Why do commercial film clients Always try to underpay?

Nate North

Nate North

Warning: somewhat of a rant

One of the most aggravating things I face as a content professional is dealing with people who try to value film work around the $10 an hour range.

If you look at professional rates, 1000-2600 a day is pretty standard, and yet I get 60% of clients leaving angry if I won't sign up for 200 hours of work for $50 and a cookie.

Why are people willing to pay a high school dropout construction worker more than someone that went through 4 years of film school and invested 100k?

I made a commercial for a company that they put on national television once and charged them 1k. They told me they had paid $25,000 for the sign on the front of their building, which took 3 guys a day to put up, and then insinuated that I had overcharged them at a grand for a week.

Why do people look down on our profession? Why is it ok to pay any moron off the street 20k for unskilled labor, and unthinkable to pay a filmmaker scale wage?

Why do people see advertising as .1% of their budget?

I've never heard of someone asking a carpenter to work for 10% scale. Unthinkable.
 
Sort by date Sort by votes
There is a caste system though. Its just the truth. Its not an established system, but its something everyone is guilty of.

Peoples identities are often formed based on their professions. Like someone who becomes a doctor is known as a doctor, a factory worker is often looked down on as someone who wasn't smart enough for college, military are often judged based on experiences with other military personnel. Just a fact of life.

Personally, I'm against this way of thinking. I think more of people based on what they do other than work. I've been a soldier, a factory worker, an IT professional, a mechanic, but thats not how I define myself. I'm a guy with a lot of interests. Things like driving racecars, and writing, making video games and 3d animations.

Heres something I hate. I meet a new person, lets just say its a woman, and I ask her to tell me about herself. Her response is something like, "well I'm an associate manager with such and whatevers super business place" Which is a business I just made up. Then she says she likes music and having fun with her friends. In my head I'm like "really? Thats your image? You define yourself based on the position you hold at your office?" but what comes out of my mouth of course is, "thats interesting" when its actually anything but. I know everyone has their own goals and life expectations, but if I didn't have anything better to tell anyone than "I'm a field technician for a computer company." I would probably kill myself. Right after saying that, I would say "hmmm, well I guess I dont have anything to live for." and nonchalantly blow my brains out in the middle of the restaurant so I could at least be remembered as the worst first date in history.

Actually, this gives me an idea for a film. lol
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
I've been tough on Nate in the past, told him he was full of cr@p. But he thinks BIG! And that's cool. And I too have had an amazingly lousy day. But man, not as bad as Nate's! So here's my rant, Nate, education actually IS a strong predictor of higher income levels. It also predicts a healthier, happier, longer life. But, it doesn't guarantee them. Here's the thing though Nate, you're trying to make it in the arts! All bets are off dude. We all know this. We're the moths that fly to the flame. We're fucked, but at the same time golden. What do you want to do? Make movies or write software code that tells a robot arm how much glue to spray on a circuit board that goes in microwave oven? Make the damn movie Nate!
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
brianluce said:
Nate, education actually IS a strong predictor of higher income levels. It also predicts a healthier, happier, longer life. But, it doesn't guarantee them. Here's the thing though Nate, you're trying to make it in the arts! All bets are off dude. We all know this. We're the moths that fly to the flame. We're fucked, but at the same time golden. What do you want to do? Make movies or write software code that tells a robot arm how much glue to spray on a circuit board that goes in microwave oven? Make the damn movie Nate!
Click to expand...

I very much agree with Brian.

I have no problem with being asked to work cheaply. It's simply upto me to say no but if I get attitude for it then that's just lame and an indication that I'm not dealing with a professional.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
SinEater said:
Interesting. I know a local cable company that produces it's own commercials for cheap by subsidizing the cost with air time income. It's also how most local TV stations operate.
Click to expand...

Its Comcast. The commercial would only air local (meaning within the county) They only refer companies that will produce commercials and not produce them themselves. At best for me, they forwarded me a list of their requirements in reguards to what they accept. This is why they would rather me go for the 800 dollar production company. The ads would air on networks such as Food/travel bunch or Bravo ect.

The local tv station is a separate channel here. I can do whatever with them but they don 't do advertising.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
brianluce said:
I've been tough on Nate in the past, told him he was full of cr@p. But he thinks BIG! And that's cool. And I too have had an amazingly lousy day. But man, not as bad as Nate's! So here's my rant, Nate, education actually IS a strong predictor of higher income levels. It also predicts a healthier, happier, longer life. But, it doesn't guarantee them. Here's the thing though Nate, you're trying to make it in the arts! All bets are off dude. We all know this. We're the moths that fly to the flame. We're fucked, but at the same time golden. What do you want to do? Make movies or write software code that tells a robot arm how much glue to spray on a circuit board that goes in microwave oven? Make the damn movie Nate!
Click to expand...


totally agree


if art was easy and made tons of money, everyone would be doing it.


I wonder if the big name people have the same problem with higher numbers. like Michael Bay comes home, grabbs a glass of bourbon and slumps down on his exploding couch and says "They must think anyone can make transformers.... only 200 million in the budget. I'm gonna have to tell my Lamborghini if I ever want to get the hydrofoil yacht on this kind of pay!"
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
trueindie said:
so... there's no answer to why we get paid so little??? :D
Click to expand...

There is an answer... and whether any of us like it or not, it's the obvious one: if you aren't getting paid serious rates it's because you either aren't doing serious work or you're not working with serious people.

I'm one of those guys that Nate's harpin' about in his post... no film education, came into this industry from Graphic Design (Illustration) and skipped the line on up to camera department in less than a year because of the people that I learned from and became friends with. I don't take offense to what he's saying, but I also agree with CamVader and TheNoob.

Non-union, self-educated.... Two years in I was making 750/day MINIMUM to shoot or DIT, my average rate was 1200/day JUST to shoot, not to bring gear, not to do anything else. Just to walk onto a set and do my job as a department head. Even on low budget jobs, I was still getting my minimum, and they happily paid it.

The reasons stand through all industries, which are the people who want the good or great results know the value of such, and will pay for it.

Would you give your money to someone who hasn't a single large broadcast credit or a referral from someone who's twenty years in? If I were spending one-thousand dollars a day to hire someone, I'm going to get someone incredible.. and, if I'm going to spend a few hundred, then almost any ol' chap might do.

I still get my rate on broadcast jobs, but I've also begun to try and make the full-on shift to Director for Hire, which means less money and less opportunities. Right now, I'm okay with taking tids and bits for people to help build new contacts and relationships. Particularly, I'll talk to EP's and Producers and give THEM the insane rates so that they have me in mind.

I just don't think there's a secret to it: if you want to get paid serious rates do serious work and align yourself with serious people in this industry.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Kholi said:
I just don't think there's a secret to it: if you want to get paid serious rates do serious work and align yourself with serious people in this industry.
Click to expand...

I've observed the second part to be particularly true. Politics. I know a commercial director who makes 14k/day, and he doesn't really know that much -- but man is he good in a room.

It must be the greatest skill in life. For sure it's better than intelligence.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
brianluce said:
I've observed the second part to be particularly true. Politics. I know a commercial director who makes 14k/day, and he doesn't really know that much -- but man is he good in a room.

It must be the greatest skill in life. For sure it's better than intelligence.
Click to expand...

And 14K a day is NOTHING compared to what major directors get per day.

20K-30K Toyota commercials

50K+ Nike ads

Goes on

My rate's chump change in comparison to what my older friends get. They're working at ten times what I get, minimums. I'm plankton... the "low budget" alternative.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0 Downvote
Kholi said:
There is an answer... and whether any of us like it or not, it's the obvious one: if you aren't getting paid serious rates it's because you either aren't doing serious work or you're not working with serious people.

I'm one of those guys that Nate's harpin' about in his post... no film education, came into this industry from Graphic Design (Illustration) and skipped the line on up to camera department in less than a year because of the people that I learned from and became friends with. I don't take offense to what he's saying, but I also agree with CamVader and TheNoob.

Non-union, self-educated.... Two years in I was making 750/day MINIMUM to shoot or DIT, my average rate was 1200/day JUST to shoot, not to bring gear, not to do anything else. Just to walk onto a set and do my job as a department head. Even on low budget jobs, I was still getting my minimum, and they happily paid it.

The reasons stand through all industries, which are the people who want the good or great results know the value of such, and will pay for it.

Would you give your money to someone who hasn't a single large broadcast credit or a referral from someone who's twenty years in? If I were spending one-thousand dollars a day to hire someone, I'm going to get someone incredible.. and, if I'm going to spend a few hundred, then almost any ol' chap might do.

I still get my rate on broadcast jobs, but I've also begun to try and make the full-on shift to Director for Hire, which means less money and less opportunities. Right now, I'm okay with taking tids and bits for people to help build new contacts and relationships. Particularly, I'll talk to EP's and Producers and give THEM the insane rates so that they have me in mind.

I just don't think there's a secret to it: if you want to get paid serious rates do serious work and align yourself with serious people in this industry.
Click to expand...


Well put, sir. Self educated, represent!
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
We're living in an economy with a "Global Economy" mentality. Do you realize that postproduction houses are vanishing because even the studios are doing in-house editing and post work? Independent producers are editing their projects on their own computers.

CGI and 3D animationn can be done way cheaper in India, China, and Russia by people willing to work for way less and they send you footage over the Internet. Places like guru.com put producers and illustrators, animators, DPs, Editors all together where the executive producer gives their budget and whoever can work withing that budget wins the job?

If you can't cut your prices to compete in todays market, you won't survive.

I am one of those Executive Producers going to Guru.com next year to give my budget and list the work I need and award the project to whoever meets my budget. Everyone is going to have to do with less. I took a big pay cut this year, which is why I have to live off of 99 cents pizza, lose weight, and go without probiotics for my ulser.

Only 2% of the population are not making sacrifices because they are profiting over all of this and they control 98% of the world's wealth.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top