Sound recording with limited kit

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gorillaonabike

So... I'm now a professional film maker (yay!) with a small, corporate customer list. I'm marketing like crazy, am enjoying every minute of it, have made more money than I thought I would, although I wasn't very optimistic but still have this crazy, creative streak in me.

One thing I've always wanted to do is to shoot an opera, albeit a limited one. E.g. an opera without a full orchestra and to attempt to commercialise it.

Problem: I don't have the kit and want to attempt this on the cheap. My sound kitlist is:

- Mkh416 or ECM 674 (I find the ECM better if I need to focus on, say, something like birdsong).
- Sound devices mixer. Cheap one with a couple of XLRs
- Small mixer, somewhere I think. Something with lots of dials on but would have to dig it out.
- Recorder - Something Zoomy.
- The usual bits and pieces (booms etc...)
- Post software: I'd need to get some Logic Pro but could potentially farm out this element to someeone.
- Other stuff which is irrelevant like lavs etc...

I have a little experience of micing up a small, group. E.g. a guitarist with both a mic on the guitarist plus a pickup. However, I've never micced up an orchestra.

Dialogue is not an issue but obviously, music and singing is so I wanted to ask your opinion. Using this very limited setup, how would you record a small orchestra and singers?
 
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I would buy some Samson C02S... connect them trough a something like a ZOOM F8...... or record a stereo with your zoom from that Cheap mixer ...the one with a couple of XLRs. It al depends on the budget.... Samson C02S are cheap... but good.
 
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Rent! Rent!! RENT!!!


It's better that you rent quality gear than buying cheap gear. That is what I do if the needed tools are not already in my kit.

You probably want to go with cardioids over shotguns. As referenced in one of the above videos (part 4) an XY configuration would probably be your best bet for optimum sound on a limited budget. It will have the fewest chances of combing and phase cancellation and for that reason will be easier to control during audio post.

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Make sure that they are matching mics. If you use two different mics it can get weird sounding. At the very least be sure that the polar patterns match.


Oh, yeah… If you can get it right behind and above the conductor, pointed slightly down, you will catch his/her perspective.
 
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The Samson C02S get some good reviews from Curtis Judd. Sounded good t over my Tannoy Mercury M20. Looking forward to test them in the field. Alcove gives good advice and has more experience than me... I would go for his advice.
 
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I would hope that he would rent something a little better than Samson mics. Preferably something like the Audio-Technica AT4053b or the Sennheiser MKH 50 P48.


And the M2's are not studio reference monitors, they are low end consumer speakers, so the sound is hyped by design to make things sound better (added highs & lows, etc.); everything will sound better than if heard on professional reference monitors.
 
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Astonishing that it can be recorded on just two mics. Last time around, I recorded a small, acoustic group micing up each individual instrument.

I could literally run the signals through my SD mixer and run it into a Zoom H5N! That's astonishing! And sticking the mics behind the conductor's fantastic. And renting a couple of Sennheisers is a good idea. Will sound great.
 
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gorillaonabike said:
Astonishing that it can be recorded on just two mics. Last time around, I recorded a small, acoustic group micing up each individual instrument.
Click to expand...

Two different types of recording. With a "band" type of situation we are used to the close mic-ed "studio" sound. For orchestral and choral work it is the sonic interaction with the sonic space that is important. Now, audio types being the control freaks that we are, will always use additional mics if we can, but for orchestral recording it's big jump from two or four primary mics to grab the full orchestra to using the primary mics plus a mic or two for every individual section - a dozen at the very least. And these are just to enhance the "group" mix. Then you get to the sound stage, baffled, intensely mic-ed film score recording method.
 
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Alcove Audio said:
That is what I meant by matching mics. A "Matched Pair" to deep audio types like myself means sequential serial numbers.
Click to expand...


Right. However, I always thought a real "matched pair" meant that the manufacturer takes two mics of the same model, and then runs a test tone through them to make sure that they do indeed "match", since even mics made on the same day could be slightly different, defective, etc. I could see consecutive serial numbers being an easy way to sorta do this... but I was always under the impression that "matched" meant tested as well. I'm pretty sure that's what the guys at Charter Oak do, and other high end makers. I'm also a professional audio guy, btw.
 
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Kaiborg said:
Right. However, I always thought a real "matched pair" meant that the manufacturer takes two mics of the same model, and then runs a test tone through them to make sure that they do indeed "match", since even mics made on the same day could be slightly different, defective, etc. I could see consecutive serial numbers being an easy way to sorta do this... but I was always under the impression that "matched" meant tested as well. I'm pretty sure that's what the guys at Charter Oak do, and other high end makers. I'm also a professional audio guy, btw.
Click to expand...

You are correct. Truly "matched" mics are tested to high tolerances by (usually) the manufacturer. Selecting sequential serial numbers assures that they are (hopefully) really close to begin with. This is more prevalent with very high end mics, as they still tend to be more handmade than prosumer and low and mid- priced professional gear. However, in the new millennium the precursor parts are closer to "identical" than ever in the past due to more stringent manufacturing and quality controls, so sequential serial numbered mics are generally very, very close to begin with these days.

Most of the folks here are not audiophiles; in fact, the bulk of them are completely audio-ignorant despite my best efforts. I felt the the above information was superfluous to people who feel that an Audio Technica ATR6550 plugged directly into and mounted directly onto a DSLR camera is a vast improvement in sound quality.
 
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