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Old 06-15-2008, 05:22 AM   #31
clive
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non fiction = a documentary or training video, or any film where the content is true, rather than drama

DVD = a product that is sold only on DVD

franchise = in the film industry a franchise is any film (drama or non-drama) where there are more than one films on the same theme or story ... so, Star Wars is a franchise... but so is "Pet Grooming For Fun and Profit" if there are a series of titles "Pet Grooming 1 - How to clip a poodle" "Pet Grooming 2 - Long Haired Dogs, dos and don't" etc etc
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Old 06-15-2008, 07:23 AM   #32
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Thanks Doug, well summed up

I've avoided commenting, partly because I don't like being nagged... but also because I don't like producers who load their films with sex and violence in order to make sales.

I'm not anti-sex or violence in films, I just like it to be an essential part of the story.

It strikes me as cynical and exploitative to make films only with a view of $$$$... and, if that's the objective, then hardcore pornography is the most profitable video production industry in the world. So, why bother to do anything else?

There's a graffiti artist called Banksy, his take is this... make things you believe in and success either follows or it doesn't, but fame and money shouldn't be the driving force.

I've another friend in the industry, whose take is: money is attracted to success, not the other way round.

That's my take.

I'd rather be poor and true to the things I believe in; rather than just another media whore.
Well said.
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Old 06-15-2008, 07:33 AM   #33
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Well clive i am confused about making or discovering a niche market actually.may be i habe been unable to make you understand what my question really is


i it so???


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Old 06-15-2008, 09:07 AM   #34
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There are two different kinds of markets for products MASS and NICHE

MASS MARKET is a product designed to make sales to almost everyone (ie Hollywood products, which sell all over hte world)

A NICHE MARKET is when the product is designed to appeal to a small, but well defined group

So, for instance, horror is a niche market, which traditionally has been good to indies... because although not everyone want to watch horror, horror fans love the stuff... and they don't care that it doesn't have any stars or a plot or anyone with any acting talent... or the ability to focus a camera... it just has to entertain them.

Now, horror is a big market, a world wide market... but still a niche market.

There are loads of niche markets... world cinema is a niche market. Not everyone wants to watch foreign language films (ask Steven Soderberg about that LOL)... but that doesn't means to say there isn't an audience.

Every niche market has different distribution systems and different marketing strategies.
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Old 06-15-2008, 10:05 AM   #35
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You are correct; a niche market is not a genre, it is more like a demographic, or special interest. I'm afraid I cannot guide you to find your niche. That is beyond my scope of knowledge. I sort of stumbled into my markets by doing what I do and finding out, through discussions with other people, that people would be willing to buy my product. That is probably the only guidance I can offer; to be successful with a special interest group, you must know that group well, which means you are probably a member of the group, or at least close to them. In my example about surfing movies, the producer would probably be a surfer him/her self who also has a knack for cinematography. Maybe the first product release is a compilation of the surfer's old movies, featuring a bunch of friends.

Finally, I wasn't suggesting that this was the path you should take. I was simply explaining what I meant by a niche market. In these small market segments, you're almost always stuck self-distributing. This may not be an approach that works for you. I have made enough money on ventures like this to pay for lots of equipment, but I would have trouble building a self-supporting business around it.

Doug
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Old 06-15-2008, 11:46 AM   #36
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oakstreetphotovideo what do you mean by

Quote:
you're almost always stuck self-distributing
i hope you dont mean that we dont get distributors for our niche made movies????


well every one thanks a lot for guiding me till now regards
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Old 06-15-2008, 01:12 PM   #37
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i hope you dont mean that we dont get distributors for our niche made movies????
That is exactly what I mean, unless your niche market is very large a distributor will not be interested in it.
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Old 06-15-2008, 01:45 PM   #38
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It is not possible to tell you how to 'stair step' your way to a blockbuster film. If there was a formula, everyone would try do it and the industry would be worse for it.

What you have to do initially is have a good story. All the violence and nudity in the world won't make your movie good if there is no story. Pornography is nudity with no purpose, no story, no substance and consequently, no respect.

When you say the U.S. loves movies with sex and violence, you speak in such general terms that it seems that you might think that this is all you need for a good film. It's not. So the last thing you want to do is just put sex and violence into a movie and try to sell it to a western audience. I think you will find quickly that this is not enough.

Also, since you are from Pakistan, you also have to remember that the cultural differences and cultural misunderstandings also take part in how you interpret the tastes of western audiences. Nothing is so cut and dried that you can say: American audiences like sex and violence, therefore all I need to do is put this in a movie. Again there is no formula.

You also have to recognize the draw that certain actors have. Remember if lots of girls want to see Matt Damon, more people are drawn to the film whether there is violence and sex or not. An example is Ocean's Eleven.

The best thing you can do is have a good story and tell it well. Western audiences will give almost any story a first look. Either it has what it takes to sell or it doesn't. If it doesn't, its all over.

Movies get banned when they cross the line of 'good taste'. What 'good taste' is, is relative and already touched upon here by oakstreetphotvideo. Even if it appears that this is the common point in western movies, remember that there are many blockbuster films that don't focus on sex and violence that do well. It is much harder to define 'cool' when speaking of filmmaking.

It will not matter if your film has action, blood, revenge, sex,nudity,and violence. No one will care if the story is not up to par. They will find something else to watch.

-- spinner
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Old 06-15-2008, 03:22 PM   #39
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I really came to this thread to late. It seems everyone got all serious and there are no more jokes left to be made.

But as has been stated over and over again in different ways. Make a great story and it won't matter if you have violence, sex, or nudity. That being said, as directorik's list pointed out, most great stories come with some sort of violence in them.
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Old 06-15-2008, 05:33 PM   #40
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I really came to this thread to late. It seems everyone got all serious and there are no more jokes left to be made.
A thread without a joke from Pink Guy is a thread hardly worth reading.....
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Old 06-15-2008, 05:33 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clive View Post
Thanks Doug, well summed up

I've avoided commenting, partly because I don't like being nagged... but also because I don't like producers who load their films with sex and violence in order to make sales.

I'm not anti-sex or violence in films, I just like it to be an essential part of the story.

It strikes me as cynical and exploitative to make films only with a view of $$$$... and, if that's the objective, then hardcore pornography is the most profitable video production industry in the world. So, why bother to do anything else?

There's a graffiti artist called Banksy, his take is this... make things you believe in and success either follows or it doesn't, but fame and money shouldn't be the driving force.

I've another friend in the industry, whose take is: money is attracted to success, not the other way round.

That's my take.

I'd rather be poor and true to the things I believe in; rather than just another media whore.
Oh come on. Looking at what is going to do better in the marketplace before deciding to make a new product is only good business sense. There's absolutely nothing wrong with it unless you decide to make a genre film that you know nothing about.

And to be honest, I don't buy the whole "I'd rather go broke..." bit. The starving artist routine I don't buy. There's a lot of things I could do to go broke including sitting on my butt doing nothing that I would prefer doing than the enormous task of writing/directing/producing/representing a movie, IF there was only the prospect of going broke.

I don't care whether everyone here wants to make films with other people's money that make very little or no money. I say do it. But for everyone who wants to make something that might have a chance at securing a good distribution deal, and more importantly, might be seen by a sizable audience, it is necessary to study what works and what doesn't. Bend the rules, break them, whatever, but to pretend there is not a fairly well-defined hierarchy of what sells and what doesn't is just plain ignorant. I see that everyday, but I also see indies who CLEARLY understand what works and what doesn't, and they have shaped their style and storytelling to a very polished technique... oddly enough about that time name talent want to work with them, producers want to finance them, and they start making money.

And, in line with "making money", I think its pretty clear if we wanted to make a million dollars, we'd all be better off getting an Master's degree and getting a 9-5. Many of us are not cut out for that, but are willing to take a chance on doing what they really love and enjoy for a living, if it has the potential to provide at least enough for us to survive while we do it. But to blindly start spending money after money and shrugging it off when it doesn't pan out because: A) It has no marketability B) It is not incredibly innovative or original and C) It does not have the polish most high end films have, is simply, IMO, a bit mad. Not that mad artists haven't found success in the past, they just usually end up drunken penniless messes by the end of their lives.
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Old 06-15-2008, 07:26 PM   #42
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I think there are a lot of people who feel the way clive does. I buy it.

I've been called a media whore (and I know clive isn't calling me one)
for most of my career by people who really would rather earn a living
doing something non-film related and make movies they deeply believe
in on the side. I have always taken any - legal - job I've been offered.

I have been that cynical, exploititive movie maker, making movies only
with a view of money. I've written TV - something I am not at all interested
in or passionated about - with only money in mind. I have worked on
reality shows - something I have only contempt for - with only money
in mind. And (shock!!) I have made some hardcore porn, too. Back when
the money was great.

But I deeply believe there are a lot of people like clive who would rather go poor.
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Old 06-15-2008, 07:43 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by ad2478 View Post
VPTurner

what is garner industry

...
"Garner" is to aquire or to get. "Industry" is referring to the film industry. I watch many movies a year from all different genres, some to enjoy, some to learn from, others just because the box art and one-line caught my interest. Some movies that I pass over during the year because others grabbed my more immediate attention get Academy Award nominations and awards. Anything that "garners" this type of recognition most definitely deserves my attention as a student of film. "Garner" as a verb in this context means "acquire or deserve by one's efforts or actions".

Some movies that I purchased/watched only after the recognition they received:

Brokeback Mountain
Pan's Labyrinth
No Country for Old Men
There Will Be Blood
Juno
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Old 06-15-2008, 09:29 PM   #44
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spinner

thats wrong check out my first post i have mentioned voilence, sex, and nudity according to the demand of the story..thats an elegation on me :d


lolzz

well i know thats it is the basic thing to have a story.....just was worried that movies like that might be completley banned......{thats was the worry at earlier stage only}







ADEEL AKHTER

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Last edited by ad2478; 06-20-2008 at 06:13 AM.
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Old 06-15-2008, 09:32 PM   #45
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Pink Guy


you are really too late
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