a different position, with the matchstick in a different position, held by his lips.
The movie JFK also has a few jump cuts in the restaurant scene, when the DA and his people are going over evidence. I think this was done intentionally as the director as there a few of them.
If I think of any other examples I'll let you know. I will upload some of my edits later when I get home.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGxn6lYtJ3M
The cut at 1:32 into the video. Clyde is holding a donut or something in front of him, but in the close up of him at the next cut, his moved back and we don't see it. Yet that's the way they decided to cut it.
There is also a scene from the same movie I could not find online. But when Clyde and Bonnie first meet they have a soda on the street and he shows her his gun. His head is turned in direction in one shot, and his matchstick is in his mouth, in a certain position held by the teeth. Cut to the next shot and his head is turned in a different position, with the matchstick in a different position, held by his lips.
The movie JFK also has a few jump cuts in the restaurant scene, when the DA and his people are going over evidence. I think this was done intentionally as the director as there a few of them.
If I think of any other examples I'll let you know. I will upload some of my edits later when I get home.
I don't think there is any real concrete rule about jump cuts. It's definitely a stylistic choice, and it's something that can be very jarring for an audience, but a skilled editor knows the right moments that work for the scene. And not just jump cuts, but editing any kind of cut can be tricky. For instance, your cut might look bad, but if you move it one or 2 frames earlier or later, it could look just fine. It takes lots of practice to get good at editing.
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Audiences have definitely become accustomed to jump-cuts. The old rule of never having a jump-cut is just that -- an old rule that nobody follows any more.
The vast majority of the time, a jump-cut denotes passage of time. I'm sure there must be other uses, but at the moment, passage of time is the only "legit" reason I can think of for using a jump-cut.
Regardless, a jump-cut must be motivated. Whether you're using it for passage of time or some other creative reason, it has to serve a clear, specific purpose. And yes, it has to be an obvious cut. If it's subtle (which it sounds like yours is), you're audience is just going to think it's a sloppy edit, and they probably won't get the reason behind your using it.
If you post the cut you've made, that'd make it incredibly easier for us to comment on it specifically.
The vast majority of the time, a jump-cut denotes passage of time. I'm sure there must be other uses, but at the moment, passage of time is the only "legit" reason I can think of for using a jump-cut.
Regardless, a jump-cut must be motivated. Whether you're using it for passage of time or some other creative reason, it has to serve a clear, specific purpose. And yes, it has to be an obvious cut. If it's subtle (which it sounds like yours is), you're audience is just going to think it's a sloppy edit, and they probably won't get the reason behind your using it.
If you post the cut you've made, that'd make it incredibly easier for us to comment on it specifically.
There aren't jump cuts, they're continuity errors. Unfortunately that's usually the responsibility of the script supervisor. They're the ones who job is to partially ensure the script is followed, and the props/clothes/actors positions and many other things.... match from one shot to another. They usually have other tasks too.
And actually, there's not a continuity error in that particular shot. If you look closely, the apple (not a doughnut) he's holding in his hand gets hit by a bullet and basically explodes, therefore it's not shown in the next shot...
I've always found that the edit will "tell" you what it wants next... on set your job is to capture enough footage to feed that want when it's asked for... and then make creative adjustments afterward when you found you haven't captured what you need for the edit monster's hunger.
We've all watched enough films and tv that we know when something is not right when watching through an edited piece. Trust that you know when it's right... although sometimes when soaking in it for so long, you need to show someone who hasn't seen it and get their impressions - preferably someone who can tell you what parts feel off to them.
We've all watched enough films and tv that we know when something is not right when watching through an edited piece. Trust that you know when it's right... although sometimes when soaking in it for so long, you need to show someone who hasn't seen it and get their impressions - preferably someone who can tell you what parts feel off to them.
Okay thanks. I actually deleted a lot of my old edits that I was told did not work before. But I will look for more examples.
You say we know what looks weird from watching other movies, but a lot of times some thing that looks not right too me, do not to others. I thought the Bourne Ultimatum was edited pretty questionably, yet it was a big hit movie for example. I hear the new Taken film has quite the editing too it, and a lot of people found it be off.
In a lot of movies when you have a conversation between two characters, usually the camera is on whoever is speaking, and they will only show a reaction, of the other character, during significant moments. What if I edited a whole movie where it's the opposite. Most of the shots are of the non-speaking character and just showing reacting, and we have only a few shots of the speakers, when I feel it's emotionally called for. But it will be the opposite of most movies. Imagine your favorite movie, with the shots switched around and for all the speaking shots, you have reaction shots, and vice versa
But does it break the rules in a way, that is punish-able?
You say we know what looks weird from watching other movies, but a lot of times some thing that looks not right too me, do not to others. I thought the Bourne Ultimatum was edited pretty questionably, yet it was a big hit movie for example. I hear the new Taken film has quite the editing too it, and a lot of people found it be off.
In a lot of movies when you have a conversation between two characters, usually the camera is on whoever is speaking, and they will only show a reaction, of the other character, during significant moments. What if I edited a whole movie where it's the opposite. Most of the shots are of the non-speaking character and just showing reacting, and we have only a few shots of the speakers, when I feel it's emotionally called for. But it will be the opposite of most movies. Imagine your favorite movie, with the shots switched around and for all the speaking shots, you have reaction shots, and vice versa
But does it break the rules in a way, that is punish-able?
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That's true. I wonder if that's a reason why that movie did not receive as well, or probably just not as good of advertising.
This sounds really interesting, I'm going to watch it today.
Maybe worth mentioning: Dogtooth is another example of an interesting way to shoot a film. Almost all of the visual camera framing in that movie is unconventional. Even to the point that you often don't see the actors' mouths or faces when they're speaking.
Usually in movies they cut a dialogue scene like this. They will start out with seeing a person talk, the cut to the next person, as she listens. What if I cut a whole five minute scene, where you don't see anyone speak, not even at the start of a cut, before cutting away. Just a whole five minute scene of reaction shots, without even a beginning of someone speaking in a shot? Would this be acceptable to an audience or is it a risk to ruin a movie, and ruin a good impression?