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How do you handle your post production sound?

I'm curious and wanted to do a quick survey:

What programs do you use to do your sound post production?

How do you marry it up with picture later on?

Do you ever mix your films in 5.1?

What's the most money you would be willing (and feasibly able) to spend on a 2 hour film for professional post audio?
 
I usually just use Final Cut Express but it is such a miserable pain in the ass. But I'm in Germany for the editing phase of a film I just shot in Africa, and it looks like I'll be able to get my hands on Premiere. Great news for me, since I really have to "assemble" my soundscapes, as my cheapo $300 microphone is fairly limited in it's ability to record excellent production sound.
 
I was just thinking today about how most Indie Short films I see don't have that great of audio. I think that some would be great films if the audio was done better. If they were recorded with better equipment at higher sample rates that would help. Then if they were mastered by a real recording studio. I think analog mastering is the way to go if you can afford it. I think using the real tube compressors would make a huge difference. I am thinking of doing analog mastering to some music I am writing.

My last project I did the mix in sony vegas. I plan to do my future projects with Cakewalk Sonar X1 once I get it up and running good. It is a DAW. I then plan to see how good of a master I can get with pluggins. I should be able to mix 5.1 surround using Sonar X1 but I would need the monitor speakers for that. Not sure I could do that with just head phones. I guess I could mix and then try it out in my surround system for my bluray player but I don't know how to do it with my computer alone. Maybe hook an optical out from my audio interface to my stereo or something like that.
 
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As I mentioned previously "mastering" is a music thing, not a film thing. Automated analog consoles are used during the mix of big budget projects, the console costing a large six figures. And mid and low budget projects are usually mixed in the box and/or on digital consoles.

Mixing 5.1 properly (to spec) is a big deal. I've priced out doing it right and it's friggin' expensive! Just the Dolby or THX license alone would break my bank. I'll stick with my stereo mixes and farming out the surround stuff.

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Skywalker Sound

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Todd AO

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Alcove Audio
 
Heh, Alcove, those are tiny studios compared to the bigger ones they have.

Last one I worked on had a basketball hoop and a ping-pong table for fun during the reel change-over. ;)
 
It really does not look too much different then some recording studios I have seen. Here is the studio I used for some songs I did in the past. These were Protools HD rigs. First set of pictures are studio A. Second studio B. Third studio C. This is sweetwater studios in Fort Wayne Indiana. http://productions.sweetwater.com/studio_a.php

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I would think mastering is something that could be done to audio for film I don't see why not. If you are making your tracks for your audio in digital you could still send it out for master. Digital mastering in protools or another DAW may be good enough.

For low budget shorts you may be happy with just using puggins you have and doing it at home. Like Ozone or Tracks3. You can get demos below. You could use this with Sony Vegas and probably most of the other video editing or audio DAWs.

http://www.izotope.com/products/audio/ozone/
http://www.ikmultimedia.com/t-racks/download/

I think I could do my own mixing at home but maybe need to out source the mastering since I can't quite get that production quality to it without external equipment I don't have. That is for the music I am working on. But for film maybe just using plugins would be good enough for now.
 
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I would think mastering is something that could be done to audio for film I don't see why not.

Are you complaining about the quality of the mixes coming out of the big audio post houses? Personally I think that they sound great, and that the mastering done to music these days is killing music - everything is mixed to 11, no dynamics at all.
 
Alcove I was talking about the fact that most of the audio I hear from indiefilms do not sound like it was mastered and probably would benefit from it. Even if it was just sent off to a studio that did that since the home done mixes probably don't have good pluggins or external gear to make them sound the best. But if they could just get some mastering pluggins that would help.

As far as talking about music mastering I agree that they seem to over compress things on the latest releases and destroy the dynamics. It is really sad because the quality of the music is destroyed by that. I know that I bought a greatest hits album and wow the old versions were much better form the original cds then the new masters. I think the mastering done in the 90s on albums I like to listen to like Metallica the Black Album or Guns N Roses sound good. Soundgarden Superunknown sounded great. But the Soundgarden hits album from 2011 does not sound as good. The Red Hot Chilli Peppers Californication cd was really messed up by over compression. I love the cd but really wish the mastering was done right. The metallica Death Magnet was done really poorly. I know most people thought it was a really poor master. It is horribly clipped from what I can hear. I can't even listen too that album even though I like the songs. The mastering engineer said that the mix was too hot when he got it and that was the best he could do with it. He should have rejected the mix and made them fix it if that was the case.

I went and recorded some songs at sweetwater studios years back and the demos I did were not mastered up to my expectations. I guess they probably were mixed mostly in the box with plugins but I am not sure. My new belief is that if I sent my songs out to an analog mastering studio that it probably would sound better if they had good equipment and a good mastering engineer. I am sure analog mixing probably would have helped. I think the protools hd did pretty good mixing. I hired a guy to do more mixing in california on one of the tunes last year from that session. But he mastered with protools plugins I believe. It was not quit up to my expectations but he did a great mix. I think a dedicated mastering engineer with analog equipment would make a huge differnce. I will have to try that out soon. I am currently building a home recording studio to make demo songs and hopefully will have some sent for analog mastering in the future. I plan to do my own mixing on the demos.
 
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This is an issue near and dear to my heart. As a DIY/home-recording enthusiast with little-to-no money and hi-fi ambitions (while I occasionally appreciate listening to an indie lo-fi act, I've never wanted to do that myself), I'm constantly learning new ways to do things, and revising what I do know. That and I *know* the mix on the film I just finished is going to be horrible...the rough cut I was given EVERYTHING was maxed out. I had to turn the film audio down 15db just to HEAR the music I was working on.

The problem, at the end of the day, is the mix, not the mastering. Sure, you can EQ a film mix to cut down on some of the noise, but then you end up with a muffled mix. If one actor's voice is too quiet, you could use compression to balance things out, but again, you're upping the total noise floor. When the noise floor comes up, sonic room for music and foley is greatly reduced. So you could master to your heart's content to get a decent mix...or you could take the same amount of time and learn to do ADR and foley well, giving you the control you need to get a balanced mix. That way, everything can be clear at a lower overall volume, giving you plenty of headroom to mess with the dynamics as needed.

The "loudness war" happened(is happening) in music because of the misconception that a listener is going to respond more to a "hotter" song when they here it on the radio. You could blame it on label executives, but independant acts are often just as guilty, since we sometimes feel the need to shout to get noticed, metaphorically. These opinions, by the by, do not take into account genres such as noise or early black metal where it's (often) supposed to be loud and not pretty, therefore an aesthetic choice.

All that said, home mastering will never be as good due to the experience of a good mastering engineer. The tools are available (Waves is pretty awesome. I use Ozone because it's cheaper and you can get good results with it if you take your time) to just about anyone these days, but an engineer has spent years understanding the gear that you are trying to learn as you go.

rockerrockstar, what was it about the mastering that you disliked? Being able to pinpoint what you like and what you don't is an important step in getting better results the next time around. Analogue mixing may have helped you get what you are looking for, if you are going for a specific sound; the thing about analogue gear is that it colors the sound (in a way that we have grown accustomed to, sort of like a tempered scale). It's not necessarily "better" or "worse"...just different, and with the amount of plugins (even free stuff...check out kvraudio if you haven't) designed to emulate what we like about analogue gear, if you have the time to really work it, you can get an "in the box" recording that sounds just as good as any other. Analogue mastering, well, there's a reason mastering grade EQs can set you back 10 grand or more! For demos though, you might consider taking the time to learn the plugins. When mastering, take a recording of a song similar to the sound you want to A/B as you work (never a bad idea to send references to a mastering engineer as well...there are an infinite number of ways a record can sound "good"; it always helps to know what it is you want).

Cool you used Sweetwater, by the by, they're one of my favorite non-local places to buy gear!
 
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