Community Project

My greatest regret, during my time on IndieTalk, has been my failure to get a community project off the ground. We came pretty close with the organ lottery project, but it never quite worked out. The past few days has seen a new member trying to get another community project off the ground, but is, I suspect, going to fall into a number of inevitable traps.

I am currently studying for the final exams of my academic career (*sob*) so am just sitting in libraries all day, every day. I'd like something to break it up a little bit (in addition to the couple of projects I am, slowly, working on). So I've come up with a new way to do a community project.

If you would like to participate in this project as a director (or in a shooting capacity), I need the following information out of you:

What actors are at your disposal? [i.e. two men and a woman]
What locations are at your disposal? [i.e. a house, a bar, an abandoned quarry]
Can you record decent quality sound? [i.e. yes]

Please be conservative with your responses. In order for this project to be realistic and work, I need to be sure that people can (and will) shoot their scenes in the allocated manner.

Once I have a bunch of participants, I will go away and write a short script that incorporates these various shooting units into a single coherent story. I will ensure that no member has more than a maximum of two days shooting (though generally will try and keep it to what can be done in a single day). If you cannot record decent quality sound, I will give you no dialogue to shoot. Everything will be kept as simple as possible (within the constraints of a very tricky project!) so that we have the maximum chance of success.

Additionally, if you are not willing to direct (or arrange the production of) a shooting unit, there are loads of other roles that are required:

Composer
Editor - individual units should edit their scenes but a central editor will put it all together and try and ensure that the editing matches throughout.
Post-sound
VFX - will not be VFX heavy, but we can incorporate some if there's someone who can supply the talent.
Marketing - with so many cooks, would be great to have someone responsible for pushing the film.

In order to make this attempt as successful as possible, I will only accept forum regulars into the scheme. New members (and I'm talking people who've only been around a few weeks) are welcome to input and help out, but it is of paramount importance that I know people will stick around and see their unit through to completion.

The deadline for signing up is 18th April 2014, giving people two weeks, after which we will allocate two months (and a bit) to complete production of your scenes, meaning a shooting deadline of 30th June 2014. As I have said, should be no more than a day of filming over the course of two months, so if you can't commit to that then please don't!

I really hope this works, and I think it can. Let me know if you have any thoughts and get signing up!

Current units:
David.rhsc (San Francisco, USA)
cheeseandachallenge (Wellington, New Zealand)
Cracker Funk (Richmond, USA)
wheatgrinder
Flicker Pictures (Boston, USA)
mad_hatter (Birmingham, England)
Dreadylocks (Omaha, USA)
Lucky Hardwood (New Orleans, USA)
ChimpPhobiaFilms (Ohio, USA)

Fence-sitting-maybe-merchants:
WalterB
Dreadylocks
sfoster
mad_hatter
ChimpPhobiaFilms
ItDonnedOnMe
jax_rox
Flicker Pictures

Music team
JoshL
mike mcguill

Sound team
mike mcguill

Sound maybes
AudioPostExpert
Alcove Audio

Marketing maybes
RayW

And remember to fill in this form if you want to have a shooting unit in the film!

(Of course, if you're local to an existing unit, why not team up?)
 
Last edited:
marketing begins with genre and subject matter
+1

It really does.

At another forum I post at I reviewed some data from just six months ago and was surprised at the change.

2014%252004%252003%2520Change%2520in%2520Avg%2520Gross%2520per%2520Film%2520per%2520Genre.png

(Data is from the-numbers.com)

That's quite an industry drop, across the board.
Hope it's seasonal.
Can't wait to see what the YoY changes are.
 
Last edited:
I'm like NickClapper in that I've been part of this online community for quite some time and would at some stage like to contribute and help out on a community project. Ideally I would like to take the roles of Supervising Sound Editor/Sound Designer and Re-Recording Mixer. However, the first role particularly is very time consuming and it's difficult for me to give a definite commitment. Even only taking the role of Re-Recording Mixer is likely to be a tricky job, due to the variation of equipment/styles/abilities of the different filming units. Having said this, unless I'm working on a particularly high pressure project (which is unfortunately quite common), I might/should be able to squeeze in the role of at least Re-Recording Mixer.

I'm sorry that I can't definitely commit to either role at this stage and would completely understand if NickClapper/the community decides that makes me unsuitable/ineligible to take part.

If I had any actual experience marketing a film I'd be all over this opportunity.

With so many different actors, directors, styles and equipment it's going to be at least doubly difficult to create a cohesive, engaging and particularly good short film, both aesthetically and technically. This does NOT mean that if involved I wouldn't be giving this project my best efforts (my professional pride would not allow anything else) but it does mean that regardless of your actual practical experience Ray, I for one would like to see you "give it a go" and put all the knowledge you've built up and shared with this community to practical use! If you don't achieve as much as you hope it's not the end of the world but you would have gained some practical experience of marketing and of being part of a filmmaking team, which is valuable in it's own right. If it worries you, maybe you could work with/under someone else, if there's anyone with more practical experience who volunteers.

G
 
Good to see so many 'Maybes'! As I said in the original post, as long as you can work it out in the next couple of weeks, then I don't need a firm commitment until then.

Do you have any idea what you plan to write yet? A genre even?

I have a few ideas circling around, but nothing fixed.

As for genre, I want to keep this as simple as possible. I'm going to steer away from fantasy/sci-fi and head for something which I believe anyone can achieve, and where we'll be able to adequately match the footage.

But by all means throw out suggestions and ideas. I think this project will only come to fruition if I'm relatively dictatorial about the final script, but I'm certainly open to suggestions (in fact, I've already been sent some, which is great!) at this point. I will try and write something that is to most people's tastes.

If I had any actual experience marketing a film I'd be all over this opportunity.
However, I honestly don't know how to effectively spend any marketing time and effort or budget.

There won't be a marketing budget! When I talk about marketing, I'm talking about putting together a possible promo pack, sending out some press releases to film sites, looking for festival fee waivers...etc.

I thought it might be a fun opportunity to try some practical no-budget marketing and see whether any important lessons can be learnt.

As APE says, this movie won't be perfect - that's just the nature of the beast - we just want to play to its niche/USP of being created across the globe via an internet forum.

I'm like NickClapper in that I've been part of this online community for quite some time and would at some stage like to contribute and help out on a community project. Ideally I would like to take the roles of Supervising Sound Editor/Sound Designer and Re-Recording Mixer. However, the first role particularly is very time consuming and it's difficult for me to give a definite commitment. Even only taking the role of Re-Recording Mixer is likely to be a tricky job, due to the variation of equipment/styles/abilities of the different filming units. Having said this, unless I'm working on a particularly high pressure project (which is unfortunately quite common), I might/should be able to squeeze in the role of at least Re-Recording Mixer.

Hopefully we'll have some other sound guys onboard and maybe you could liaise with them and project manage parts if you don't have the time to work on it yourself?
 
How would you do it? Interview people through the process?


I'd help if I could, though my schedule is pretty inconsistent, so whether I'd be available regularly enough is another question (I can commit to shooting of the narrative, as long as I'm given enough time to plan and free a date or two up)
 
Last edited:
Okay, I'll give this a circumspect consider and will balance my real life time constraints against the agreed upon project when something tangible jells.

Oh, and I sh!t you not - the BTS, interviews, and DVD extras are more valuable than the film itself.

Also, my 2ยข on constructing a multinational film project is to consider a story like 'Contagion' where there are a lot of isolated characters in contact with the real world and each other via news media, phone, and internet.
Very little face to face among groups of characters - since that'd be cost prohibitively impractical.
Just an idea.

As far as genres go: the cheapest SciFi to make are clone and time travel stories, the cheapest horror stories are ghost stories.
Thrillers, especially crime thrillers, also market well. Something like 'Snatch' might be good.
Action and adventure are gonna cost too much, but if you insist - gun fights are cheaper than fist fights.
For the love of God, don't waste time on a drama.
And don't waste non-existant budget on period pieces and super-set building. :rolleyes:
 
Hopefully we'll have some other sound guys onboard and maybe you could liaise with them and project manage parts if you don't have the time to work on it yourself?

Liasing and project managing the audio-post is pretty much an accurate description of the role of Supervising Sound Editor! At the moment we don't yet know which genre the film will be, it's settings/locations or it's duration, which means I can't even vaguely guess how much work/time will be required. Also, we don't yet know when post-production is going to start or how long picture editing will take. Not knowing when the audio post will start or how long it will take is obviously one of the main reasons I can't definitely commit at this stage, because whatever role/roles I take on will have to fit around (or possibly alongside) the professional engagements I have (or will have).

Once the script is complete, that will give me at least a vague indication of the amount of audio post time required and therefore a better idea of how feasible taking on one or more audio post roles will be.

G
 
Oh, and I sh!t you not - the BTS, interviews, and DVD extras are more valuable than the film itself.

Certainly one of the main reasons I would want to do this is for the resource it could provide, which could be absolutely invaluable, particularly in regards to audio post production! BTS/extras rarely mention sound and even when they do, it's usually just a few sentences on the audio philosophy and a bit of footage of some ADR/Foley/SFX recording. This maybe vaguely interesting to the public and provide a very small amount of info for aspiring filmmakers but I've never seen anything which documents an actual audio-post process itself. A BTS video wouldn't be practical for this, some interviews would help but what I'd really like to see is maybe a sub-forum on IndieTalk for the film with a sub-sub-forum for audio post where discussions can be public. Open, uncensored discussions between the director and Sound Designer/Supervising Sound Editor and between the Supervising Sound Editor and the audio post team members, as well as the posting of things like Foley spotting lists, ADR Cue sheets, delivery and deliverables (to, from and between the audio post team) mix comments/corrections and of course some from each team member on their individual role, what their job entailed, what they did and why. Very few no/lo budget filmmakers have any idea what sound design or a professional audio post workflow even is, let alone how (or why) to implement it with a tiny budget!

G
 
I mean everyone could bring together BTS footage, and one of us could edit it together (and I was saying I'd be very willing to).

This is a really good idea- if you fancied taking on the organising of that then I think that'd be great.

Hopefully it'd be as simple as people recording decent BTS on set, and interviews with themselves/their crew, and then assembling it into a doc. Would work brilliantly as a companion piece and would almost certainly be more successful than the actual film!

Certainly easier to market...

As far as genres go: the cheapest SciFi to make are clone and time travel stories, the cheapest horror stories are ghost stories.
Thrillers, especially crime thrillers, also market well. Something like 'Snatch' might be good.
Action and adventure are gonna cost too much, but if you insist - gun fights are cheaper than fist fights.
For the love of God, don't waste time on a drama.
And don't waste non-existant budget on period pieces and super-set building. :rolleyes:

Your evaluations are good but I do wonder whether they're slightly skewed by the fact that you're looking at profit-making films. I wonder, if you analysed shorts that have been successful at festivals and online, whether you'd get the same generic distinctions.

Contagion was actually my go-to reference when I started thinking about how this could be done. I am certainly leaning towards a tense thriller which utilises the unique global aspect of this project (hence why it'd be great to get as many different countries, accents and languages involved).

Once the script is complete, that will give me at least a vague indication of the amount of audio post time required and therefore a better idea of how feasible taking on one or more audio post roles will be.

Absolutely, that's very sensible. I am going to try and craft the script in a way that makes it as easy as possible for this to actually come to fruition, and that includes trying to make post a reasonable experience.

Making a BTS doc that properly captures the audio-post process would be great- I've certainly not seen anything that goes into detail about how/what filmmakers can do in order to facilitate the post work, nor one that goes into any great depth about what that process entails.
 
I've certainly not seen anything that goes into detail about how/what filmmakers can do in order to facilitate the post work, nor one that goes into any great depth about what that process entails.

Exactly! Although, I'm not sure a BTS doc is the best or most practical format. For example, I don't own a decent video camera and even if I did, I work in a darkened room (with the film being projected) and seeing the actual detail of the precise tools I'm using and how I'm using them would be boring to watch and not applicable to most no budget indie filmmakers anyway. I believe it's the process which would be invaluable.

For example, as the sound designer I would want to see a near final draft of the script, well before the shot list is finalised. I would make comments/suggestions which will allow sound design to be employed more effectively come post-production. This is important for any kind of drama but especially so for thrillers/psychological thrillers where sound design is one of the most, if not the most powerful tool for creating tension, suspense, shape, pace, etc. The old sound saying; "audio-post starts with the script" is why well budgeted commercial features commonly employ the sound designer in the very early stages of pre-production, rather than in the early stages of post-production. It allows sound to be a collaborator rather than a sort of bolt on addition to an otherwise already finished film, which is more like slavery than collaboration! :) You'll be surprised/amazed at the difference this approach will make to the finished film! The best format for this kind of info/discussion would IMHO be a forum thread rather than a BTS doco.

G
 
What about detailing the audio process though a commentary track?

In terms of length, if each unit is committing to a 1 or 2 day shoot and working at a typical ULB feature pace then we can expect 3-6 pages per day, faster if folks are going simplified on the lighting, slower of the pages are complex. A 7 page day is brutal even with the most basic of setups.
 
Last edited:
What about detailing the audio process though a commentary track?

Possibly, but you're only going to get a snapshot this way, rather than the actual process. Using my example above; Nick could post his draft script in a new thread, I could make various suggestions in a reply to the post. Nick would then post a new script and readers of the thread will be able to see which suggestions he's implemented or modified and then implemented and which he's decided to ignore and how my suggestions (as sound designer) have influenced the shot list. To a reader of the thread, my suggestions which Nick decides not to use are just as potentially useful/important as those he does use because they might work better and/or stimulate an idea for the reader's own script/film. I think it would also be useful for readers to see the development of the other interactions between director and sound designer and between the sound designer/supervising sound editor and the rest of the audio post team, including the composer. While there are plenty of BTS docos and articles on the production process and even on specific crafts in the production process (including production sound recording) and for some other crafts such as picture editing. There's really nothing I know of for the process of sound, which is a particular shame as sound and it's power as a filmmaking tool is by far the weakest area of the vast majority of low/micro budget filmmakers.

G
 
Sorry, not as mutually exclusive to the pre-pro online journal (forum thread if you will), but in addition to. Director, editor, DP commentaries are pretty common, and iirc there might be some out there from the sound perspective but none come to mind.

Basically gives the supervisor/designer perspective on the finished work, the process, point out the subtle items in the mix that would only be heard subconsciously otherwise, and so on. I think with both that and the thread/journal one would get a pretty good/detailed overview.

Interestingly, this could/should be done with other departments as well, if we have the resources. For example someone working with Nick to determine art design then working with the shooting units to keep them on a similar page. Also with the camera language and lighting.

Maybe that is a bridge to far?

Also, the sound commentary could demonstrate what other choices might have sounded like, and explain why one over the other.
 
Also, my 2ยข on constructing a multinational film project is to consider a story like 'Contagion' where there are a lot of isolated characters in contact with the real world and each other via news media, phone, and internet.
Very little face to face among groups of characters - since that'd be cost prohibitively impractical.
Just an idea.

I haven't seen Contagion, but my first thought with a project like this was something like World War Z (the book, not the movie) which was a series of short stories presented as an 'oral history of the zombie war.'

Not that I'm suggesting a zombie movie by any means. But the book worked surprisingly well with such an unconventional narrative. There was technically the first person narrative that would introduce the stories (the reporter/editor of the book) but there's nothing to say that one unit couldn't film those fillers. Actuallynow that I'm writing this I kind of remember that idea being discussed in one of the old collab threads...
 
Sorry, not as mutually exclusive to the pre-pro online journal (forum thread if you will), but in addition to. Director, editor, DP commentaries are pretty common, and iirc there might be some out there from the sound perspective but none come to mind.

Interestingly, this could/should be done with other departments as well, if we have the resources.

As an addition to the forum info, that would work. As you say, this could work with other departments too. Those departments which aren't usually covered would be particularly valuable, although there might not be people here on indietalk with any professional experience in some of those crafts.

G
 
Sorry, not as mutually exclusive to the pre-pro online journal (forum thread if you will), but in addition to. Director, editor, DP commentaries are pretty common, and iirc there might be some out there from the sound perspective but none come to mind.

Basically gives the supervisor/designer perspective on the finished work, the process, point out the subtle items in the mix that would only be heard subconsciously otherwise, and so on. I think with both that and the thread/journal one would get a pretty good/detailed overview.

Interestingly, this could/should be done with other departments as well, if we have the resources. For example someone working with Nick to determine art design then working with the shooting units to keep them on a similar page. Also with the camera language and lighting.

Maybe that is a bridge to far?

Also, the sound commentary could demonstrate what other choices might have sounded like, and explain why one over the other.

Ravenous has the composer in the commentary along with the director
 
Back
Top