Home Your Ad Here

Go Back   IndieTalk - Indie Film Forum > Tools of the Trade > Cameras

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-03-2017, 02:59 AM   #1
PlatypocalypseNow
Basic Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Australia
Posts: 5
Question 80D & G7 combo - your thoughts?

Hey everyone
I'm looking at investing in a couple of camera's for some projects i've been working to get off the ground. I've already decided on the Camera's i like and i'm thinking about buying both an 80D kit and a G7 Kit since i can pick up the pair of them online for roughly the store-price of the 80D.
The kind of work i need them for are personal projects I've been kicking around for a long while, a couple of sci-fi inspired works and a horror piece, So, typical no/low budget film making (aside from my camera, sound gear and lights) using mostly friends, family and acquaintances.... just good old fashioned cheap cheesy R&G fun.

Rather than sink all of my money it into a single body and 1 or 2 REALLY GOOD lenses i was wondering what others had to say on the idea of "diversifying" ones camera selection this early and renting the higher quality glass when/as needed?

The basic set-up i'm considering is;
Camera (A) - Canon 80D kit (18-55mm)
Camera (B) - Lumix G7 kit (14-42mm) - (film in 4K but downscale to 1080p)
Total cost $1872.
I'm also considering Canon's 50mm F1.8 and Panasonic's 25mmF1.7 as well, unless anybody has some other affordably priced alternatives for me to look into.
If I've gotten this all right however - and please correct me if I'm wrong, that should hopefully give me a set of equivalent focal lengths across the 28-88mm range on both camera's, correct?
In total that should cost me around $2300 which is actually still about $500 less then i was considering spending on a 5DMK3 or GH5 body a month or two ago...

I'd really appreciate any advice or even cautions people have though, if you think I'm overspending on the cameras let me know (though i live in Australia and we always pay more for things) - Or do you i think I may be setting my sights too high and overextending myself by thinking of purchasing 2 camera's at roughly the same time? am i mad? is this reasonable? i don't even know anymore, man!
I know i'll have a bit of a task when it comes to matching up the footage, but i figure i have to learn somewhere, sometime.

Thanks for reading, let me know your thoughts.
PlatypocalypseNow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today   #1A
film guy
Basic Member
 
Posts: 17

 
Old 10-03-2017, 09:48 AM   #2
AcousticAl
Basic Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: South of the Mason-Dixon
Posts: 494
Why do you think you need two cameras, instead of just one?

And if you need two cameras, why are you choosing such mismatched image sensors?
AcousticAl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2017, 06:55 PM   #3
PlatypocalypseNow
Basic Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Australia
Posts: 5
*EDIT* deleted double-posting. original post remains. :LOL:

Thanks for replying AcousticAl

You're right, i don't *need* two camera's - at least not right now anyway - it seems like a reasonable decision to have more than 1 camera to choose from when making my films though, especially if it's cost-effective.
But really, why does anyone have or want or need more than one camera for a production?? it gives you more options with each camera you having running for your shots without necessarily having to film a hundred takes of the same thing, and since i'll be working with mostly people who aren't professional actors - it seems like a good idea to have more than one camera rolling in case i want to cut and paste different angles, maybe one actor has a terrible delivery of a line, but their counterpart had a fantastic reaction -one that i want a clear shot of and want to be able to use, that kind of stuff....

I don't think i understand what you mean by mismatched sensors though - mismatched in what way? colour science? crop ratio? MPs? the 4K capabilities? all of the above?
That's why i was asking about the crop factors and focal lengths - to see if i had my math right and would get a roughly equivalent image size/quality on each camera. I don't need my footage to be exact and perfectly identical, if i can get them even kinda looking alike, i'll be happy - i'm not aiming for any festivals or competitions or anything, just youtube at best right now - so mostly looking to publish on small screens. If i've misunderstood the G7's sensor's capabilities though and/or the maths of the crop factors please tell me lol. I'm not averse to using two of the same camera brand btw, The SL2 is perfectly serviceable, it would meet my B cam requirements for the most part, but it's $300 more expensive than the G7 kit.

Do you think maybe i'd be better off if i do purchase 2 cameras to stick purely with Canon wares?

Last edited by PlatypocalypseNow; 10-05-2017 at 02:58 AM. Reason: Double posted
PlatypocalypseNow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2017, 01:38 PM   #4
WalterB
Basic Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Rotterdam Area, The Netherlands
Posts: 3,354
It makes no sense.

Matching 2 brands of cameras can be a PITA if you have no knowledge of colorgrading.
Your motivation seems to come from 'it's a good deal' instead of a sensible decision.
2 different cameras means you need more lenses or an adapter for the G7.

What you can do it: get them, try which one you like best. Sell the other one. Use that money on lenses or whatever.

The difference: color science, image quality, noise, depth of field. Things you can't fix with lenses and calculations.

Last edited by WalterB; 10-04-2017 at 01:40 PM.
WalterB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2017, 07:34 PM   #5
AcousticAl
Basic Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: South of the Mason-Dixon
Posts: 494
Do you need 4K? I'd guess probably not.

The differences between the two cameras are many: color science, image sensor size (APS-C is larger than Micro 4/3, but your larger sensor here is gathering 1080p while the smaller one does 4K) which means a difference in crop factor for focal lengths... you'll have a hell of a time trying to match them if you're running them on a 2-cam shoot.

If you don't need 4K but you feel like you wanna have two cameras on some shoots, grab a couple of EOS-80D bodies. People like to crap on DSLR nowadays, especially Canon, because they've largely moved on to Canon cinema-series or to BMD or DVX-200 or EVA1... but the 80D is a capable camera that'll make good pictures in the right hands (in the wrong hands, any camera's gonna suck).
AcousticAl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2017, 02:56 AM   #6
PlatypocalypseNow
Basic Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Australia
Posts: 5
Thanks for the input guys, these are the kinds of responses i was looking for

I think my questions may have been misleading however, i'm not interested in both camera's capturing the exact same focal length/camera angle, I'm interested in getting two angles with a roughly similar colour scheme where necessary to provide wide coverage of a scene, i don't want identical focal length for every shot either, or any to be honest, i just need to know if those lenses would give me an equivalent focal range to work with on each camera and find my desired shots.

To be fair though, you guys are absolutely spot on with your assessments otherwise, WalterB - it IS going to be a pain in the butt for me to learn how to properly colour correct footage, but that's no reason for me not to try is it? plus it seems like a handy skill to have under my belt, more and more movies and TV shows use footage from different camera brands these days, it seems a reasonable thing to learn about and practice, even if i end up doing a poor job lol.

And apologies to you, AcousticAl, i wasn't sure what you meant by "mismatched" at all, lol, but i do understand the basic differences between M-4/3rds, APS-C, full-frame etc. and crop factors, and as i said above - i don't need the same focal length for all my shots, i just want to have the same basic range available to me on both camera's while im starting out.
I do understand that each brand has some varying aspects of its manufacture/performance such as Canon's APS-C camera's all having a 1.6x crop factor while Nikon's APS-C has a 1.5x and the M4-3rds all crop the image at 2x, i get that and how each camera's sensor as a result of it's manufacture/additional hardware has other factors inherent to it, different sensors being made by different companies resulting in different levels of colour saturation, and how much light reaches through the optics to hit the sensor; that as a result of the sensor size each body uses a different mount/adapter unit/flange to interact with the glass wares, etc.

But to answer why i'm considering two such "mismatched" sensors - i must doff my hat to WalterB for hitting the nail on the head - "It's a good deal" - but i also kind of think the G7 would help cover my bases for the present and future, which actually does seem sensible to me as well if it can be done at a fairly affordable price.
You're right though, i don't need 4k right now, 4K has got a bunch of tricks and gimmicks i could find some uses for but i don't *need* 4K and i havent got anything invested in the idea of 4K video production.
PlatypocalypseNow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2017, 11:09 AM   #7
AcousticAl
Basic Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: South of the Mason-Dixon
Posts: 494
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlatypocalypseNow View Post
... i'm not interested in both camera's capturing the exact same focal length/camera angle, I'm interested in getting two angles with a roughly similar colour scheme where necessary to provide wide coverage of a scene, i don't want identical focal length for every shot either, or any to be honest, i just need to know if those lenses would give me an equivalent focal range to work with on each camera and find my desired shots.
This is not about camera bodies. It's about lensing. On a 2-cam shoot, of course there will be two different focal lengths. One will be wide, while the other will cover mediums or closeups. Two G7s can do that, or to 80Ds.

What you should be interested in is both cameras capturing images that cut together as seamlessly as possible. Wanna brush up on your color correction and grading skills? Start with matched cameras, and learn how picture profile settings (and, if applicable, LUTs) impact capture, correction, and grading to get the end result you want. That takes a lot of time and practice to get right, so why intentionally complicate it by shooting 2 cams that take extra work to get somewhat close to each other?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlatypocalypseNow View Post
... more and more movies and TV shows use footage from different camera brands these days...
Specific examples?

Just because it has been done, doesn't mean it's suggested to do it "just because". When GoPro footage or Phantom drone footage creeps in on a major feature, or a 5DmkIII is used against 35mm film for some specialty shots, doesn't mean the filmmakers didn't do a sh*tload of research and hands-on testing to make sure it could be done.

Multi-cam shoots will intentionally be matched whenever possible. When something is used that is of a very different make, it's because that camera was the best option to get a specific shot.

I've been at this for decades. Professionally. And I'll take matched cameras every time.
AcousticAl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-05-2017, 11:35 PM   #8
PlatypocalypseNow
Basic Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Australia
Posts: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcousticAl View Post
This is not about camera bodies. It's about lensing. On a 2-cam shoot, of course there will be two different focal lengths. One will be wide, while the other will cover mediums or closeups. Two G7s can do that, or to 80Ds.

What you should be interested in is both cameras capturing images that cut together as seamlessly as possible. Wanna brush up on your color correction and grading skills? Start with matched cameras, and learn how picture profile settings (and, if applicable, LUTs) impact capture, correction, and grading to get the end result you want. That takes a lot of time and practice to get right, so why intentionally complicate it by shooting 2 cams that take extra work to get somewhat close to each other?
Right - i think that i understand, apologies if it seemed like i was being short with my last post regarding the lenses and focal lengths, just wanted to clarify my own requirements and clear up any misconceptions i may have caused in short-order.
I really appreciate the responses you guys have been giving because as much as i think the 80D and G7 are a great deal and offer a variety of great features, i am just as eager for someone to point me to a more sensible and work-friendly decision - and yeah, i do admit that i have a habit of making things harder for myself, intentionally or otherwise, hence my appreciation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcousticAl View Post
Specific examples?
Gosh off the top of my head it's hard to remember many, so as silly as it might seem i got this list from google by typing in "movies made with DSLR" lol, but yeah it has a list of movies made with exclusively and with a mix of camera bodies, like the Avengers was made using an Arri Alexa and a 5D and a 7D for some shots, Black swan was made with Arri flex 16mm and 5D, Elysium was filmed on a red epic and a 5D,


Quote:
Originally Posted by AcousticAl View Post
Just because it has been done, doesn't mean it's suggested to do it "just because". When GoPro footage or Phantom drone footage creeps in on a major feature, or a 5DmkIII is used against 35mm film for some specialty shots, doesn't mean the filmmakers didn't do a sh*tload of research and hands-on testing to make sure it could be done.

Multi-cam shoots will intentionally be matched whenever possible. When something is used that is of a very different make, it's because that camera was the best option to get a specific shot.

I've been at this for decades. Professionally. And I'll take matched cameras every time.
you are right, again, just because it has been done doesn't mean it would be a good (or simple) idea to emulate, but learning to match footage from two different cameras is clearly a valuable skill to have, even if it is mostly used for stylized and specialty shots - and that would naturally include doing a "Sh*tload" of research and hands-on testing on my part, either way, even if using 2 80D's to begin with, so i just thought, "why not familiarize myself with two different form factors at the same time & early on?" - apparently that's me over reaching and i appreciate the slap-down
And btw, no, i don't intend to try to start filming my next project with an ArriFlex or whatever lol those are just examples i pulled from google of movies made using a variety of camera's that happened to include DSLRs for some shots (or exclusively in the case of one or two stop-motions and indie budget films)

if it's easier to get a more solid and grounded education of the "matching" process by starting out with two already "close" camera's from the same manufacturer though - and if that's your recommendation, i'll take in on board quite happily
I would have to ask though, could the SL2 also serve as an adequate B-cam to an 80D in your opinion? (yes this is my trying to cheap out a bit) or would you specifically and explicitly suggest sticking with 2 80D's so that i can have the exact same level of control on both cameras settings?

Really, thanks again, very helpful advice so far - i can't state that enough
PlatypocalypseNow is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:44 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.


©IndieTalk