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Does the audience need to know, or can I just imply?

In my script the villains kill a cop and the main character cop is angry about it and wants justice. The district attorney does not want to prosecute, because there is not enough evidence against the villains, so he feels it would be a waste of money.

So the cop ends up blackmailing the DA into prosecuting the suspects. However, I am not sure how to go about writing this. If the cop is going to blackmail a DA into prosecuting an 'evidence-less' case, what's the point if a jury will not convict, right? There has to be just enough evidence for the cop to think it has a chance, but not too much evidence cause I need the DA to not prosecute it in the first place.

Basically the cop who is killed, is shot to death in a shoot out. The main cop, also in the shoot out, then has to pretty much take the body, and escape with it, so the crooks cannot have the chance to get rid of it. Once he escapes he then puts the body somewhere, where it can be found, but wipes away his own evidence of being there.

The cop who survived cannot testify himself cause he was not suppose to be there, which is why he left the body somewhere and takes off. But even if he said he was there, his testimony could legally be used anyway.

I originally wrote it so that the surviving cop takes the crooks hostage at gunpoint and forces them to plant evidence. He gets one to spit on the dead body, one to bleed on the it, and one to sign a their gang name on it.

Then what happens is, is that the DA does not prosecute because the investigators tell him that the evidence of the spit, blood and signature, were actually planted by someone else, and not by the gang of crooks themselves. Someone forced the gang to plant the evidence, so the prosecutor does not charge the gang. So the cop learns that his framing of the gang has come off as incompetent, and the DA can tell it was a frame, he then blackmails the DA.

Is this scenario better? That was the original one I wrote, but my friend said she didn't believe it after reading it, because she thinks that a DA would take on evidence even if it could have been planted, and how could they tell really? What do you think, is that more plausible, and I should stick to the original idea?

Or should I just write it so that the body is found, but the DA says there is not enough evidence, and that's all he says. The audience does not need to hear anything more, and the cop blackmails him anyway, even though the audience does not know what kind of faith the cop has, based on evidence whatever evidence there is to go forward with even?

Thanks for the input!
 
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Okay thanks. I never saw Lethal Weapon as a revenge film though. The guys who killed his wife, are not in the first movie, and he and Murtaugh, are rescuing their kidnapped daughter, so it's more of a protecting your loved ones survival thriller. At least that's how I always saw it.
I am speaking more generally about motivation. What would make a "good cop" want to seek revenge. A good writer needs to develop the skill to look beyond the details to see the layout and actions. Cars can look different in shape or just vary in color. However, it's what's under the hood and the bells & whistles that make for performance.

You get hung up looking at the exteriors. You build your 'car' by patching together pieces. Then when they don't hold together, try to use duct tape and putty. Then you ask if it looks better in black or red. What you need to do is focus on your purpose determine if you want a truck, jeep, SUV, sports car, etc. That will help you decide what you can customize under the hood and on the interior. The paint job is the last thing you need to worry about.

Your film sounds to me like a "survival thriller". Your cop has abandoned everything in a blind pursuit to exact vengeance against ?? because he/they ??. Now he's on the run from his own force and the bad guy(s). In the end, he fails because he choose to ?? and ends up losing ?? while the bad guys end up with ??.

In comparing my script to Taken though, Taken ends on a more positive note, with the revenge being successful, where as my story ends with the antihero failing and ends up being persecuted. So I consider the tone quite different from Taken, if that's okay, genre wise. Plus I don't want it to be a one man show in the end, cause his accomplices play a vital role in his final decision making, if that's okay.
"Taken" and "Lethal Weapon"(s) are "hero's journey" tales. "Gladiator" is also a revenge plot following a hero's journey. In a hero's journey, the hero tends to come back victorious (though not necessarily without great sacrifice). In the "Anti-hero's Journey", there is a continuing moral spiral downward--the descent of Anakin to Vader. In the end, the Anti-Hero needs to make their own final decision to seal his/her fate. Both Hero and Anti-Hero Journeys follow an individual or a team from start to finish. If you want to end with a team, you need to start with a team.

"A man seeking revenge for a horrible wrong, finds in the process he's become the monster." In the hero's journey, he sacrifices himself and finds redemption. In the anti-hero's journey, he embraces it and consummates his new life. At the end of the Anti-Hero's Journey, a villain is born. An example is Michael Corleone's rise in "The Godfather".

Watching a film about a guy seeking revenge, being chased and ultimately being unsuccessful sounds rather lame, doesn't it? There's no comeuppance for the bad guys. The main character isn't particularly good either and fails worse than the bad guys. 'Following' is not the same as 'caring for' in this story. I'd wonder why I wasted my money. I would really question that ending.

Building tension then ending with an emotionally unsatisfying conclusion will turn off an audience. There are films I would never refer others to see because the endings leave you raw. Despite personal tastes of some writers and directors, the vast majority of movie viewers want closure and emotionally satisfying resolution. If Commodus had slain Maximus and lived, the film would be meaningless. If Palpatine had simply left charbroiled Anakin to die, it would have been very unfulfilling. Whether for good or evil, audiences want to see a 'winner' at the end that they have followed and relate to.
 
I'm not sure how you go about your screenplays Harmonica, but have you tried just writing the whole film as if you're writing a novel? Write it all out from beginning to end. Then look at the end of the story and backtrack to the beginning and figure out if what ends up happening matches what came before. Deconstruct the story.
 
Okay thanks. What I usually do before writing the script is write a treatment of every scene, and what happens in them. I come up with the story first, and then come up with what the scenes should be to best express it.

FantasySciFi you say that if I want to end in a team, I need to start with a team. But why is it that I cannot have a lone antihero who starts out alone, and then builds a team as he goes along? I think that would work better cause it would take more time to get others motivated, rather than have other people snap at the same time as him in the beginning, ready to follow him immediately. That's just what I think though, unless I am wrong of course.

Basically the ending is a tragedy ending. He learns his lesson but too late. If I can make that work, I am still coming up with the new story. But there are movies where the revenge is unsuccessful for the antihero, that still have a lot of fans aren't there? Oldboy did that, or is that not a good example cause a lot of audiences were disappointed in that movie as well?
 
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FantasySciFi you say that if I want to end in a team, I need to start with a team. But why is it that I cannot have a lone antihero who starts out alone, and then builds a team as he goes along? I think that would work better cause it would take more time to get others motivated, rather than have other people snap at the same time as him in the beginning, ready to follow him immediately. That's just what I think though, unless I am wrong of course.

The audience follows the protagonist, which may be an individual or a group, throughout the story. The group can be brought together in the beginning and then work as a unit, a la Avengers. A hero's journey is typically a personal journey. There can be supporters but it is the protagonist who starts and ends the story. This is a genre issue. The only instance I can think of would be the Spartacus plot. In that case, Spartacus is a lone protagonist who finally must choose between identifying himself or watching others die. He sacrifices himself. Others inspired by him, step forward claiming to be Spartacus. This is genre specific. His sacrifice leads to group identification. I suppose the anti-hero could also die with the formation of a new crime organization. But the other genre elements don't really match your story, so I think it's a poor fit. Normally the people who rally behind him are like him. In your case, they would be police officers. However, they're also the ones who are persecuting him, so it doesn't work.

Basically the ending is a tragedy ending. He learns his lesson but too late. If I can make that work, I am still coming up with the new story. But there are movies where the revenge is unsuccessful for the antihero, that still have a lot of fans aren't there? Oldboy did that, or is that not a good example cause a lot of audiences were disappointed in that movie as well?
Oldboy is one of the movies I'd never refer a friend to see. The ending is emotionally unsatisfying. Why watch all the brutality and aha-gotcha's to get to that rather lame ending? Not a successful film in my opinion.

Nothing I'm telling you is set in stone. I'm not preaching this from a mountain that this is what you must do. I don't want other readers to take away that idea either. What I am saying is that in my experience and opinion, these guidelines make for more successful movies. You can write it however you like. Genres have certain market appeal demographics. The more you mix them up, the more you dilute the appeal. Films with tragic endings usually don't have as much appeal (dog dies). Some are melodramatic that use positive to balance the negative (dog dies, but we learn she had puppies). Most are upbeat (the dog looked dead but comes bounding back, tail wagging).

If you can make your "good cop seeks revenge and transforms to a bad ex-cop who rallies police supporters but loses everything in the end" story feel believable, then more power to you. I get the feeling you purposely try to buck genre elements to make a statement. What you are doing is undermining your market appeal by sabotaging your genre plots not being clever.

When you say "If I can make it work ..." what you are saying is "I know it's not supposed to work that way but ...". Stop there, kick yourself in the butt and say, "Yeah, let's not go there just yet." Keep the first draft simple. You can go back and think about what-ifs after the straightforward if seemingly boring draft is done first. That version will always be a workable draft.
 
Okay thanks. And yes, I would for sure want people to like the script. Since my premise is very dark (it's about a cop battling vigilantes who are getting revenge for being persecuted cause of their mental conditions), I feel that ending on a more positive and successful note for the audience, might be too much of a shift in tone. I mean I feel that a semi-happy closure for the hero, may betray the audience but in the opposite direction, if that makes sense.

They may say, why does this dark movie about such revenge crimes from the villains, end more positively for the hero's revenge? It may come off as double-standardish, but not sure.

I am wanting to do what people say, have the hero's decisions be natural. I have seen several movies though where I felt the hero made unnatural decisions just so something specific can happen that the filmmakers thought would be more thrilling. i.e. in The Dark Knight, Batman could have just taken out the Joker's truck tires immediately with his motorcycle guns but chooses to keep chasing him for five more minutes, probably just to have chase. Things like that in thrillers.

But I will still do what you say and try to have the hero make the most natural decisions. First I have to start with why he wants to kill the villains, instead of waiting to see how a future trial will go. Perhaps I can structure it so that he feels that the villain will harm others while they are still out there, so it's more about protecting the public then just revenge only.

As far as him having help from others, the accomplices are not in it as much, they just help him a little here and there, so it's mostly him if that works better. But I am still mapping out new ideas. His accomplices are not cops, and the cops are still after him cause they fear he will kill out of revenge, which makes me have to answer two questions.

1. How do the cops find out he is planning to likely go ahead with revenge.

2. How do they go after him for it, when he hasn't committed any crime yet, but just out of likeliness that they fear he will.

If I can answer these two questions then I can go with this particular story arc, but I would like the antihero to have another obstacle than just the villain.
 
Okay thanks. And yes, I would for sure want people to like the script. Since my premise is very dark (it's about a cop battling vigilantes who are getting revenge for being persecuted cause of their mental conditions), I feel that ending on a more positive and successful note for the audience, might be too much of a shift in tone. I mean I feel that a semi-happy closure for the hero, may betray the audience but in the opposite direction, if that makes sense.

They may say, why does this dark movie about such revenge crimes from the villains, end more positively for the hero's revenge? It may come off as double-standardish, but not sure.
It's not about the vigilantes (antagonist), it's about the cop (protagonist). What happens to him is what concerns the audience. Whether the vigilantes win, lose or die is not a crucial as what happens with your cop. The focus is Batman. Whether the Joker dies or lives to fight another day is secondary. The Sith story is a good parallel for many anti-hero stories--the apprentice must kill the master. The ultimate transformation of the good cop to bad cop is when he destroys the vigilantes. In the anti-hero story success doesn't mean happy usually. However, for the audience there is some level of gut satisfaction.

I am wanting to do what people say, have the hero's decisions be natural. I have seen several movies though where I felt the hero made unnatural decisions just so something specific can happen that the filmmakers thought would be more thrilling. i.e. in The Dark Knight, Batman could have just taken out the Joker's truck tires immediately with his motorcycle guns but chooses to keep chasing him for five more minutes, probably just to have chase. Things like that in thrillers.
That's not a major plot element. Shooting out the tires or not doesn't affect the rest of the story. Now, if Batman decides to capture the mentally unstable Joker and force him to spit on a dead body of his last victim then lets him go so the cops can find it. Only they don't believe him. So Batman then blackmails Harry Dent to prosecute based on that evidence. Now we have some serious problems. Are those natural, realistic Batman decisions?

But I will still do what you say and try to have the hero make the most natural decisions. First I have to start with why he wants to kill the villains, instead of waiting to see how a future trial will go. Perhaps I can structure it so that he feels that the villain will harm others while they are still out there, so it's more about protecting the public then just revenge only.
The easiest way is to have the cop and his partner responsible for their original arrest for murder. Start with a courtroom scene where the jury comes back with a not guilty. The mentally incompetent gang then walks from a murder rap of a little girl. The cop could be so angered by this miscarriage of justice (he may have a daughter the same age), that he becomes obsessed with pursuing them. Or supply his own version of justice outside of the law.

As far as him having help from others, the accomplices are not in it as much, they just help him a little here and there, so it's mostly him if that works better. But I am still mapping out new ideas. His accomplices are not cops, and the cops are still after him cause they fear he will kill out of revenge, which makes me have to answer two questions.

1. How do the cops find out he is planning to likely go ahead with revenge.

Because he's constantly shooting his mouth off about it in the station. Using resources without approval. Using strong arm tactics that get him suspended. (his slow descent into madness)

2. How do they go after him for it, when he hasn't committed any crime yet, but just out of likeliness that they fear he will.

They don't. His best friend and others are concerned. Check up on him. That could be what leads his friend to being killed but not by the gang. That can be the straw the drives him over the edge. but you think very one dimensionally. What you need is a second story line where the buddy is re-examining the evidence and finds that the real killer of the girl was someone else.

If I can answer these two questions then I can go with this particular story arc, but I would like the antihero to have another obstacle than just the villain.

Now after 'successfully' killing the gang, it's revealed to the cop who the real killer was of the girl, who also happened to kill his partner. The gang's presence when his partner was killed was pure coincidence.
The cop is arrested for first degree murder. A dark end though he succeeded. The audience can feel for him (and the gang) but gets a sense of closure.
 
Okay thanks. The script is similar to how you describe. The gang gets off in court for the original crime, so the cop becomes angered and pursues them on his own. However, after the other cop is killed, what's his reason for still going after the gang? Now that they've killed a cop, they will surely be tried again for that murder, so it's a slam dunk now most likely, and the antihero can hold off on his vigiliantism, since they are going down now.

As long as he has enough motivation for to still continue pursuing them, after they kill the cop.
 
Okay thanks. The script is similar to how you describe. The gang gets off in court for the original crime, so the cop becomes angered and pursues them on his own. However, after the other cop is killed, what's his reason for still going after the gang? Now that they've killed a cop, they will surely be tried again for that murder, so it's a slam dunk now most likely, and the antihero can hold off on his vigiliantism, since they are going down now.

As long as he has enough motivation for to still continue pursuing them, after they kill the cop.
Re-read my advice:
2. How do they go after him for it, when he hasn't committed any crime yet, but just out of likeliness that they fear he will.

They don't. His best friend and others are concerned. Check up on him. That could be what leads his [cop buddy] friend to being killed but not by the gang. That can be the straw the drives him over the edge. but you think very one dimensionally. What you need is a second story line where the buddy is re-examining the evidence and finds that the real killer of the girl was someone else.

If I can answer these two questions then I can go with this particular story arc, but I would like the antihero to have another obstacle than just the villain.

Now after 'successfully' killing the gang, it's revealed to the cop who the real killer was of the girl, who also happened to kill his partner. The gang's presence when his partner was killed was pure coincidence. The cop is arrested for first degree murder. A dark end though he succeeded. The audience can feel for him (and the gang) but gets a sense of closure.
I'm happy to write your story for you if you want to pay me. Otherwise, you need to connect the dots.
 
Re-read my advice:

I'm happy to write your story for you if you want to pay me. Otherwise, you need to connect the dots.

Okay thanks. I don't know if I want any red herrings though, or villains that turn out not be part of the hero's goal. I am open to having one, if they serve the story, but are you saying that I should just have the killer turn out to be someone else, just to give the hero more motivation?
 
How about this for a new revenge story. The two main cops decide to go undercover into the gang without authorization and are doing it at their own risk. The gang discovers that the main cop's partner, is a cop, and they decide to have the main cop test their loyalty by executing him. They give him a gun with only one bullet in and the main cop cannot over power five armed men, with just one bullet.

He realizes that if he does not shoot his partner to death, that the gang will kill him and his partner, and one dead cop, is still not as bad as two. So he kills his partner, since he will not be able to stop it.

He then goes to his superiors, and tells them the truth about what happened. The superiors feel that it's his fault his partner died, since he decided to go on his own wild goose chase, and they want to charge him with it. But he feels it was the gang's fault for putting him in that position, so he goes after the gang himself while trying to avoid the police.

This gives him more motive for revenge, since his superiors would rather charge him than bring the gang to justice. It also gives the cops a reason to go after him which is what I want in my story. He has to get to the gang to get his revenge before the police stop him.

Another idea is, is that the two cops do get authorization to go undercover, and are doing it with orders. However, the gang finds out that the cop's partner is a cop, so they decide to stage a break in, of the residence of another character. The other character is also a member of the gang and is on it, but the cops do not know this. The guy who's residence is being broken into shoots the cop's partner, and the gang gets away with it, cause it looks like a break in gone bad. The owner claims to have killed the undercover cop is self defense, cause he was part of a break in, while undercover. But the owner is actually in on it with the gang, and this was their way of getting away with it. That way, since they get away with it, and are not charged, it gives the main cop more motive for revenge.

Do these new ideas work better, or are they unnatural, with holes as well?
 
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Harmonica wrote:
How about this for a new revenge story. The two main cops decide to go undercover into the gang without authorization and are doing it at their own risk. The gang discovers that the main cop's partner, is a cop, and they decide to have the main cop test their loyalty by executing him. They give him a gun with only one bullet in and the main cop cannot over power five armed men, with just one bullet. He realizes that if he does not shoot his partner to death, that the gang will kill him and his partner, and one dead cop, is still not as bad as two. So he kills his partner, since he will not be able to stop it.

This idea is sound to me. Both are in this mess, they both took the risks knowing that they were high.

He then goes to his superiors, and tells them the truth about what happened. The superiors feel that it's his fault his partner died, since he decided to go on his own wild goose chase, and they want to charge him with it. But he feels it was the gang's fault for putting him in that position, so he goes after the gang himself while trying to avoid the police.

They wouldn't just let him go without charging him. If he goes in to the station to admit what happened to his superiors they would just arrest him and put him into custody. So unless he tells them through some other means without physically being present, the idea of him admitting it, then walking freely doesn't gel.

Another idea is, is that the two cops do get authorization to go undercover, and are doing it with orders. However, the gang finds out that the cop's partner is a cop, so they decide to stage a break in, of the residence of another character. The other character is also a member of the gang and is on it, but the cops do not know this. The guy who's residence is being broken into shoots the cop's partner, and the gang gets away with it, cause it looks like a break in gone bad. The owner claims to have killed the undercover cop is self defense, cause he was part of a break in, while undercover. But the owner is actually in on it with the gang, and this was their way of getting away with it. That way, since they get away with it, and are not charged, it gives the main cop more motive for revenge.

Do these new ideas work better, or are they unnatural, with holes as well?

I'd go for the set up you had for the first idea - two cops go undercover without authorisation, one is discovered to be a cop, the other is forced to shoot him.
 
Okay thanks. However, I don't really personally like this idea I don't think. I mean the main theme of the movie is the antihero getting revenge for what is done to him in the beginning, which is a kidnapping situation gone bad, he wants to avenge. And as he is trying to find the gang and kill him, he has to avoid his superiors and other cops, who are trying to find him and stop him. That's the the main premise and theme.

However, I feel that him killing his partner, and being chased for that, will overpower the main theme, cause that in itself is more drastic, than what the revenge is really about anyway? Does that make sense? It goes from being a revenge story, to more of a fugitive story, with more emphasis placed on the antiheroes one crime, as opposed to the gangs numerous crimes.

Plus another thing is, is that the antihero, in order to have the ending I want, is suppose to 'turn to the dark side', after he kills the gang members in the climax. If he kills his partner way before in the story, he would have turned to the dark side too soon, thus the climax isn't near as dramatic, and it would be otherwise. The climax is about him making a choice, get his revenge, or live free for the rest of his life, with his love interest. But if he kills his partner before, and is already charged with that crime, on the run, his fate has already been taken away, so whatever he does in the climax will not affect the rest of his life, so it's not near as powerful.

So I guess the idea works plotwise, but I feel it goes against the theme?

At least with the second idea, the gang is still responsible for the cop's death, so the revenge is more directed onto them, as oppose to the main cop getting revenge on them but mostly to avenge his own mistake, which he has already turned to the dark side too soon in the story for.
 
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A large part of the theme is what hand he has been dealt, and the choice he has to make. The choice of dying an avenger who saved future lives possibly, or going on to live happily with others, but let the criminals go.

So I feel that by having him forced to make this choice, forced by five armed men, in the second act, is too early and him making such a choice in the climax will not be impacting cause he has already made it long before. I also feel that him being forced to make it, is not as strong as him having a REAL choice.

However, perhaps instead of killing his partner, they somehow manage to overpower them and escape, but the partner ends up wounded, and instead the protagonist gets charged with a lesser crime of a lesser harsh sentence, such as reckless endangerment, and breaking and entering, related crimes.

Which can carry a few years in prison, but he would still have the rest of his life ahead of him, and is free to make a choice in the end, to live or go to prison for the rest of his life, compared to just a few years which he already is on the run from. What do you think? Does that hold together plot wise, or do I need to come up with something else, that will work for theme, but also make sense in the plot?

Or does that not work as well theme wise, either, and I need him to be a totally free man to have his choice have impact?
 
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