How realistic is the 'dream'?

I'm depressed. Uneasy.

I'm 24, friendless, and almost homeless. Literally all I have left is my filmmaking talent.

I've written countless short stories, directed multiple award-winning films, and have dreamt of a successful career in the industry since before my balls dropped.

I don't want to struggle for the rest of my life. I also don't wanna work as an electrician, a grip, an editor - I wanna direct. Not just that - I wanna write my own material.

As it is, I can see exactly where I'm headed in life: I'll take a few short films to local festivals, maybe direct an unprofitable feature or two, eventually expand my photography business - and then I'll die. There might be a few girlfriends along the way; hell, maybe even a fuckin' kid. But as it stands, I have no idea how I'll make the leap from low-budget indies to high-budget studio films.

I don't mean to come off as a brat. I love filmmaking, and being able to take part in any facet of the business is something I'd be grateful for. I just... I have aspirations. I don't wanna settle. I don't just want talent--I wanna be somebody. I wanna be Paul Thomas Anderson. Jarmusch. Aronofsky. Hell, Stanley fuckin' Kubrick.

Okay, that's a stretch. I just want success. I don't particularly care about having a recognizable name - I just want people to care about my work. All that 'buzz' crafted for Tarantino films, Spielberg films? I want that shit for my films.

It just seems so... out there. So goddamn unattainable. Like that one popular chick in high school you lusted after, day after day.

I'll be honest: I do have an opportunity coming up. A chance to make something of myself. I'd rather not get into the nitty-gritty, but I'll be receiving an influx of cash in the near future: a little over $200,000.

Most of it will go towards savings, some of it will go towards keeping myself alive for the next year - but I wanna use a chunk of it to make something: a damn good short film. Answer me this: let's say I cut my latest feature script down to 10-15 pages or so, and develop it as a short. If I spend my money on marketable actors and talented crew - and get into a major festival or two - will that improve my chances of raising funding for the feature?

This seems like my only shot at the 'big leagues' - I'm nervous as hell. First and foremost, though, I'd like to know whether or not this even sounds feasible. Would any marketable actor even consider a short film for less than $500,000,000 a day? No clue how high those rates climb. Even if I did obtain a fairly marketable name - let's say Rainn Wilson, for instance - would any reputable investor even consider funding a feature of mine?

I'm basically just repeating my title question at this point - how realistic is the 'dream'?
 
how realistic is the 'dream'?

It's probably not realistic at all.

But it's a dream - that's how they work. If it was realistic and sensible and easy to achieve it wouldn't be a dream at all, would it? It would just be "what I'm doing next week". And it wouldn't be any more valuable or important to you than dropping off the dry cleaning, or taking out the trash, or whatever it is you actually are doing next week.

I don't wanna settle.

So don't. Don't worry about how realistic it is, just keep doing it. You might well die without succeeding as you would have liked - but who cares? You certainly won't, because you'll be dead. Trying and failing isn't settling - giving up or not trying at all is.
 
I think you're focusing too much on the destination and not enough on the journey (the fun part). Nobody listens to music so they can get to the end of the song. It's about the way it makes you feel while it's playing!
 
A $200,000 windfall? :O

I'd be buying a house, and then spending the rest of my life safe in the knowledge that there is no rent/mortgage to pay, only utility bills. You'd only ever need to work part time, giving you all the freedom/time you like to work on your art.

The Dream, the destination, is an illusion, an anomoly. The journey is very real however. Enjoy it while you can. :)
 
I think attaining the dream is as realistic for you as it was for Anderson,
Jarmusch, Aronofsky, Tarantino, Spielberg and any other working director.
At one time they were all talented unknowns with the dream. You're
one step ahead of many; you have directed multiple award-winning films.

First and foremost, though, I'd like to know whether or not this even sounds feasible. Would any marketable actor even consider a short film for less than $500,000,000 a day?
Yes. Working actors often consider work for far, far less than $500,000,000/day.
Many will work under the SAG-AFTRA low budget and new media agreements
for as little as $100 per day. The rate can go up to a few thousand per day.
Even if I did obtain a fairly marketable name - let's say Rainn Wilson, for instance - would any reputable investor even consider funding a feature of mine?
Yes. It happens all the time. It could happen for you.
 
Money/fame/success/whatever are a byproduct of talent and hard work; the more talent you have and the harder you work the further up the money/fame/success/whatever chain you will get. And yes, luck will have something to do with it.

I ... don't wanna work as an electrician, a grip, an editor - I wanna direct.

Well, guess what, working as a PA, grip, gaffer, editor, etc. will get you into the presence of people who can influence your career. Working your way up the traditional "apprenticeship" ladder will improve your chances of success. It's called NETWORKING, and besides your talent you need a very broad network you can call upon when needed.

I'm ... friendless,

That's another reason you need to get out there and build your network. As the cliché goes, "It's not what you know, but who you know." The more people who know that you are talented and work your tail off the more opportunities will appear.
 
I think one should worry about making good work first and foremost, the rest comes later, if it ever comes.

Honestly, everybody "wants" and "dreams". That has little value, by my opinion. It's about endurance and passion. A race against your own enthusiasm, as Jill Soloway put it.

Rocky Balboa was damn right in his speech. It's not about how hard you can punch, it's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving foward.

If filmmaking is your true passion, you will keep moving, even if it seems futile.

Good luck.
 
I'm depressed. Uneasy.

I'm 24, friendless, and almost homeless. Literally all I have left is my filmmaking talent.

I've written countless short stories, directed multiple award-winning films, and have dreamt of a successful career in the industry since before my balls dropped.

I don't want to struggle for the rest of my life. I also don't wanna work as an electrician, a grip, an editor - I wanna direct. Not just that - I wanna write my own material.

As it is, I can see exactly where I'm headed in life: I'll take a few short films to local festivals, maybe direct an unprofitable feature or two, eventually expand my photography business - and then I'll die. There might be a few girlfriends along the way; hell, maybe even a fuckin' kid. But as it stands, I have no idea how I'll make the leap from low-budget indies to high-budget studio films.

I don't mean to come off as a brat. I love filmmaking, and being able to take part in any facet of the business is something I'd be grateful for. I just... I have aspirations. I don't wanna settle. I don't just want talent--I wanna be somebody. I wanna be Paul Thomas Anderson. Jarmusch. Aronofsky. Hell, Stanley fuckin' Kubrick.

Okay, that's a stretch. I just want success. I don't particularly care about having a recognizable name - I just want people to care about my work. All that 'buzz' crafted for Tarantino films, Spielberg films? I want that shit for my films.

It just seems so... out there. So goddamn unattainable. Like that one popular chick in high school you lusted after, day after day.

I'll be honest: I do have an opportunity coming up. A chance to make something of myself. I'd rather not get into the nitty-gritty, but I'll be receiving an influx of cash in the near future: a little over $200,000.

Most of it will go towards savings, some of it will go towards keeping myself alive for the next year - but I wanna use a chunk of it to make something: a damn good short film. Answer me this: let's say I cut my latest feature script down to 10-15 pages or so, and develop it as a short. If I spend my money on marketable actors and talented crew - and get into a major festival or two - will that improve my chances of raising funding for the feature?

This seems like my only shot at the 'big leagues' - I'm nervous as hell. First and foremost, though, I'd like to know whether or not this even sounds feasible. Would any marketable actor even consider a short film for less than $500,000,000 a day? No clue how high those rates climb. Even if I did obtain a fairly marketable name - let's say Rainn Wilson, for instance - would any reputable investor even consider funding a feature of mine?

I'm basically just repeating my title question at this point - how realistic is the 'dream'?



First, I want to say the "dream" is basically making films, that's what it's about - doing what you love to do - which is making films and if you're really lucky, you'll get the gold statues that those in the industry award themselves with from time to time and become a household name. To me, that's what the dream is about - making great films and working with great people and doing the great work of filmmaking...


Now how realistic is it to be "Tarantino/Spielberg/Cameron" successful with your films? Well, it's about as realistic as someone's dream of being a doctor, a lawyer, a lawyer trying to pass the bar exam - but you know what it takes to reach "the dream"? HARD WORK. One thing I DO know for sure about Tarantino and Spielberg and even James Cameron - (who I found out was homeless when he wrote The Terminator), they worked HARD, yeah sure they had to start at the bottom but it took dedication. persistence and hard, hard work. Also (and not trying to get religious here) but faith, faith in yourself in a higher power. It's also what helped Tyler Perry along. His faith in himself and a higher power.


That's just the experience that I know, now others here may tell you different that "the dream" is unattainable and unrealistic and you'll have a better chance at getting struck at lightning and all that - but I find talk like that discouraging to anyone interested in coming into the industry. Like I said YES this industry is going to KICK your ass and you're going to have to fight blood, sweat and tears to get to where you want to be, YES, you're going to go through HUNDREDS of rejections from PLENTY of people before you get success, YES you're going to get doors slammed in your face, opportunities passed on you, it's not going to be easy or fun at all at first. It's going to be waking up at three in the morning in tears thinking "when will I get to be like Tarantino?" "When will my filmmaking career be this and that", you're going to have that but it's then that you still keep plugging along harder, stronger and more determined to reach that dream. And then....after all that hard work, after all the tears and sweat and persistence and drive and determination - you GET there. You REACH that dream and achieve that success and you will see the true meaning of the saying "nothing worthwhile ever comes easy."

Like I said, that's just my experience and advice on it. I hope that helps you to not be depressed. There's a lot of people who only have their "dream" of filmmaking, acting or so on to live off of, so you're not alone. :)


However, I will say this from reading your post - and this I know from having a long distance relative who is IN the industry and who has told me this once upon a time, so I know - in trying to achieve the "dream" in the industry, in trying to achieve success as a filmmaker - look at what you sign your name to because just because it looks good, doesn't mean that it is and if you're not careful, you'll find yourself signing yourself to another side of the industry that is hard to get untangled from - all in your eager search of FAME and success..That's all I have to say on that good luck to you..
 
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I'm depressed. Uneasy.

I'm 24, friendless, and almost homeless. Literally all I have left is my filmmaking talent.

I've written countless short stories, directed multiple award-winning films, and have dreamt of a successful career in the industry since before my balls dropped.

I don't want to struggle for the rest of my life. I also don't wanna work as an electrician, a grip, an editor - I wanna direct. Not just that - I wanna write my own material.

As it is, I can see exactly where I'm headed in life: I'll take a few short films to local festivals, maybe direct an unprofitable feature or two, eventually expand my photography business - and then I'll die. There might be a few girlfriends along the way; hell, maybe even a fuckin' kid. But as it stands, I have no idea how I'll make the leap from low-budget indies to high-budget studio films.

I don't mean to come off as a brat. I love filmmaking, and being able to take part in any facet of the business is something I'd be grateful for. I just... I have aspirations. I don't wanna settle. I don't just want talent--I wanna be somebody. I wanna be Paul Thomas Anderson. Jarmusch. Aronofsky. Hell, Stanley fuckin' Kubrick.

Okay, that's a stretch. I just want success. I don't particularly care about having a recognizable name - I just want people to care about my work. All that 'buzz' crafted for Tarantino films, Spielberg films? I want that shit for my films.

It just seems so... out there. So goddamn unattainable. Like that one popular chick in high school you lusted after, day after day.

I'll be honest: I do have an opportunity coming up. A chance to make something of myself. I'd rather not get into the nitty-gritty, but I'll be receiving an influx of cash in the near future: a little over $200,000.

Most of it will go towards savings, some of it will go towards keeping myself alive for the next year - but I wanna use a chunk of it to make something: a damn good short film. Answer me this: let's say I cut my latest feature script down to 10-15 pages or so, and develop it as a short. If I spend my money on marketable actors and talented crew - and get into a major festival or two - will that improve my chances of raising funding for the feature?

This seems like my only shot at the 'big leagues' - I'm nervous as hell. First and foremost, though, I'd like to know whether or not this even sounds feasible. Would any marketable actor even consider a short film for less than $500,000,000 a day? No clue how high those rates climb. Even if I did obtain a fairly marketable name - let's say Rainn Wilson, for instance - would any reputable investor even consider funding a feature of mine?

I'm basically just repeating my title question at this point - how realistic is the 'dream'?


Previously, I gave you advice about your question, how realistic is the dream - the advice I gave was not all true The "dream" can only be achieved by doing whatever you're told, when you're told, no matter how depraved - and if you don't do it, you won't get anywhere in the industry. ALL actors/filmmakers/ singers/producers who you see on films, television and you hear on the radio today have gotten to be where they are because they know not to say "no" to whatever is asked of them by the higher professionals in the industry. So, that's how realistic the "dream" is. It's all about one question - "how far are you willing to go to achieve success in the industry?" And that's truth, no matter what anyone else says....But don't believe me, keep working towards your "dream"....and when - and if you get in that room with all the big time industry execs eventually you'll exactly see what I mean. ;)
 
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The "dream" can only be achieved by doing whatever you're told, when you're told, no matter how depraved
Pardon my french, but fuck that shit.

Never walk into a room without the willingness and ability to say 'Thanks, but no thanks', turn right back around and walk out. There are plenty of things that it's fine to compromise on, but at some point you have to realize that you can't compromise yourself and expect the results to be worth it.
 
Pardon my french, but fuck that shit.

Never walk into a room without the willingness and ability to say 'Thanks, but no thanks', turn right back around and walk out. There are plenty of things that it's fine to compromise on, but at some point you have to realize that you can't compromise yourself and expect the results to be worth it.

Agree.
 
Understand where you're coming from - but at least you are living in America and have a portfolio, so you have that. I'm 25, and stuck on the English south coast, miles away from anything resembling my career. I share that same sort of 'that could be me' attitude. Then again, you're only 24 and I can't think of any director who had a reputation that side of thirty. The classic few examples aside Steven Spielberg (28, with Jaws) and James Cameron (30, with The Terminator), are two filmmakers out of hundreds.

On the flip side, one can fall into disrepute as easily as they can attain glory. Consider M. Night Shyamalan. He went from the heights of the Sixth Sense at 29 in 1999. Now, in 2014, they won't even market a film with his name attached to it. Nothing is set in stone, filmmaking just as much.

One thing, and I cannot stress this enough, is director's commentary tracks on films are gold. Pure gold. What you are getting, essentially, is a two-hour one to one lecture from the person who made the film talk about what it is they love, and how they got there. There is no celebrity attached to the commentary, just artists talk about their art. The Inbetweeners Movie of all things has a great commentary track by the director, cinematographer and art director. Listen to what they have to say, it gives great perspective.

The romantic notion of filmmaking is addictive. $500,000,000 a day is an astronomical fee and doesn't exist, if the actor is convinced, if you can sell the idea who knows what they'll do it for. Take every objection as a request for further information.

I once had an opportunity to work with one of the world's leading underwater cinematographers (Skyfall, Tomb Raider, The Beach). I even got his phone number and spoke to him through my connections... nothing came of it. But it goes to show how things can change over night. I never thought I'd speak to anyone from that sort of background, but I did. I was only 21. You're only 24.
 
I also don't wanna work as an electrician, a grip, an editor - I wanna direct. Not just that - I wanna write my own material. ... I wanna be Paul Thomas Anderson. Jarmusch. Aronofsky. Hell, Stanley fuckin' Kubrick. ... I have no idea how I'll make the leap from low-budget indies to high-budget studio films.

How realistic is your dream? ... Utterly unrealistic, essentially impossible! For two reasons:

1. Pretty much all the famous filmmakers mentioned in this thread either worked in other roles first, formally or informally studied (with industry professionals) or all three. So what they all had in common (besides inherent talent and originality) is knowledge and experience of how commercial films are made and professional/commercial contacts. You refuse to work in other roles though, to gain this knowledge/experience and make and cultivate the contacts, therefore; pretty much no chance.

2. Trying to come up with an idea of how to make "the leap" is not much use if you've incorrectly identified "the leap" to start with!! You're not a low-budget indie filmmaker, from what I can gather, you're currently an experienced amateur (and therefore essentially a no budget) shorts filmmaker. With virtually no exceptions, there is no "leap" from amateur filmmaker to Hollywood Writer/Director. Instead, there are a number of smaller leaps, each of which only provide the potential to progress. For example, the leap from a micro budget indie feature to a successful low budget indie feature is very difficult but realistic, as is the leap from successful low budget indie feature to studio feature and from that to high-budget major studio film. Attempting to bypass any of these leaps reduces your already slim (but realistic) chances drastically.

If I spend my money on marketable actors and talented crew - and get into a major festival or two - will that improve my chances of raising funding for the feature?

Obviously it will, so that's not a useful question. The important question is how much it will improve your chances and that's a question which ultimately only you can attempt to answer. Being able to afford marketable actors and a talented professional crew is not THE solution, it's just a part of a solution. How you direct your professional cast and crew's talent largely defines the quality of their work, which in combination with what you direct them to do, defines the quality of the final product, which in turn can lead to the next step. There are a lot of determining factors beyond the skills/marketability of your cast and crew or even your skill in directing them; commercial potential of the script of course and also vitally important is an experienced, talented and successful Producer.

Pardon my french, but fuck that shit. ... Never walk into a room without the willingness and ability to say 'Thanks, but no thanks', turn right back around and walk out. There are plenty of things that it's fine to compromise on, but at some point you have to realize that you can't compromise yourself and expect the results to be worth it.

kid-filmmaker's assertion was a bit extreme but in reality, not really so far from the truth. Saying "no" is perfectly fine for an amateur but not so much for a pro. Even those at the absolute top have to be judicious in when and to whom they say "no" to, and those nearer the bottom of the pro ranks usually need to avoid saying "no" at almost any cost!

G
 
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Pardon my french, but fuck that shit.

Never walk into a room without the willingness and ability to say 'Thanks, but no thanks', turn right back around and walk out. There are plenty of things that it's fine to compromise on, but at some point you have to realize that you can't compromise yourself and expect the results to be worth it.

That's true, that's very true...but if you want to be Jamie Foxx, Will Smith, Jay Z, Jennifer Lawrence and all those people, if you want to have all the success in the industry that they have - you have to be willing to do whatever told, whenever told - no matter what and if you don't, your career will go nowhere and that's truth, it is TRUTH. If you believe that bullshit that people say it being all about "just believing in yourself and getting people to see your talent and getting around the right people who will see your talent and talent is all that you need to succeed and be a STAR" - you've got more smoke up your ass than a witch burning on a stake. It's all about if you want that role, that record contract, what are you willing to do to get it....But like I said, don't take my word for it...Keep plugging at it, keep reaching out to those in the industry and yeah, if you eventually get around those in the industry who can help and make you succeed, I guarantee you, there'll be more that you have to do after signing that contract - whether it be in acting, filmmaking, singing or what have you....and as I said, if you don't do it, well - then you can join the ranks of being just an unknown, "starving artist" ;)

But I don't know what I'm talking about, sure I don't....
 
That's true, that's very true...but if you want to be Jamie Foxx, Will Smith, Jay Z, Jennifer Lawrence and all those people, if you want to have all the success in the industry that they have - you have to be willing to do whatever told, whenever told - no matter what and if you don't, your career will go nowhere and that's truth, it is TRUTH. If you believe that bullshit that people say it being all about "just believing in yourself and getting people to see your talent and getting around the right people who will see your talent and talent is all that you need to succeed and be a STAR" - you've got more smoke up your ass than a witch burning on a stake. It's all about if you want that role, that record contract, what are you willing to do to get it....But like I said, don't take my word for it...Keep plugging at it, keep reaching out to those in the industry and yeah, if you eventually get around those in the industry who can help and make you succeed, I guarantee you, there'll be more that you have to do after signing that contract - whether it be in acting, filmmaking, singing or what have you....and as I said, if you don't do it, well - then you can join the ranks of being just an unknown, "starving artist" ;)

But I don't know what I'm talking about, sure I don't....
I'm calling BS, too. People who are working professionals in music, acting,
comedy, producing, directing, writing do NOT have to do "whatever
told, whenever told - no matter what". Most working professionals
do not compromise their principles.

I agree with you kid_filmmaker that “just believe in yourself” is foolish.
There are hundreds of thousands of people who believe in themselves who
never reach the level of the people you mention. But your statement that
if you want to have all the success in the industry that they have you have
to compromise yourself is crazy. People like those you have mentioned
worked hard and I have never heard of them compromising their principles
by doing "whatever told, whenever told - no matter what".

You sure have a cynical view of what it takes to earn success.
 
I'm calling BS, too. People who are working professionals in music, acting,
comedy, producing, directing, writing do NOT have to do "whatever
told, whenever told - no matter what". Most working professionals
do not compromise their principles.

I agree with you kid_filmmaker that “just believe in yourself” is foolish.
There are hundreds of thousands of people who believe in themselves who
never reach the level of the people you mention. But your statement that
if you want to have all the success in the industry that they have you have
to compromise yourself is crazy. People like those you have mentioned
worked hard and I have never heard of them compromising their principles
by doing "whatever told, whenever told - no matter what".

You sure have a cynical view of what it takes to earn success.


Ok, whatever you say. Maybe all that I said is just all - "gravy". ;)
 
Even those at the absolute top have to be judicious in when and to whom they say "no" to, and those nearer the bottom of the pro ranks usually need to avoid saying "no" at almost any cost!

Sure - it's not about being unwilling to compromise, just knowing what your personal and/or reasonable limits are and sticking to them. And like I said - the proper response is usually "Thanks, but no thanks". No need to deliberately burn bridges unnecessarily, you can still be political in saying no.

And I actually think it's even more important at the lower ranks, as that's where someone's far more likely to be taken advantage of. An unwillingness to say 'no' by many people "near the bottom of the pro ranks" is part of what got Sarah Jones killed.

If you believe that bullshit that people say it being all about "just believing in yourself and getting people to see your talent and getting around the right people who will see your talent and talent is all that you need to succeed and be a STAR" - you've got more smoke up your ass than a witch burning on a stake.

Frankly, no, I don't. But what I do believe in is always negotiating from a position of strength rather than weakness. There are often situations where the only real strength you've got is your ability to stand up and walk out the door. Many times you'll have to accept compromises that you don't like, but know that you can live with - fine, then suck it up and say yes. But know where that line is, and when the compromises just don't make sense you have to be willing to get up and walk away.
 
Are you looking for comfort? Or a step by step guide?

Hey man, I'm going to disregard most of what everyone has said. I come from a very different background, living on the East Coast and wondering how on earth I was going to work my way up. Flash forward 3 years later and I'm prepping a project for what will be a several million dollar production where I'll be working with my,now good friend, George Escobar, who has made 7 million dollar films and has deals with Capital (Records, they do film distribution now). Not only am I writing this production, but I'm working on the business plan.

How did this happen? Especially when I did not go to film school and I haven't been to LA in many years. I had no real connections either. The trick was, instead of going to film school, digging myself into debt, I devoted those three years to learning the business of how to raise capital, make your film, and market it on my own. I spent my time learning from business gurus and from any filmmaker I could find who would talk about the actual business of making and selling your films. The business gurus were more helpful most of the time ;]

If you can learn the business (aka control the money), you are automatically in the "in club." By the way, this doesn't require compromising your morals or integrity (was reading some of the comments being made about that...sounds sad ;]).

To finish, I want your help. Because I was in the same position as you, I want to help filmmakers learn how to make a living making films (I even have a podcast on the subject www.filmthrive.com or go to itunes and look up Film Thrive) so I'm trying to create a solution to help anyone like you learn the process. Feeling lost on how to pursue your passion is terrifying.

So, if you could answer these questions for me it would help me with my research (Anyone else who has commented on this thread can answer these too - it would help me out a lot on the research we're doing):
1. What is your single greatest question about making films for a living?
2. Why would it make a difference in your life to get this solution?
3. How difficult, to date, has it been for you to find an answer to the above? Not at all? Somewhat? Very?

I know these questions seem super simple, but honestly to get answers to them would help me out tremendously. Be as passionate as you like ;]

Let me know if there is anything I can do for you man.

Sincerely,
Arel Avellino
Producer / Owner @ Avellino Studios
 
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