The power of the PC crowd
- Thread starter sfoster
- Start date
I have no idea of the specifics and context of that example, but the pc thing can really go too far sometimes. It's the thin end of a wedge that threatens so much freedom of expression, especially with comedy and movies, and there's far too much of starting to happen here in the UK too.
You can either take the piss out of everybody, or you can take the piss out of nobody. Selective immunity is BS.
Remember the whole South Park/Family guy Muhammad issue?
Context and political (in)convenience usually.
You can either take the piss out of everybody, or you can take the piss out of nobody. Selective immunity is BS.
Remember the whole South Park/Family guy Muhammad issue?
Context and political (in)convenience usually.
Last edited:
I strongly disagree with this.
Taking the piss out of everyone tends to be people in the majority using that position to take cracks at minorities (in their various forms) and then excusing it by taking pot-shots at the majority. A majority taking the piss out of itself is not oppressive (nor is a minority taking the piss out of a majority); but a majority taking the piss out a minority is a means of institutionalising oppression. Obviously these are quite grand terms, and there's definitely a sliding scale to how damaging these things are. But what you call 'selective immunity' is a means of defending minorities from oppression. And, frankly, if a disabled person, for example, says that they don't want people making jokes about disabled people, then in behoves the predominantly cis white middle-class male entertainment industry to appreciate that.
In my opinion, I'm very uncomfortable with any 'comedy' which creates a false equivalence between laughing at oneself and laughing at 'others'.
I'm with Nick. I came to say something to that effect, but he did it better than I could've.
Re: Artie's FB post. I'm not familiar with the situation, but from the small bit I've read, he doesn't really provide any justification/valid argument.
He says he's going to explain things he can't believe he has to explain to "a rational world." But then doesn't really address the issue. He makes a number of falacious arguments, doing the classic throwing around the word "PC" without providing any argument (the phrase PC is so loaded with negative connotations, you don't have to provide any further justification to a less rational person). It reminds me of people who use "feminist" as an insult.
Saying "I'm not racist. I don't hate women" is absurd. All he's done is say that he's sorry if he offended Cari (though he's sure she won't be offended, so it's not really a proper apology) and that the PC groups can go "FUCK themselves." There aren't many people who would identify themselves as racist or sexist. Saying your not without justification isn't a valid argument.
That said, I don't know much about the particular case. I'm just responding to his Facebook post, and the general anti "PC" thing.
Re: Artie's FB post. I'm not familiar with the situation, but from the small bit I've read, he doesn't really provide any justification/valid argument.
He says he's going to explain things he can't believe he has to explain to "a rational world." But then doesn't really address the issue. He makes a number of falacious arguments, doing the classic throwing around the word "PC" without providing any argument (the phrase PC is so loaded with negative connotations, you don't have to provide any further justification to a less rational person). It reminds me of people who use "feminist" as an insult.
Saying "I'm not racist. I don't hate women" is absurd. All he's done is say that he's sorry if he offended Cari (though he's sure she won't be offended, so it's not really a proper apology) and that the PC groups can go "FUCK themselves." There aren't many people who would identify themselves as racist or sexist. Saying your not without justification isn't a valid argument.
That said, I don't know much about the particular case. I'm just responding to his Facebook post, and the general anti "PC" thing.
Nick -
Notice that I said that I had no idea of the contex of Arties post? I was NOT defending him.
And yes, taking the piss out of EVERYBODY includes ourselves. To generalise as you did and assume that I was being selective was an erronous association from you.
I never said that Arties' was a case of selective immunity. My point, and his situation, are not mutually inclusive.
Mental note to self: Politics and religion. Never go there.
Edit: Just to clarify, I'm not defending him. I was drawing attention to the fact that due to poilitcal inconvenience revolving around US foreign poilicy and the War on Terror, certain scenes were censored. In all the years that the SP writers have been taking the piss out out of Christianity, Scientology, Buddism, Taoism, black culture, white culture, gingers, disabled people, poor people, rich people, tall people, short people, stupid people, clever people, etc, none were censored. Majority or minority, it was never such an issue for the broadcasters until the Muhammad scenes were deemed to cross the line by the censors.
I realise now that what I wrote last night may have easily been misconstrued, and in hindsight I should have been either a lot clearer to avoid any confusion, or just walked away from the keyboard. You have my apologies.
PS: I'm disabled, both mentally and physically. I'm poor (so much that I cant afford the cost of living here in the UK where the middle class majority rules, and I'm soon to be homeless), I wear glasses, I'm well over 6' tall, I have geeky/niche hobbies, I have an exceptionally high IQ (but couldn't pass a gcse if I tried!). I've been singled out and abused all my life due to divergence from the social norm here, especially by those that statistically are my 'own' people, by my collegues, friends, authorites and an education system that are supposed to protect minorities. In no way am I defending racists, disabilitists (lol) or any other form of selective oppression, and certainly not for the sake of entertaining the generalised middle class social elite.
PPS: Somewhat more amusingly, and to exemplify how shallow and material some communities are, I've even been mocked and ostracised for my choice of mobile phone (it cost me £7 new). They didn't care or notice any of the things that others have jumped on me for, just the social embarrasment of what smartphone each of them had (or in my case didn't). Rich peoples problems, eh?
Notice that I said that I had no idea of the contex of Arties post? I was NOT defending him.
And yes, taking the piss out of EVERYBODY includes ourselves. To generalise as you did and assume that I was being selective was an erronous association from you.
I never said that Arties' was a case of selective immunity. My point, and his situation, are not mutually inclusive.
Mental note to self: Politics and religion. Never go there.
Edit: Just to clarify, I'm not defending him. I was drawing attention to the fact that due to poilitcal inconvenience revolving around US foreign poilicy and the War on Terror, certain scenes were censored. In all the years that the SP writers have been taking the piss out out of Christianity, Scientology, Buddism, Taoism, black culture, white culture, gingers, disabled people, poor people, rich people, tall people, short people, stupid people, clever people, etc, none were censored. Majority or minority, it was never such an issue for the broadcasters until the Muhammad scenes were deemed to cross the line by the censors.
I realise now that what I wrote last night may have easily been misconstrued, and in hindsight I should have been either a lot clearer to avoid any confusion, or just walked away from the keyboard. You have my apologies.
PS: I'm disabled, both mentally and physically. I'm poor (so much that I cant afford the cost of living here in the UK where the middle class majority rules, and I'm soon to be homeless), I wear glasses, I'm well over 6' tall, I have geeky/niche hobbies, I have an exceptionally high IQ (but couldn't pass a gcse if I tried!). I've been singled out and abused all my life due to divergence from the social norm here, especially by those that statistically are my 'own' people, by my collegues, friends, authorites and an education system that are supposed to protect minorities. In no way am I defending racists, disabilitists (lol) or any other form of selective oppression, and certainly not for the sake of entertaining the generalised middle class social elite.
PPS: Somewhat more amusingly, and to exemplify how shallow and material some communities are, I've even been mocked and ostracised for my choice of mobile phone (it cost me £7 new).
They didn't care or notice any of the things that others have jumped on me for, just the social embarrasment of what smartphone each of them had (or in my case didn't). Rich peoples problems, eh?
Last edited:
A.D.: Didn't intend it to come across as an attack on you, but on what, in my opinion, is a frequently applied false logic – namely that you can offend people so long as you're an equal opportunities offender.
I think the important thing to always bear in mind is that people have every bit as much of a right to get offended as you or I do to not get offended. And if you make a joke that offends someone, anyone, then that's a problem. Obviously, the scale of the problem is increased by the scale of the offence, but, for me, I don't want to derive humour from any joke that 'others' a group that I am not part of. Making fun of myself is fine, but, as a cis white middle class male, that's very easy to say! And that's why I think it would be much better if, in general, everyone erred on the side of caution, rather than the side of recklessness.
Which isn't to diminish your experiences. There will always be comedians who do work with that edge and some are really great. But the best edgy comedians are the ones who use that to satirise double-standards and point out the failures of society in general, rather than the ones who make cheap cracks about minorities. I think that's probably the crucial difference and, by the sound of it, what Artie Lang got wrong when he thought, as a white man, it would be funny to make a joke about slavery with reference to a black woman.
I think the important thing to always bear in mind is that people have every bit as much of a right to get offended as you or I do to not get offended. And if you make a joke that offends someone, anyone, then that's a problem. Obviously, the scale of the problem is increased by the scale of the offence, but, for me, I don't want to derive humour from any joke that 'others' a group that I am not part of. Making fun of myself is fine, but, as a cis white middle class male, that's very easy to say! And that's why I think it would be much better if, in general, everyone erred on the side of caution, rather than the side of recklessness.
Which isn't to diminish your experiences. There will always be comedians who do work with that edge and some are really great. But the best edgy comedians are the ones who use that to satirise double-standards and point out the failures of society in general, rather than the ones who make cheap cracks about minorities. I think that's probably the crucial difference and, by the sound of it, what Artie Lang got wrong when he thought, as a white man, it would be funny to make a joke about slavery with reference to a black woman.
Don't worry Nick, I didn't take it as an attack. I did basically what we all often do, and add our 2p without being thorough, or clear as to where (or to whom) it was directed (if at all).
Interstingly, I can't recall the last time a black comedian was publically branded as racist for a joke about white people? 'We' have laughed at many a Chris Rock or Eddy Murphy joke directed at the white population (even singling out minority white audience members for ridicule), and it never seems to occur to the 'PC crowd' that it might just go both ways.
Indeed. This highlights my initial point very well. The SP writers have always done this (sometimes better than others), wheras the FG writers tend towards the blatant cheap shots. I still don't know the details of Arties joke, but I suspect much the same as you.
Aaaanyway. This is getting far to political for IT, something I'm glad we don't have to contend with too much here! (Isn't it one of the IT rules?) Now I'm onto my second cuppa of the day and am off to do something creative, and possibly even constructive too.
Interstingly, I can't recall the last time a black comedian was publically branded as racist for a joke about white people? 'We' have laughed at many a Chris Rock or Eddy Murphy joke directed at the white population (even singling out minority white audience members for ridicule), and it never seems to occur to the 'PC crowd' that it might just go both ways.
Indeed. This highlights my initial point very well. The SP writers have always done this (sometimes better than others), wheras the FG writers tend towards the blatant cheap shots. I still don't know the details of Arties joke, but I suspect much the same as you.
Aaaanyway. This is getting far to political for IT, something I'm glad we don't have to contend with too much here! (Isn't it one of the IT rules?) Now I'm onto my second cuppa of the day and am off to do something creative, and possibly even constructive too.
I'm from a Chinese background and like ethnic humour. Russell Peters is gigantic among the ABC, BBC and CBC etc... Chinese populations. He's a successful, multi-millionaire and spends his time cracking jokes at our expense. Here's an early sketch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2W8aGgmn1A
Then some more...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7lIO9vd5Pg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tyuNJt5HQ8
Still haven't figured out why... I guess because he's funny.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2W8aGgmn1A
Then some more...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7lIO9vd5Pg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tyuNJt5HQ8
Still haven't figured out why... I guess because he's funny.
Last edited:
Geeze you guys go into all this discussion but everyone is too lazy to google what he said 
Here is a link that lists his tweets in question (the tweets are below the video.. scroll past it)
http://www.complex.com/sports/2014/...ng-tweets-espn-first-take-host-cari-champion/
Here is a link that lists his tweets in question (the tweets are below the video.. scroll past it)
http://www.complex.com/sports/2014/...ng-tweets-espn-first-take-host-cari-champion/
Well that was worse than I expected :/
Racist/sexist jokes can be funny, but whether they're ok is another discussion (one I don't think we'll come to a conclusion to in this thread). But I am struggling to see how his tweets would pass for comedy in any situation outside a 14 year old boys changing room. All he's done is make a bunch of aggressively sexualised comments about someone (that also happen to be pretty racist) and called it comedy?
Racist/sexist jokes can be funny, but whether they're ok is another discussion (one I don't think we'll come to a conclusion to in this thread). But I am struggling to see how his tweets would pass for comedy in any situation outside a 14 year old boys changing room. All he's done is make a bunch of aggressively sexualised comments about someone (that also happen to be pretty racist) and called it comedy?
As Nick said earlier, the minority can't oppress the majority with offensive jokes. Those jokes come from the position of the oppressed, and are a way at hitting back at the oppressive actions of the majority. I don't necessarily think it's ok, but it gives the majority a chance to experience being a minority for once.Interstingly, I can't recall the last time a black comedian was publically branded as racist for a joke about white people? 'We' have laughed at many a Chris Rock or Eddy Murphy joke directed at the white population (even singling out minority white audience members for ridicule), and it never seems to occur to the 'PC crowd' that it might just go both ways.
Last edited:
Comedians push the envelope.. that's part of their job. I don't think firing him is good because it scares other comedians away from jokes and they need to feel free to explore that territory.
Personally I would have let him on @midnight and given him a chance to apologize to the chick instead of blacklisting him.
What's funny about a dead baby joke? IDK but people laugh at them all the time.
Personally I would have let him on @midnight and given him a chance to apologize to the chick instead of blacklisting him.
What's funny about a dead baby joke? IDK but people laugh at them all the time.